Charter Arms Undercoverette

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Boom,

I notice that 4 of your loads are handloads, that disqualifies them to me. I do not reload. The HORNADY load looks good, but it is still much, much less effective in my opinion that the FEDERAL .38 HST hollow point. That load expands to double it's starting diameter and anything over 9 inches of penetration is fine. My agency adopted that rule three decades ago and has seen no reason to change it. Neither do I. I stick with the UNDERCOVER in .38 Special until something that really offers me an option I do not have, like an HST load in .32 H&R or the described lightweight version of a model 15.

Did you use ballistic gel for the tests? You did not note it in your post. I know that GUN TESTS likes water filled milk jugs.

Just my opinion.

Jim
 
Agencies have their rules; I was subject to them for many years. Since my retired frequents are much tamer now, I can thankfully make my own decisions in these matters. ;)

Handguns in .32 calibre are usually chosen for reasons of lighter weight, higher capacity, and/or lower recoil. Most any .38 Special load is going to show better marginal ballistics than a .32 H&R or .32 S&W Long. As youtuber Paul Harrell likes to remark, "whether the difference is enough to make a difference, you be the judge". When old age, arthritis or some other circumstance befalls me, it's nice to have options. It would be foolish to treat the .32 as inadequate for self-defense.

And to paraphrase an old saying, the .32 is a nice gun to have, when you don't think you'll need it.
 
My tests have shown otherwise. YMMV:

View attachment 977256

Regarding the various Lucky Gunner tests. Having personally tested some of the same factory loads as they have, and also cross-referenced other testing of those loads, I'm skeptical of their results in general. While there are variables in any kind of ballistic testing, I'm not convinced that their testing is reliable as a general statement. In many cases, the results of mine and others were quite different that those they present.
Sometimes this is related to the particular firearm used, sometimes to the particular lot of ammunition tested, sometimes to medium consistency and testing conditions. I'm satisfied that my results track well with actual tissue results. Again, YMMV.
Dang, are those loads yours? Nice tests.

upload_2021-2-12_6-53-14.jpeg

That’s why the discerning shooter’s gunsmith insists upon chambering each of his client’s carry arms in .32 — 45 ACP might expand or it might not expand, but .32 H&R Magnum will never get smaller!




Good work.
 
BOOM,

The velocity and weight of you backward's wadcutter load are approaching the specs for a 110 grain .38 Special load. I am not sure you can really call that a "LOW RECOIL" load, especially if you use it an a 16 ounce gun.

Jim
 
Speaking as an experienced shooter and competitor, yes the Professionals all shoot low, some horribly so. I have two, they both shot 12"+ low at 15 yards. The basic problem is the same with all the fixed sight .32 guns based .38/.357 frames without alteration. A fixed sight frame - if originally designed for .38 Special/.357 Magnum - needs a higher rear sight to target with the lightweight .32 bullets. But that would entail building an entirely separate frame line for .32 guns, and the limited market for those guns just doesn't jibe with profit maximization to create an entirely new frame production. So they all use the same frames they use for the .38/.357 guns.

The Ruger SP-101 fixed sight 3" gun in .327 Federal Magnum is afflicted with the same problem, and to correct it, Ruger puts a tiny nib of a front sight on it bring the POI up. It still shoots slightly low. If you changed to a hi-viz front sight, the gun shoots very low due to the higher front sight change. Some aftermarket SP-101 sights explicitly state "not for .32 guns".

A better way to handle this problem is make the .32 barrel with a slimmer contour, narrowing at the muzzle, so that a normal height front sight will sit lower, achieving the same result with a more visible front sight. Look at an old-school Colt Police Positive Special or S&W J frame .32 - the barrel is naturally slimmer at the muzzle due to the smaller calibre, and the front sight is quite good. But that is again too much extra work for the modern revolver manufacture, who wants to use the same barrel blank for everything, and just drill a smaller hole in the barrel for .32. This also conveniently appeals to the modern shooter who thinks a mild recoiling small-frame short-barrel .32 concealment gun needs a heavy barrel. o_O

Charter used the same frame as the Bulldog on the .32 Professional. That would have been OK if they would have taken the 3" Classic Bulldog barrel and tapered it to the muzzle for .32. Instead, they installed a heavy barrel with a big rib on top, and then made it worse by adding a HUGE blob of a fiber optic front sight on the end of it. I'm assuming this was done to make it look cool and sell guns. This substantially raised the front sight height, subsequently pushed the POI way down.

In doing this, it would have been nice if they had spent an extra 50 cents to make a couple of small barrel cuts beveling the rear corners of the rib to match the existing unchanged frame bevel, instead of leaving a couple unsightly hanging square edges at the back of the barrel.

My first nitride Professional was so bad I returned it to Charter with test targets. They ended up sending me a new gun with an adjustable rear sight - kind of a custom one off. That zeros just fine. I figured maybe that was a fluke, so I bought a stainless one, and that shot low also.

