Chamfering vs flaring/crimping for 9mm?

[IWAC]

Hey, thanks for the reply. I got 2 issues: one, some bullets have a hard time seating; two, with some rounds, the bullet will move if you push it with just a little bit of force. A believe a flaring die and Lee's factory crimp might fix these?

Proper adjustment, according to the instruction sheet included with all die sets may solve your problems. Die sets for handguns all have expanding/flaring dies. RCBS seems to have gone to an "M" style expander, as in 243Win XB's post. They sent me one for my .38/357 die set, and now my Lyman M die just sits. It takes a little bit of adjustment, tho, or trumpet-shaped case mouths are possible. The regular seating/crimp die included in every die set will finish acceptable ammunition, if properly adjusted. For a small percentage of rounds, the Lee FCD might help. Good luck!

 

[Soonerpesek]

but that’s another discussion.

OHHH BOY……!!

 

[AJC1]

I chamfer and debur everything. My die set for 9mm is the rcbs with the two step. You have to expand way to much with a two step to get a trumpet.

 

[Walkalong]

I chamfer and debur everything. My die set for 9mm is the rcbs with the two step. You have to expand way to much with a two step to get a trumpet.

You don't want a trumpet.

 

[lordpaxman]

I got 2 issues: one, some bullets have a hard time seating; two, with some rounds, the bullet will move if you push it with just a little bit of force. A believe a flaring die and Lee's factory crimp might fix these?

What dies are you using and what’s your process? I’ve not heard of a flaring die, but an expander, yes. The expanders typically will expand for the bullet, and put a flare on the case to make it easier to start the bullet. The more recent one’s are of the M style, a stepped expander.
Bullet movement is controlled by neck tension. That’s set by the sizing operation, not the crimping/de-flare step.
Unless a roll crimp is involved I don’t trim/chamfer. On a progressive I set the dies for a 90% coverage on the various case lengths and there may be a few cases that are hard to start but it doesn’t affect neck tension or setback.

 

[Laphroaig]

When I started loading .45acp with a RCBS 3 die set (seat and crimp in one step) with mixed brass I sometimes shaved lead. The problem there is longer brass than what the crimp is adjusted for drives the case into the bullet before fully seated. Before you tell me my dies were adjusted wrong I literally spent hours tinkering with the crimp length, to no avail. As I saw it, I had 3 options:

1) trim all of my brass.
2) chamfer to gain a little wiggle room before the case dug in and shaved
3) crimp in a separate step

I chose #3. But what I am suggesting is that chamfering could be useful if you are having that problem and don't want to add another step to your process, Although chamfering is another step.

 

[9mmepiphany]

My die set for 9mm is the rcbs with the two step. You have to expand way to much with a two step to get a trumpet.

If you're using a M-profile expander and getting a trumpet shape at the case mouth, you have you die set too deep.
The whole point of the second step is to create a "cup" for the base of the bullet to "sit in" while not flaring out to accept the bullet

 

[AJC1]

If you're using a M-profile expander and getting a trumpet shape at the case mouth, you have you die set too deep.
The whole point of the second step is to create a "cup" for the base of the bullet to "sit in" while not flaring out to accept the bullet

Absolutely

 

[AJC1]

You don't want a trumpet.

Correct. If your getting one your probably 2 or three full rotations to much.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

You don't want a trumpet.

How about a Sousaphone?

 

[Walkalong]

How about a Sousaphone?

As long as it helps bullets seat straight, go for it.

 

[ballman6711]

You don't want a trumpet.

I had one. As I was flaring my first .357 of that session I thought it felt awfully difficult. Lowering the ram showed me why, lol!

Turns out I had the die set for .38spcl. Haven't made that mistake since. You really have to have the die way off to get a trumpet.

chris

 

[PO2Hammer]

I never tried it but I believe that seating the bullet without expanding (belling) the case mouth is all but impossible. Accidentally crushed a few cases where mouth was not belled.

I have never chamferred the case mouth

You can seat most jacketed bullets in 9mm (and .38 Super) without expanding, flaring or chamfering with a seating die that matches your bullet profile well. I loaded both those calibers for a while with just the sizing die and a seating die. I was having trouble with a .38/1911 and bullet set back. Skipping the expander cured that problem, and no need for the crimper if you don’t expand/flare.


I now expand and flare very slightly to accommodate a wider range of bullets, and crimp just enough to remove any trace of flare, but my only brass prep is sorting by head stamp.

As the others have pointed out, more flare reduces bullet tension, and I’m no fan of the Lee FCD.

 

[gifbohane]

You can seat most jacketed bullets in 9mm (and .38 Super) without expanding, flaring or chamfering with a seating die that matches your bullet profile well. I loaded both those calibers for a while with just the sizing die and a seating die. I was having trouble with a .38/1911 and bullet set back. Skipping the expander cured that problem, and no need for the crimper if you don’t expand/flare.


I now expand and flare very slightly to accommodate a wider range of bullets, and crimp just enough to remove any trace of flare, but my only brass prep is sorting by head stamp.

As the others have pointed out, more flare reduces bullet tension, and I’m no fan of the Lee FCD.

Interesting.... did not know that. What would be your choice for a 9MM die (decent/expensive one) that would not require belling?

BTW I agree with the "no fan of the Lee FCD" comment. To me it covers up any errors that I might make in my process.
The topic has been beaten to death 100 times here and I still marvel at guys whose opinion I respect still use it.

