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Charge Stopper on African Lion

Discussion in 'Hunting' started by 357smallbore, Nov 2, 2020.

  1. 357smallbore

    357smallbore Member

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    A friend of mine that has hunted in Kenya and South Africa. He said it would be better to use 12ga slugs on African Lion (male) for a charge stopper. I disagreed with him and said I'd much rather have a good 375 or a large caliber double rifle if it were me having to stare down claws and jaws.
    Do people really use slugs on Big Lion as a charge stopper?
     
  2. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey member

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    Deleted
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2020
  3. mcb

    mcb Member

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    I have read too much Capstick, never been to Africa, let alone hunt one of the dangerous 5, but I will ramble for what little it is worth. As I understand it lions though mean are not terrible thick hided or tough animals for their size. I have shot my fair share of deer and other critters with 12 gauge slugs and personally seen what it can do terminally. I personally would feel just as well armed against a lion at charge-stopping ranges with a good reliable pump shotgun loaded with a quality slugs (partial to Brenneke) as just about any other gun I might carry. Being extremely well practice with a reliable firearm of choice would be far more important than the differences in terminal effects of 375 H&H, 470 NE, or similar vs a 12 gauge slug at pucker distance to a charging lion.

    Capstick always followed up wounded Leopards with a Model 12 loaded with 2-3/4" buckshot, and of all the wounded animals to follow up on he felt leopard the most dangerous.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2020
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  4. Patocazador

    Patocazador Member

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    I went to Africa once and hunted plains game The guides told me that leopards were much more dangerous than lions and sneakier. 12 ga. 00 buckshot was good to follow them up. They said lions were lazy critters that would allow you to approach and nail one .. but don't wound them or miss or you have a tense situation.

    Capstick always struck me as a boastful, vain, wannabe white hunter, monocle and all.
     
  5. Grumulkin

    Grumulkin Member

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    Look on the bright side. If you hit the lion right you won't have to stop a charge. If the lion does charge your professional hunter will have an adequate firearm to stop the charge. The stopping gun, whatever it is, should not be scoped because a scope is a handicap at close range.
     
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  6. George P

    George P Member

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    A good friend of mine not only arranges safaris, but he has gone to Africa every year for over 4 decades. Has taken over 100 lions ( and has most of them mounted in a warehouse with his other trophies). He preferred a 375 H&H for things like that
     
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  7. jmr40

    jmr40 Member

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    I'd think the only advantage a shotgun with slugs would offer is faster repeat shots from a pump or semi-auto compared to a bolt gun. But someone who knows how to run a bolt gun, and is motivated, can do it a lot faster than a lot of people think.

    I know nothing of lions however. But compared to lots of other animals aren't that big, around 400-450 lbs is typical with some getting 500+. We have black bear here in GA bigger than that.
     
  8. DM~

    DM~ Member

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    AND he had a HUGE reputation of stretching the truth!!

    DM
     
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  9. PWC

    PWC Member

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    Jack O'Connor talked about his guides having sxs 12 ga with slugs for backup.
     
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  10. Loyalist Dave

    Loyalist Dave Member

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    They used 20 gauge SxS pistols, (first in black powder caplocks, then later cartridge guns such as the .577 boxer, below) known as Howdah pistols, to stop pissed-off, charging tigers at close range in Asia, so YES a 12 gauge slug would work.

    HOWDAH breech loader.JPG

    George P points out above, that an experienced dangerous game hunter, and longtime friend, preferred the rifle over the shotgun. Perhaps, I'd submit, that the experienced hand liked the 375 H&H as his dangerous game rifle, and knows it's much quicker to simply use the same rifle to engage a charging lion that suddenly appears, than to try to switch to the 12 gauge shotgun? The Howdah pistols that I cited, were often used after the hunter's muzzle loading 8 bore (or larger) missed incapacitating the tiger, which then charged the hunter and his now empty rifle, so he had no choice but to go for the backup gun.