At 7 yards, if you bottom the front fiber optic in the rear sight notch, the top of the front sight actually sits above the top of the rear sight notch. Using what is referred to today as the "combat sight picture" (that is, covering up your target with the front sight and expecting POI to be through the center of the front sight and not on top of it), you can get close enough to that particular POA for defensive shooting. Based on 34 years of LE experience as a firearms instructor, I think the current fad "combat sight picture" is a crock of dodo... but that is another issue.

I'm guessing they shot these guns during development and realized the problem and said to hell with it, it's too expensive to make a special frame just for these .32s, and 98% will not notice it.

I like Charter guns but agree the QC can be inconsistent. I bought the high polish Charter Undercover .38 and it is the nicest handling 5-shot snub in a long time. I carry it frequently and the trigger action and overall smoothness is FAR superior to any other Charter, and most S&W J frames I've handled out of the box. On the high polish guns, the junction of the grip/trigger guard assembly and the frame is rounded and polished, that is why they can sell it with the original style small grips. Every other charter has some kind of wrap-around grip because where the frame meets the separate backstrap, that is now left sharp and unblended for reasons of economy and will rip the web of your hand up in short order with serious loads. Look at the front of the muzzle on the outside edge - hey Charter how about spending 25 cents and put any kind of a bevel on that square edge on what is supposed to be a carry gun? Charter has cut corners on guns that were originally designed to be less-expensive to manufacture: not usually a good look or result. At least Charter doesn't rip the wallet off your butt to buy their guns.

Charter makes a 5-shot 2-1/2" barrel ".41 Mag Pug" on the "extra large frame" which is somewhat larger than the Bulldog - about the size of the old Ruger Security-Six cylinder. I bought one of these guns and while full house .41 Magnum rattles your teeth, the little Pug shoot very well and right on POA at 15 yards. I got a 1-1/2" group at that distance right on the money with the Remington Hog Hammer Barnes bullet load. I mostly handload .41 Special ammo for it at a more sedate level around 900 fps, which in the light gun is still something to behold. With Pachmayr grips this gun is about as light as you are going to get for a bigger-bore magnum. No complaints at all.

I also agree Charter will make whatever issue you have right. This is just the state of manufacturing generally today. It is less expensive for the factory to pay shipping both ways and repair (or more likely replace) a gun, than it is to spend the extra $$$ in the first place to properly inspect all guns at the factory and reject out the of spec guns ones. The vast majority of gun buyers either don't shoot their guns, or fire less than 50 rounds, and are not well skilled to begin with, so don't notice any problems. Occasionally a random low QC gun will get into the hands of someone that has a clue about they are doing, and it's cheaper for the manufacturer just to fix or replace that specimen. It has been a competitive market and price drives a lot of decisions. Unfortunately, you cannot make a decent revolver in the manner of a plastic framed pistol and have it either appealing or properly functional. But people don't want to pay for a functional quality revolver, when you can buy a plastic 9mm for $299.

I have seen the exact same philosophy at work at Ruger and S&W with revolvers, as I have sent plenty of those back as well. With the current S&W it is usually the low-margin grind-em-out J-frames (I completely gave up on M&P pistols after many disappointments), although I've sent Performance Center guns back that were Lack of Performance guns.

With Ruger it's everything and anything they make depending on the day of the week - the MSRP they charge for guns of Harbor Freight quality with horrible triggers, shaving sharp edges and gross finish flaws is appalling. I recently looked at high-polish SP-101 "Match Target" model that I needed double trigger fingers to cycle through double action... what kind of match is that gun for? Maybe a no-ammo pandemic pretend match. I can't wait to see how much quality Ruger can soak out of Marlin to bring it down to their level of disappointment - I'm guessing a cast receiver filled with MIM everything and clad in their crappy polymer stocks - with "through hardened bolt and hammer forged barrel", as if that would make the rest of it OK.

I've seen new Colt Pythons, Cobras and King Cobras that were an embarrassment, beyond the baked-in embarrassment that these guns are even when in spec.

There are no more craftsman at the major gun manufacturers, just parts assemblers. If it isn't moulded plastic, MIM or cast, slap-em-together parts - they just fall flat trying to produce something worthy of the close to $1000 they charge for most any steel revolver. S&W and Ruger have been trying to make a revolver with semi-to-unskilled labor for the past 10 years and it shows in the results. You can blame part of this on vulture capitalists buying up gun companies and ruining them.

Yes Sir:

My CA Professional shot low also. I designed and 3d printed a slightly elevated rear sight. I cleaned up the 3d print and finessed the tapered bottom groove insert. Test firing was spot-on. I attached the new sight with a bit of 2 part epoxy. Looks decent. Shoots consistent rounds dead center of target. I am pleased with the results.

gun-1.jpg gun-3.jpg
 
Boom,

I notice that 4 of your loads are handloads, that disqualifies them to me. I do not reload. The HORNADY load looks good, but it is still much, much less effective in my opinion that the FEDERAL .38 HST hollow point. That load expands to double it's starting diameter and anything over 9 inches of penetration is fine. My agency adopted that rule three decades ago and has seen no reason to change it. Neither do I. I stick with the UNDERCOVER in .38 Special until something that really offers me an option I do not have, like an HST load in .32 H&R or the described lightweight version of a model 15.

