Changes to reciprocity

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RetiredUSNChief

RetiredUSNChief

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Just noticed today while refreshing myself on state reciprocity:

Indiana (my state of birth) no longer recognizes my South Carolina CWP and vice-versa.

I'm pretty sure they used to recognize each other and I wonder if that changed because of South Carolina's recently passed open carry law, which changed a few other things as well.

I hope people are periodically refreshing themselves on reciprocity laws. I do whenever I have to travel outside my normal travel range (SC, NC, VA) and periodically otherwise for those three states.


EDIT: Just thought...since reciprocity is a "legal" thing, maybe I should have posted thing under the legal forum. Hmmm...

EDIT 2: Wait a minute...I just looked this over again. Indian honors all other state permits still. SC, however, does not honor Indiana. Still...a good thing to review.
 
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From what I was told when I got my Florida license, SC does not recognize any other state's license. They do not with Fl. that I do know.
 
South Carolina has just started recognizing other states within the last few years. I can't recall exactly when, but I was involved in a search for a missing person there and the date of the search just happened to be the 1st day it was legal. I volunteer with a SAR team.

When we do these searches there are times/places where carrying is a good thing and we are almost always working with local LE. It's never been an issue, but these guys were not used to seeing, and working around non-LE carrying guns. Some of them were a little uncomfortable at 1st.

That MAY have changed again. I'll need to be sure before I go back to SC.
 
AlexanderA said:
South Carolina has never been as pro-gun as might have been expected.
Click to expand...
. How so? South Carolina has very lax requirements to obtain a concealed weapons permit, fairly widespread reciprocity, no waiting period on firearm purchases, no magazine capacity limits, no "assault weapons" ban, no safe storage requirements, no FOID requirements. I live here and feel like we are very gun friendly. What am I missing?
 
If you're traveling interstate I suggest you check the State Attorney General's website for each state you plan to travel to/through, and print the official recipriocity information and take it with you, instead of relying on third party sources, which may or may not be accurate and up to date.
 
Be aware that Colorado, with the end of state pre-emption last year, is now entering the blackhole of allowing local municipalities (cities, counties, colleges, universities, transportation districts, etc) to make-up whatever new gun laws they want to, just as long as they are MORE strict than state law. Onerous new restrictions on where carry is permitted are actively being developed in the urban centers. It's really about the most blatant example of hypocrisy I have ever seen.
 
.455_Hunter said:
Be aware that Colorado, with the end of state pre-emption last year, is now entering the blackhole of allowing local municipalities (cities, counties, colleges, universities, transportation districts, etc) to make-up whatever new gun laws they want to, just as long as they are MORE strict than state law. Onerous new restrictions on where carry is permitted are actively being developed in the urban centers. It's really about the most blatant example of hypocrisy I have ever seen.
Click to expand...
Virginia pulled the same stunt in 2019. It's just a ploy to get gun owners to either get rid of their guns or leave them at home. The ever-tightening gun control here has made me pretty eager to pack up and go back home to Indiana.
 
My state (VT) does not issue a permit, but I believe if I wanted a NH carry permit I could get one although within the last few years NH no longer require a permit (const carry) but I believe they will still issue a permit.

I'm lucky in that the only thing east of me is two states, and I can travel freely through those states with no need for a permit, and I suppose even more lucky that the only time I really need to leave my state is to go to NH occasionally for shopping and ME for brief vacation time in the summer. I would like to obtain a permit though, because I have family in the Carolinas and I'd like to be able to carry legally on the rare occasion I may visit. I don't like the drive through NY, MA or NJ although I believe I can legally have a firearm locked away inaccessible with ammo separated from the gun, like in the trunk or "out of reach", if I understand correctly. Not ideal, but better than no gun I suppose.
 
RetiredUSNChief said:
Just noticed today while refreshing myself on state reciprocity:

Indiana (my state of birth) no longer recognizes my South Carolina CWP and vice-versa.

I'm pretty sure they used to recognize each other and I wonder if that changed because of South Carolina's recently passed open carry law, which changed a few other things as well.

I hope people are periodically refreshing themselves on reciprocity laws. I do whenever I have to travel outside my normal travel range (SC, NC, VA) and periodically otherwise for those three states.


EDIT: Just thought...since reciprocity is a "legal" thing, maybe I should have posted thing under the legal forum. Hmmm...