 

[bullseye308]

I shoot mainly cast and coated in 9mm, and lots of them. I flare the neck just enough for the bullet to sit in by itself then seat and don’t need to crimp them. It’s all in the die setup.
All I use is range pickup brass and none have been measured in decades.

 

[buck460XVR]

Hey, thanks for the reply. I got 2 issues: one, some bullets have a hard time seating; two, with some rounds, the bullet will move if you push it with just a little bit of force. A believe a flaring die and Lee's factory crimp might fix these?

I see two unrelated issues here. In the first, yes a flaring die will make seating the bullet easier. It will not fix the improper neck tension that allows the bullet to move when pushed......nor will the FCD. If you are finding you are getting both, then you may have a problem with bullet size or case length. Improper neck tension could be your sizing die is not sizing the brass enough. . Mixed brass with different wall thicknesses can also show the issues you have. I have yet to be able to seat a bullet in any handgun brass without flaring, and have enough neck tension to properly hold the bullet. I would first sort brass by headstamp and case length and see if any of your issues disappear when your dies are adjusted properly.

 

[PO2Hammer]

Interesting.... did not know that. What would be your choice for a 9MM die (decent/expensive one) that would not require belling?

BTW I agree with the "no fan of the Lee FCD" comment. To me it covers up any errors that I might make in my process.
The topic has been beaten to death 100 times here and I still marvel at guys whose opinion I respect still use it.

My first 9mm die set was the Lee deluxe, nothing but frustration. I replaced the seater with a Redding Comp die, but that was not cheap. It’s all about the shape of the recess in the seating stem. Maybe the plain Redding would do as well.

 

[Show Me]

My first 9mm die set was the Lee deluxe, nothing but frustration. I replaced the seater with a Redding Comp die, but that was not cheap. It’s all about the shape of the recess in the seating stem. Maybe the plain Redding would do as well.

Frustrated with a die set , ok . Don't get it.
I bell my cases just enough to sit the XTP on. Otherwise they will fall off.

 

[AJC1]

Frustrated with a die set , ok . Don't get it.
I bell my cases just enough to sit the XTP on. Otherwise they will fall off.

Having an ill fitting seating stem causes all kinds of frustration and problems. Years ago companies like rcbs and now Hornady make a wide range of stems. Lee does not, so swapping dies fixed the seating stem issue, and one companies universal fit may work better for some than others.

 

[Show Me]

Having an ill fitting seating stem causes all kinds of frustration and problems. Years ago companies like rcbs and now Hornady make a wide range of stems. Lee does not, so swapping dies fixed the seating stem issue, and one companies universal fit may work better for some than others.

I use an assortment of home cast and XTP bullets. Seating stems in my Lee handgun die collection have not made themselves noticed.
What style of bullets cause an issue being pushed in the case and what is the issue exactly, if you don't mind explaning.

 

[LiveLife]

assortment of home cast and XTP bullets ... Lee handgun die ... if you don't mind explaning

Might be I lead a sheltered life.

Lee Precision resolved bullet tilting during seating, bullet tipping during shellplate indexing (When using bullet feeder die) and to a lesser aspect bullet base shaving with lead/coated lead bullets when powder through expander (PTX) transitioned to stepped "M" style PTX now standard on most die sets - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-through-expander.916523/page-4#post-12725787

Picture below shows final production stepped "M" style PTX on the left, pre-production beta test sample stepped PTX in the middle and regular PTX on the right (You can order just the stepped "M" style PTX by calling customer service to see if they have "Square starting" PTX for your caliber):

Distinct "double bulge" of stepped case neck expanding

 

[AJC1]

I use an assortment of home cast and XTP bullets. Seating stems in my Lee handgun die collection have not made themselves noticed.
What style of bullets cause an issue being pushed in the case and what is the issue exactly, if you don't mind explaning.

Most people have issues with round nose bullet profiles. Probably why I skip them entirely for flat point/swc designs.

 

[LiveLife]

Most people have issues with round nose bullet profiles. Probably why I skip them entirely for flat point/swc designs.

Lee's new stepped "M" style powder through expander helps quite a bit to prevent tilting/tipping various nose profile bullets

 

[9mmepiphany]

Having an ill fitting seating stem causes all kinds of frustration and problems. Years ago companies like rcbs and now Hornady make a wide range of stems. Lee does not, so swapping dies fixed the seating stem issue, and one companies universal fit may work better for some than others.

I might have gone a little over board when I started shaving coating when I first started loading coated bullets in .38Spl

1. Trim cases to uniform length; chamfer and bevel case mouth...for uniform expansion and roll crimp
2. Expand with Redding M-profile die...expanding enough so that bullet would stay in case mouth with case inverted
3. Seat with Redding competition die which has 1) a sleeve to correct misalignment, 2) floating ram inside sleeve to maintain alignment, and 3) seating plug which contacts bullet at it ogive.

I don't trim or chamfer cases when loading Xtreme plated bullets, but the combination of the M-die and seater insured that they are very straight

 

[Show Me]

Lee's new stepped "M" style powder through expander helps quite a bit to prevent tilting/tipping various nose profile bullets

I've nothing newer than the 90' so I'm not a good responder but I did order an extra pusher and ground it flat. I think it was in my wadcutter days