Change of feature in Centerpoint scopes sold at Walmart...good, bad or no consequence?

[SamT1]

yes I can tell the difference $69 to $300. the reason why people buy cheaper scopes is cause they don't have the money to buy expensive scopes. people with money just cannot understand that a lot of people do not have that much spare money same way politicians are out of touch. trying to add up what you spent on cheap scopes is like saying you should have paid in full when you bought your house instead of making payments. buying cheaper scopes is almost the same

if you have 10K of extra money to spend on a hunt then you are unlike 90% of guys that have guns and do not have that money. a lot of info given here would be better suited at a country club or goldman sachs board meeting. so if a guy cant buy an expensive scope is he still allowed to buy what he can afford or is he banned from shooting. you saying you never saw all those scopes fail is as unbelievable as all the ones you did say you saw fail. expensive scopes fail and most talk about how good the warranty is because of it

So is Leupold screwing everyone still? Or you simply don't have the money for their stuff? I don't have money and have learned the hard way about buying cheap optics. It's fine to not be able to afford better optics, but you can't bash Leupold because of that. It's not their fault people are willing to pay for their stuff as well as the other companies with good quality optics.

Center point and the other cheapos are the one screwing you I outlined that above. It's the low quality items that are taking advantage of people without money, it's not the good stuff. That applies to lots of things in life.

Besides that in 5 years the center point is worthless, it's the kind of scope that gets left on a gun when you sell it and it adds no value to the gun. The Leupold on the other hand is worth 75% of the original purchase price depending on the model. But you'd probably keep it and move it gun to gun for years. Simple math tells me the Leupold was actually cheaper to own. Leupold probably Carrys more residual value than anything else because they have built that name over time.
.

I believe this whole mess started with someone recommending to save up for a VX1 or something ( that's hardly a rich mans optic) I truly wish when I was a young man that someone would have gave me that advice. You can get layaway at Walmart academy, and others.

 

[salt&battery]

So is Leupold screwing everyone still? Or you simply don't have the money for their stuff? I don't have money and have learned the hard way about buying cheap optics. It's fine to not be able to afford better optics, but you can't bash Leupold because of that. It's not their fault people are willing to pay for their stuff as well as the other companies with good quality optics.

Center point and the other cheapos are the one screwing you I outlined that above. It's the low quality items that are taking advantage of people without money, it's not the good stuff. That applies to lots of things in life.

I believe this whole mess started with someone recommending to save up for a VX1 or something ( that's hardly a rich mans optic) I truly wish when I was a young man that someone would have gave me that advice. You can get layaway at Walmart academy, and others.

if I was a billionaire I would not buy an expensive scope. so using the logic here I say this if you do not have the $4700 MK 8 leupold scope you have a junk scope.
the thread was about a 4x12 x 40 CP for $69. I have 2 they are crystal clear and have held zero for years never failed. I do not know what more I can get out of a scope

 

[CraigC]

yes I can tell the difference $69 to $300. the reason why people buy cheaper scopes is cause they don't have the money to buy expensive scopes. people with money just cannot understand that a lot of people do not have that much spare money same way politicians are out of touch. trying to add up what you spent on cheap scopes is like saying you should have paid in full when you bought your house instead of making payments. buying cheaper scopes is almost the same

if you have 10K of extra money to spend on a hunt then you are unlike 90% of guys that have guns and do not have that money. a lot of info given here would be better suited at a country club or goldman sachs board meeting. so if a guy cant buy an expensive scope is he still allowed to buy what he can afford or is he banned from shooting. you saying you never saw all those scopes fail is as unbelievable as all the ones you did say you saw fail. expensive scopes fail and most talk about how good the warranty is because of it

Gimme a break, dude. This will be a lot more productive discussion if you do two things, don't call those who disagree with you a liar (thank you very much) and dispense with that very large chip on your shoulder. The former should be easy, the latter maybe not.