EDIT 2: Wait a minute...I just looked this over again. Indian honors all other state permits still. SC, however, does not honor Indiana. Still...a good thing to review.
Click to expand...

Here's where Jake Knotts screwed us a few years ago before we got rid of him and replaced him with Katrina Shealy ... and now all of his former LEO buddies like Dennis Moss are still touting Jake's hard fast rule .... no reciprocity with states that do not have a training provision prior to issuing.

I taught for years but still argued with Jake about that and was instrumental in hetting Jake ousted for his double-cross the first time we almost had Constitutional Carry.

Too many former LEO legislators on a state level to overcome the training requirement. We did get most of them to go along with the modified open carry which is basically an allowance to print and it opened-up access to some previously off limits places .... but Jake's influence is still killing us. I can't stand him and I've known him for decades.

Now, we also got free renewals passed and all the remaining instructors and test givers that I know of lowered their class fees except for the private classes. So we did do some good. But I don't see us backing-off the training requirement for reciprocity anytime soon. It is the bain of we gun owners here in SC when traveling out of state although a lot more states are adopting the training requirement amd some say it is good for the industry to help stop litigation against the makers ... whatever that means.

Also, SC is a peaceable journey state so you can travel through here and vacation here with your out of state CWP ... but your out of state CWP is no good here if you work here or are visiting family, etc. Although, we recently had a case where someone was doing just that, a black man, and he had to use his out of state CWP and he was not prosecuted because, from what I understand, the DA didn't want to try the case because it fell under stand your ground castle doctrine stuff .... I never understand any of it quite honestly and, like I said, I taught here for 25 years ... probably put 7k or more through my classes amd signed off on 95% of those to apply for their permits.

I still don't understand it all but I do think the new law is better written and gives us more leeway than the old one did. It's a relief not to have to worry about printing here, or accidently having a reveal, in the summertime especially.
 
DTL said:
From what I was told when I got my Florida license, SC does not recognize any other state's license. They do not with Fl. that I do know.
Click to expand...

They had a big outs with FL because FL was issuing to anyone and everyone including out of state permits. I had a Florida Non-Resident permit because my youngest daughter lives in South Florida, Jupiter, near Trump ... and I'm down there all the time and over in Naples with friends, fishing Okeechobee, etc. I am down there all the time. Then SC and FL had their darn fallout ... it's been a pain in my 4th point of contact.

Here in SC, with a CWP, we're allowed to carry automatic knives, pepper spray, brass knucks, just about anything. I could carry my GSD in my pocket if she would fit.

Can't do that in Florida.

My EDC is an automatic Kershaw clipped in my right pocket, a POM in my left pocket and in the summertime a Shield PLUS in 9mm. That would get me locked-up in Florida since the falling out.

I wish they would kiss and make up. Two great states.
 
Imagine if this level of stupidity was applied to drivers' licenses.
"Sorry sir, the city of Denver does not recognize your Texas license because you don't have ski bunny training, I'm going to have to pull you over and charge you with a felony count of operating a vehicle without a license"

Just keeping up with the constantly shifting reciprocity is a chore, and is probabally one of the more serious threats to our 2A rights.
 
Will Munny said:
Imagine if this level of stupidity was applied to drivers' licenses.
"Sorry sir, the city of Denver does not recognize your Texas license because you don't have ski bunny training, I'm going to have to pull you over and charge you with a felony count of operating a vehicle without a license"

Just keeping up with the constantly shifting reciprocity is a chore, and is probabally one of the more serious threats to our 2A rights.
Click to expand...

The problem is that it's the current and retired LEOs in the state legislature who fought against Open Carry and fought to keep the training requirement in place as well as not giving an inch on the reciprocity requirements. They were the ones, about twenty of them, who basically told our GOA chapter here to pound sand.

It's the LEOs who screwed us. They fought hard against us too ... many of them so-called Conservatives.

Next to agriculture our number one product is tourism but the LEOs don't see it like that. They claimed changing the laws would make it more dangerous for them on I-95, I-20, I-77 and I-26 ... three of those beginning and ending here in SC. I repeat. THREE (3) of those beginning and ending in South Carolina so ... I get it but I've never understood their logic yet I knew we were going-to lose when I sat there in the statehouse listening to the debate and listening to the SCHP.