    LD
     
  11. FL-NC

    FL-NC Member

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    I spent a few months on an exercise in Kenya with the military. The game rangers and Kenyan mil had 1 or 2 soldiers in each squad carry big bore hunting rifles of various types and calibers that had been confiscated from poachers for protection from dangerous animals. Since we (the US team) didn't have rifles like these, we carried our 870's with fixed stock, 18" barrel, and issued 00 or slugs purchased at wally world prior to the deployment, since 5.56 ball was just a bad idea and it wasn't practical to carry a 50 cal Barrett for this purpose. We never had to kill anything, BTW.
     
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  12. edwardware

    edwardware Member

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    Reading Capstick, lions aren't that hard to kill, it's just really really important that you kill them before they reach you, and they are hustling to reach you.

    Accuracy, speed, accuracy, power.

    Hey man, it's Africa! It's all bigger!
     
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  13. George P

    George P Member

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    Then again, so are the buffaloes, elephants and rhinos................;)
    Carry enough gun or be able to outrun everyone else
     
  14. PWC

    PWC Member

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    The howdah pistol got its name, I believe, from the wicker type basket (howdah) that used to be "worn" by elephants, like a saddle that the hunters and guests were traveling in while hunting in India. It was a tiger gun and evidently it was common for tigers to attack people on the howdah.
     
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  15. Meeks36

    Meeks36 Member

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    All anyone needs is a 22lr to shot your partner in the leg.
     
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  16. 792mauser

    792mauser Member

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    Laughing way to hard. tmp-cam-2365338212812705544.jpg
     
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  17. entropy

    entropy Member

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    Taking away it's credit card often works.
     
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  18. SharpDog

    SharpDog Member

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  19. 1KPerDay

    1KPerDay Member

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    *trombone sound*
     
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  20. FL-NC

    FL-NC Member

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    And I thought it was from Minnie Pearl.
     
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  21. PWC

    PWC Member

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    No, that was "HowDeeeee", not to be confused with Howdy Doody or Buffalo Bob, Clarabelle, or Flubadub.
     
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  22. Mr. Zorg

    Mr. Zorg Member

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    Here's a great venue for this Q&A, plenty of folks who've BTDT with first hand experience instead of speculation. Many members live in Africa and work as Professional Hunters backing up tourist hunters and could tell you what their choices are especially when a client muffs their shot to make a 1 shot stop to save everybody in the hunting party from excessive risk.

    https://www.africahunting.com
     
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  23. H&Hhunter

    H&Hhunter Moderator Staff Member

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    Kenya has been closed to legal sport hunting since 1978 or so. Outside of national parks there hasn’t been a truly wild lion shot in South Africa for quite some time. Capstick is not one to be quoted or take real life hunting advice from. His experience as a PH is greatly overstated. He was a heck of a fiction writer and a seriously accomplished drunk. I used to love Capstick’s books until I spent some time in Africa hunting dangerous game. I can’t stand his stuff now especially after watching his video series. He spent most of his time on film being scared of animals and situations that simply did not warrant fear.

    Most real life PH’s that I know prefer to use a shotgun on leopard follow up. When it comes to lions some prefer a heavy rifle, others a shotgun with slugs. Given my choice I’d prefer a heavy double rifle. Having shot critters with both there really isn’t any comparison when it comes to bone crushing stopping power. The heavy double is king.
     
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  24. Captcurt

    Captcurt Member

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    You are showing your age now.

    A friends dad worked in India back in the 50's. He shot a semi-trailer load of game with a 30-06 including leopard. While following a wounded one he opted for a Model 12 12ga with 00 buck. His son has a couple of hides. One has buck shot holes in the head and shoulders.
     
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  25. Ugly Sauce

    Ugly Sauce Member

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    Perhaps the size of the bore does matter, and not whether it's rifled or not. A 12gauge is .72 caliber. If .72 caliber rifles were more common, that might also be the first choice for stopping, or following a wounded Lion into the brush. Size does matter.
     
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