You assume too much. Yes, I did have quite a few cheap scopes fail and most did so on rimfires. Not witnessed or heard about but personally owned scopes that failed. No, I'm not lying about that and last I counted, it was nine. I can assure that I would not have fallen into a group anyone would call "people with money" at the time I bought those scopes. It was absolutely at a time in my life when I did not have $50 or $100 to throw away, which is exactly what I was doing with those cheap scopes. I had to learn the hard way, which is exactly what I try to save others from in this kind of discussion. You dismiss my comments as elitist but you're barking up the wrong tree with that rhetoric.

Not everyone who buys quality optics or goes on $10,000 hunts does so because they have money just laying around with nowhere else to throw it. Country club? Get over yourself already. Most work for a living, save their money, prioritize and sacrifice things that are less important. Others put it on a credit card and pay it off over time. Some would be amazed at what they could have if they gave up booze and cigarettes.

Now let's get real. I never said that anyone who buys less than a Schmidt & Bender, Swarovski or Zeiss is a loser. I don't own any of those and have never paid more than $500 for a scope. You can get a perfectly serviceable scope starting at $150. That's not a lot to spend on a scope and most people waste that much on other crap every month. I bought my first Leupold 18yrs ago. I was a field tech making about $10/hr. I wanted a good scope for a Ruger #1 so I saved my money until I had enough to get it. Nearly two decades later, the Ruger is gone and the Leupold is now on about its 4th rifle. It went with me to the woods last week.

 

[CraigC]

if I was a billionaire I would not buy an expensive scope. so using the logic here I say this if you do not have the $4700 MK 8 leupold scope you have a junk scope.
the thread was about a 4x12 x 40 CP for $69. I have 2 they are crystal clear and have held zero for years never failed. I do not know what more I can get out of a scope

If you were a billionaire (earned, not winning PowerBall), your perspective would be completely different.

 

[SamT1]

If you were a billionaire (earned, not winning PowerBall), your perspective would be completely different.

That and a M24 would probably be my first purchase if I won the power ball. I'd have feelers out looking while I was paying off my house.

 

[lobo9er]

if you have 10K of extra money to spend on a hunt then you are unlike 90% of guys that have guns and do not have that money. a lot of info given here would be better suited at a country club or goldman sachs board meeting. so if a guy cant buy an expensive scope is he still allowed to buy what he can afford or is he banned from shooting. you saying you never saw all those scopes fail is as unbelievable as all the ones you did say you saw fail. expensive scopes fail and most talk about how good the warranty is because of it

I definitely am not saying that (what is underlined). Buy what you can afford and enjoy it, no shaming. Buying a luepold vx-1 isn't goldmans sachs level buying. Also I'd say most praise Luepold for quality and reassurance of customer service. But again around we go we all like different stuff.

2nd on the M24, probably 2.

 

[LoonWulf]

Meh L96.....

I think were going beyond the basic discussion lol. I see a couple things Id like to chime in on. Yes generally cheal scopes dont add anything to the value of a firearm at sale, but they can be a nice incentive for guys who, unlike most of us on the boards, just wanna go blast stuff NOW!. When ive sold guns with scopes I usually say rifle is X$ and you can have the scope and rings for $ more. Its worked out well for me sofar. Even if they dont take the scope, tossed on ebay I've never actually lost much money on a scope. Case in point, i just sold a Simmons 6.5-20x50 for more than I originally paid for it 6 years ago. These scopes were and still are an excellent value, much like the CP scopes we talked about earlier.

The other thing i thought about, is that if we go beyond what we think is a good value in anything perhaps were NOT making a good financial decision. Reasoning being, if we say I want a scope that holds zero, is clear enough to see my target, works good in most lighting, and has what the functioal adjustments i NEED, than getting something thats BETTER in those categories, but exponential more expensive might not be my best choice, specially if you plan on keeping it.
I kinda did this with the Mark AR I bought, for a 400 dollar scope i think it was pretty damn good, but it didnt do anything my other 100-150 dollar scopes did that I NEEDED, so i sold it...at a loss. The guy who bought it, sounds like hes going to get great service from it, so im stoked with that, and it was probably a great scope for him to buy. Poor choice on my part because I bought more than i really wanted, good choice on his because i think hell use the features.