We were lucky to get passed what we got passed. We felt like we won a big battle. It tooks years to get what we got.

The key to everything these days, when traveling, is Peaceable Journey. Reciprocity is good but Peaceable Journey gives us some leeway.
 
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Will Munny said:
Imagine if this level of stupidity was applied to drivers' licenses.
"Sorry sir, the city of Denver does not recognize your Texas license because you don't have ski bunny training, I'm going to have to pull you over and charge you with a felony count of operating a vehicle without a license"

Just keeping up with the constantly shifting reciprocity is a chore, and is probabally one of the more serious threats to our 2A rights.
Click to expand...

there are a few differences that make this even worse than that.
#1 driving without a license is not a felony :confused:
#2 the right the keep and bear arms is protected by the constitution, driving a car is not. :mad:
#3 the states voluntarily made driving licenses reciprocal, where as they fight us on Cary permits :cuss:
#4 cars kill and injured way way more people than guns each year :fire:


Airborne Falcon said:
Here in SC, with a CWP, we're allowed to carry automatic knives, pepper spray, brass knucks, just about anything. I could carry my GSD in my pocket if she would fit.
Click to expand...

Question: what’s an automatic knife? o_O
 
Airborne Falcon said:
We did get most of them to go along with the modified open carry which is basically an allowance to print and it opened-up access to some previously off limits places ....
.
.
.
I still don't understand it all but I do think the new law is better written and gives us more leeway than the old one did. It's a relief not to have to worry about printing here, or accidently having a reveal, in the summertime especially.
Click to expand...

And they screwed things up with the new law. Personally, I think we'd have been better off WITHOUT the open carry provision. They could have EASILY simply added open carry to the laws with very minor changes elsewhere. But no, they had to go messing other things up along the way...and quite deliberately, I believe.

The open carry law was touted at being a Second Amendment sanctuary law. Why? Because "feds bad", of course, as this was put forth as a response to more threads of every more stringent federal gun laws. However, there are now reporting requirements in the new law which specifically mandates state agencies pass specific information related to things which directly impact a citizens ability to keep and bear arms to the federal government.

What all these reporting requirements mean is that, in fact, the state WILL be feeding the federal government all the information necessary for the federal government to restrict a citizen's RKBA. I'm sorry, but is NOT Second Amendment sanctuary material. Which means it was all lip service. (I know...say it ain't so.)

Yes, there is verbiage that says the federal government can't compel state and local goverments to act...but this was merely showpiece wording, as this has always been the case. But the federal government DOES apply pressure through various other means...like "grant money", which they can then withhold if the state/local governments don't comply with the requirements of the grant money.

Signage in SC used to deal with whether concealed carry was allowed in certain places. Now the signage deals with no CONCEALABLE weapons. There is no provision for, say, a sign that differentiates between concealed and open carry. However, the local Walmarts in Simpsonville have a policy sign on their entrances asking customers not to open carry.

Anyway, signage was very clean in 23-31-235. HOWEVER, they introduced ambiguity in 23-31-220, which now says "In addition to the provisions of subsection (B), a public or private employer or the owner of a business may post a sign regarding the prohibition or allowance on those premises of concealable weapons, whether concealed or openly carried, which may be unique to that business". What's "unique to that business"? How concealable weapons are carried? Make or location up of the sign? That wording can mean ANYTHING at all.

Interesting read here:

https://www.southcarolinacarry.org/open-carry-with-training-act-h3094-the-good-the-bad-the-ugly/
 
15, or so, years ago I became aware that New Hampshire would issue 3yr(?) non-resident Concealed Carry Permits for, like, a $25 fee. I found that the NH CCP would plug all of the CCP holes in my potential interstate travels. Very convenient, that. :)

By the time it expired and I prepared to re-up, I found that NH had become wise to the profit possibilities of the venture and had raised the price to over $100 (IIRC). <shrug> I wasn't driving long-distance that much anyway.

========

Reading this Thread reminded me, for some reason, of the year after I got my first carry permit back in '75. A couple of my buddies from 2nd Precinct told me about one of their friends who kept a sawed-off in a blanket on the backseat of his car. They thought that such a thing would be a perfect addition for behind my seats on top of the batteries compartments ('69MGB). I quietly decided to do without such an accessory. ;)
 
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