 

[CraigC]

The other thing i thought about, is that if we go beyond what we think is a good value in anything perhaps were NOT making a good financial decision. Reasoning being, if we say I want a scope that holds zero, is clear enough to see my target, works good in most lighting, and has what the functioal adjustments i NEED, than getting something thats BETTER in those categories, but exponential more expensive might not be my best choice, specially if you plan on keeping it.

Like I said in my first post, cheap scopes might work fine, until they don't. Fact is, you're gambling that they'll work the same for a lifetime of shooting when many times, they don't. I've had reticles break on the first shot. I've had cheap scopes work fine for a period of time and then start wildly shifting point of impact. I've had them fog up. I've had reticles turn within the housing. I've had an objective lens come loose and rattle. Anything man made can break down but buying the best quality you can reasonably afford minimizes the chance of encountering those problems. I don't give a damn about the warranty. I want one that works through decades of use without having to bother. If you buy something cheap that doesn't last, you've effectively wasted your money.

 

[LoonWulf]

Agreed IF it breaks, I agree that if you have any doubt there is value in spending more for the reliability.
Ive had one scope fail, A Nikon p233. I fell on it, on lava rock, i also crushed the synthetic stock on my mini, so id call it a hard fall. Thats the only one ive repaired/replaced due to mechanical isssues.
Ive owned probably 20 scopes under 100, and all have held zero and been adequately clear and bright, non have failed, thus I dont have a negative reaction to their longevity.
Also i feel every tool has its purpose, I certainly wouldnt trust my life, or a super expensive hunt, to a cheaper scope. I would buy the most expensive, and simple, scope i could (that would work for what i want) from well known maker. At that point im buying insurance, not a sighting device. For everything else i do if a scope DOES fail, ill go home and swap it out. I do buy Nikon so itll get boxed up and sent back for repair, other wise id happily write off the 40-60 bucks and get another.

The argument can be made that if you spend 120-150 you can get a base model scope from any of the majors, and i agree with that one too. The only thing I counter with is the 65-75 dollar bushnell trophys I just picked up were clearer than the buckmaste2, which is the next cheapest competitor.

Oh for reference there are weaver 3-10x40GSlams on amazon right now for cheap, those ive used and like. Id order one but they wont ship to hawaii :-(

 

[salt&battery]

Meh L96.....

I think were going beyond the basic discussion lol. I see a couple things Id like to chime in on. Yes generally cheal scopes dont add anything to the value of a firearm at sale, but they can be a nice incentive for guys who, unlike most of us on the boards, just wanna go blast stuff NOW!. When ive sold guns with scopes I usually say rifle is X$ and you can have the scope and rings for $ more. Its worked out well for me sofar. Even if they dont take the scope, tossed on ebay I've never actually lost much money on a scope. Case in point, i just sold a Simmons 6.5-20x50 for more than I originally paid for it 6 years ago. These scopes were and still are an excellent value, much like the CP scopes we talked about earlier.

The other thing i thought about, is that if we go beyond what we think is a good value in anything perhaps were NOT making a good financial decision. Reasoning being, if we say I want a scope that holds zero, is clear enough to see my target, works good in most lighting, and has what the functioal adjustments i NEED, than getting something thats BETTER in those categories, but exponential more expensive might not be my best choice, specially if you plan on keeping it.
I kinda did this with the Mark AR I bought, for a 400 dollar scope i think it was pretty damn good, but it didnt do anything my other 100-150 dollar scopes did that I NEEDED, so i sold it...at a loss. The guy who bought it, sounds like hes going to get great service from it, so im stoked with that, and it was probably a great scope for him to buy. Poor choice on my part because I bought more than i really wanted, good choice on his because i think hell use the features.

I had a 22-250 made with a 1x8 twist so I could shoot 80 grain bullets. I had a BSA $100 6x24 on it . shot a 2 1/2 group at 500 yds and promptly went out and bought a $600 bushnell 4500 scope figuring it would be so much better. it was exactly the same. no difference in seeing the target. a waste so I sold it. bought more powder brass and bullets.
at gander mountain they had about 50 binos on display ranging from $3000 to $75. swarovski zeiss steiner etc. you could see over 200 yds in that store. looked thru the 3K binos then found a $100 leupold porro prism called the yosemite model that was as clear as the 3K binos and a bushnell roof prism trophy XLT that was exactly as good as the most expensive. was reading signs with them. brought 5 guys up there that did not believe me and they all said the same thing I found. I have never saw a reticle break on the first shot or even heard of it. sure maybe a $29 scope. when I saved 10k numerous times I built my house with no mortgage

 

[salt&battery]

So is Leupold screwing everyone still? Or you simply don't have the money for their stuff? I don't have money and have learned the hard way about buying cheap optics. It's fine to not be able to afford better optics, but you can't bash Leupold because of that. It's not their fault people are willing to pay for their stuff as well as the other companies with good quality optics.

Center point and the other cheapos are the one screwing you I outlined that above. It's the low quality items that are taking advantage of people without money, it's not the good stuff. That applies to lots of things in life.

I believe this whole mess started with someone recommending to save up for a VX1 or something ( that's hardly a rich mans optic) I truly wish when I was a young man that someone would have gave me that advice. You can get layaway at Walmart academy, and others.

yeah I got really screwed bad by paying $69 for the scope that the OP asked about 4x 16 x40 mil dot CP that is crystal clear had it on hard two way recoiling air rifles that would destroy 90% of scopes 4 different center fires never lost zero in over 5 years. really learned my lesson. thanks for the advice. its leupold for me now with their Japanese lenses

 

[CraigC]

I had a 22-250 made with a 1x8 twist so I could shoot 80 grain bullets. I had a BSA $100 6x24 on it . shot a 2 1/2 group at 500 yds and promptly went out and bought a $600 bushnell 4500 scope figuring it would be so much better. it was exactly the same. no difference in seeing the target. a waste so I sold it. bought more powder brass and bullets.
at gander mountain they had about 50 binos on display ranging from $3000 to $75. swarovski zeiss steiner etc. you could see over 200 yds in that store. looked thru the 3K binos then found a $100 leupold porro prism called the yosemite model that was as clear as the 3K binos and a bushnell roof prism trophy XLT that was exactly as good as the most expensive. was reading signs with them. brought 5 guys up there that did not believe me and they all said the same thing I found. I have never saw a reticle break on the first shot or even heard of it. sure maybe a $29 scope. when I saved 10k numerous times I built my house with no mortgage

You are seriously deluding yourself. If you don't see or understand the difference, the problem is not the optic. A BSA is just as good as a Bushnell Elite and a $100 Leupold binocular is just as good as Swarovski or Zeiss??? In your dreams.

I have never saw a reticle break on the first shot or even heard of it.

I guess if you've never seen or heard of it, then it couldn't possibly ever happen, huh?

 

[Manny]

I work fixing diesel engines for a living and place a high value on quality tools of all types, be they wrenches, welders, guns, optics or whatever. Not everything cheap is junk, not everything expensive is flawless, but generally there is a strong correlation between price and quality. I truly enjoy and get great satisfaction from using and owning a quality piece of gear. I'm willing to pay the price to do so, and I'm for sure no Richie Rich. I'm just a middle class guy that sees more to value than the price tag.

I avoid buying Chinese goods as much as possible strictly on principle, the government there is no friend of the US and I want nothing to do with supporting them or their economy. I like supporting US workers and company's, or at least workers and company's from nations that tend to support the US.

As for optics, I don't own a tremendous amount but a large part of what I do own is military grade. Several Trijicons, an ACOG, an Accupoint & 3 MRO reddots, 2 Leupold MK 4 scopes, a Zeiss spotting scope & most recently a set of Vortex Viper (made in Japan) HD binocs. Also a couple Eotech's that are mounted on .22's that cost less than the optic. All top quality optics that represent a good bit of money even though most were acquired for very good prices and I don't begrudge a penny of it. I get great pleasure from using them all. I have tried looking through cheaper optics and I never have seen anything that comes close to what I have for less money.

The OP seems more than content with the CP scopes he has and I'm plenty OK with that....for him. For me they don't float my boat at all so I just don't go there. As always, YMMV.

 

[Manny]

Double tap

 

[salt&battery]

You are seriously deluding yourself. If you don't see or understand the difference, the problem is not the optic. A BSA is just as good as a Bushnell Elite and a $100 Leupold binocular is just as good as Swarovski or Zeiss??? In your dreams.



I guess if you've never seen or heard of it, then it couldn't possibly ever happen, huh?

I do understand the difference...3K to $100.
did you look thru all the binos I listed? I did. all the guys I brought there thought the same as you. try to do what I did in cabelas bass pro or gander mt. if you want to see crosshairs fall out take one of your good scopes put it on a RWS Diana spring rifle model 350-460-or 54 and you will be calling warranty dept. the Japanese lenses in your scope will rattle loose. not so with the CP the OP listed

 

[salt&battery]

I work fixing diesel engines for a living and place a high value on quality tools of all types, be they wrenches, welders, guns, optics or whatever. Not everything cheap is junk, not everything expensive is flawless, but generally there is a strong correlation between price and quality. I truly enjoy and get great satisfaction from using and owning a quality piece of gear. I'm willing to pay the price to do so, and I'm for sure no Richie Rich. I'm just a middle class guy that sees more to value than the price tag.

I avoid buying Chinese goods as much as possible strictly on principle, the government there is no friend of the US and I want nothing to do with supporting them or their economy. I like supporting US workers and company's, or at least workers and company's from nations that tend to support the US.

As for optics, I don't own a tremendous amount but a large part of what I do own is military grade. Several Trijicons, an ACOG, an Accupoint & 3 MRO reddots, 2 Leupold MK 4 scopes, a Zeiss spotting scope & most recently a set of Vortex Viper (made in Japan) HD binocs. Also a couple Eotech's that are mounted on .22's that cost less than the optic. All top quality optics that represent a good bit of money even though most were acquired for very good prices and I don't begrudge a penny of it. I get great pleasure from using them all. I have tried looking through cheaper optics and I never have seen anything that comes close to what I have for less money.

The OP seems more than content with the CP scopes he has and I'm plenty OK with that....for him. For me they don't float my boat at all so I just don't go there. As always, YMMV.

weren't a lot of Eotechs junk and they were forced to send the money back to the buyers?
how do you feel about GM taking most of the bailout money which isn't paid back and setting up shop in china and mexico or Harley taking bailout money in 83 now moving to either india or china. what about 99% of scope makers using Japanese lenses? every chevy truck I had up to the 90's was made in Canada. every Japanese car or truck I had was made in the US. many US companies moved offshore and in a matter of a few weeks including ford stopped a few more moving offshore.
supporting US workers just doesn't work out to well these days because of the greed of big companies

 

[HexHead]

You can't put too good glass on your rifle.

 

[salt&battery]

I do understand the difference...3K to $100.
did you look thru all the binos I listed? I did. all the guys I brought there thought the same as you. try to do what I did in cabelas bass pro or gander mt. if you want to see crosshairs fall out take one of your good scopes put it on a RWS Diana spring rifle model 350-460-or 54 and you will be calling warranty dept. the Japanese lenses in your scope will rattle loose. not so with the CP the OP listed

there is a new rangefinder called the kilo that sig sauer is selling made in china blows away 2K leica and swarvoski rangefinders. the fastest most accurate rangefinder goes to 2K yds for $349.

 

[salt&battery]

You can't put too good glass on your rifle.

unless you have the leupold MK 8 for $4700 all other scopes are junk

 

[Water-Man]

I've got an Centerpoint 1-4x20 on an AR-15 that's a great, inexpensive scope. Paid about $80.00 for it.

 

[salt&battery]

I've got an Centerpoint 1-4x20 on an AR-15 that's a great, inexpensive scope. Paid about $80.00 for it.

yes and it will do anything other scopes will do for as long as you want at a good price. things are different today. it does not take 1K to 4.7K to get a good scope. also the UTG scope like yours was so clear for me. for a while UTG was connected to CP but now crosman has CP now

 

[lobo9er]

unless you have the leupold MK 8 for $4700 all other scopes are junk

no one is saying that. At all.

I own the leupold bino's you speak of they are great.. got them on sale at gander. but the construction is obviously different than more expensive leupold counterparts. I love mine but why would I pretend they are as "good" as higher priced leupolds. It sounds like we have used similar gear. I have no problem admitting a VX-1 isn't a Mark 8 and there are upgrades available if I wish to pay for them.

 

[salt&battery]

no one is saying that. At all.

I own the leupold bino's you speak of they are great.. got them on sale at gander. but the construction is obviously different than more expensive leupold counterparts. I love mine but why would I pretend they are as "good" as higher priced leupolds. It sounds like we have used similar gear. I have no problem admitting a VX-1 isn't a Mark 8 and there are upgrades available if I wish to pay for them.

did they have a big display at gander where you could compare them to others? now when you say const is different then higher price ones what do you really do with binos? I just take them out look thru them then put them away lol. there was no difference in the binos you have and the 3K ones at 200 yds reading signs in the store. did you read what I said about the kilo rangefinder blowing away the 2.5K leicas? the day is over for having to think that you have to spend 1000's to aim at a target view something or find the range. 1K-4.7K scopes are for a few people that actually believe the marketing hype.
the only reason I mention the 4.7K scope is all I hear is you get what you pay for buy only the best all others are junk, glass will fall out while taking it out of the box ,reticle will break turrets will strip while zeroing scope will fog as you are mounting it etc.
I got lucky when I bought the scope for an airgun the OP mentioned never knowing that model would be that good. got it in wal mart and figured I would just bring it back but did not have to. bought another one that was 5 years ago and both are humming along.. do not know about other CP scopes they might not be any good just the one the OP mentioned

 

[CraigC]

The Kool Aid is strong with this one.

 

[lobo9er]

did they have a big display at gander where you could compare them to others? now when you say const is different then higher price ones what do you really do with binos? I just take them out look thru them then put them away lol. there was no difference in the binos you have and the 3K ones at 200 yds reading signs in the store. did you read what I said about the kilo rangefinder blowing away the 2.5K leicas? the day is over for having to think that you have to spend 1000's to aim at a target view something or find the range. 1K-4.7K scopes are for a few people that actually believe the marketing hype.
the only reason I mention the 4.7K scope is all I hear is you get what you pay for buy only the best all others are junk, glass will fall out while taking it out of the box ,reticle will break turrets will strip while zeroing scope will fog as you are mounting it etc.
I got lucky when I bought the scope for an airgun the OP mentioned never knowing that model would be that good. got it in wal mart and figured I would just bring it back but did not have to. bought another one that was 5 years ago and both are humming along.. do not know about other CP scopes they might not be any good just the one the OP mentioned

bro I was with you for awhile but its almost like your trolling now. you look through them yes mine will last a long time, and I enjoy them, whats your point? Do I need a $3000 dollar pair? No. Is my pair the same as a higher priced model? Nope, no shame in it.