Did you use ballistic gel for the tests? You did not note it in your post. I know that GUN TESTS likes water filled milk jugs.

Just my opinion.

Jim

Jim I agree the Federal 38spl +P 130gr HST is more impressive than the 32 H&R Hornady load ... for sure ...but the 32 H&R load will recoil much less than a 38spl standard pressure & much more less than a 38 +P load .... if all are housed in lightweight snubbies ... + the 32 H&R could easily be a 6 shot vs a five shot .. another + with the 32 H&R is use of the 32 Long
 
I have an older Target Bulldog 357 since the 70's and I have no complaints. I had to use "locktite" to keep the ejector rod from unscrewing but once that was done the gun has held up great even after shot with considerable number of 357 Mag rounds. Would I prefer a Smith, Colt or even a Ruger? Definitely Yes, but none of those are available for the low price I paid for my CA. I am still hopeful that CA comes out with a 5-shot DA 44 Magnum similar to the Taurus Tracker.
 
Buckeye,

The HORNADY .32 H&R magnum load will have less recoil, but will not be as or anywhere near as effective as the FEDERAL HST .38 Special load. A .32 H&R magnum load, if developed by FEDERAL or anyone else, might turn out to be the killer load that this cartridge needs, giving it an effective load with less recoil than a .38 Special, but so far, I am not convinced that the HORNADY FTX load is the one. It is a standard hollow point with a good hollow point clogging prevention feature, but it is not the killer load that the .32 H&R needs, in m opinion

While I would like that extra 6th shot, I will trade it for the much more effective ammo like HST.

It was the development of the .38 Special 158 grain +P lead semi wadcutter hollow point that really gave the .38 Special a feature with law enforcement back in the 70's when the horrible record of .38 Special lead round nose failures nearly killed it.

just my opinion,

Jim
 
Buckeye,

The HORNADY .32 H&R magnum load will have less recoil, but will not be as or anywhere near as effective as the FEDERAL HST .38 Special load. A .32 H&R magnum load, if developed by FEDERAL or anyone else, might turn out to be the killer load that this cartridge needs, giving it an effective load with less recoil than a .38 Special, but so far, I am not convinced that the HORNADY FTX load is the one. It is a standard hollow point with a good hollow point clogging prevention feature, but it is not the killer load that the .32 H&R needs, in m opinion

While I would like that extra 6th shot, I will trade it for the much more effective ammo like HST.

It was the development of the .38 Special 158 grain +P lead semi wadcutter hollow point that really gave the .38 Special a feature with law enforcement back in the 70's when the horrible record of .38 Special lead round nose failures nearly killed it.

just my opinion,

Jim

I agree with you 100% ... The Fed 130gr HST 38spl +P is more powerful than the 32 H&R FTX load
But .... comparing the loads ... is similar to comparing the Fed 38spl +P load to a 357 Mag load
The 357 mag load is more powerful than the 38spl
+P load .... but with more recoil thus slower follow up shots ..... as the 32 H&R vs the 38spl +P

The 32 H&R offers a SD load that is effective can be housed in a lightweight J frame size revolver with six shots and has less recoil than a 38spl

Im a huge 38spl fan .. Fed 130gr HST is one of my favorites... but the 32 H&R has its place as the 327 Fed ,, and 357 mag
0E23F266-EB30-45E9-A685-8CF069D2C2D6.jpeg
LCR327 with 32H&R
4C27370B-3B3B-48A8-A90E-BF799B961D90.jpeg
LCR357
99643176-C7B0-4CE1-807A-488EA96A38DD.jpeg
Charter 38spl 6 shot Police Bulldog 130gr HST
3D0FCA13-4BE3-4D77-AC1B-884F5BDBCCE8.jpeg
642 110gr FTX standard pressure
5065108D-FED8-4F82-B44C-669824BA46BA.jpeg
Model 12 with 685UL
Model 12 148gr LWC , 856UL 130gr HST
 
Buckeye,

The HORNADY .32 H&R magnum load will have less recoil, but will not be as or anywhere near as effective as the FEDERAL HST .38 Special load. A .32 H&R magnum load, if developed by FEDERAL or anyone else, might turn out to be the killer load that this cartridge needs, giving it an effective load with less recoil than a .38 Special, but so far, I am not convinced that the HORNADY FTX load is the one. It is a standard hollow point with a good hollow point clogging prevention feature, but it is not the killer load that the .32 H&R needs, in m opinion

While I would like that extra 6th shot, I will trade it for the much more effective ammo like HST.

It was the development of the .38 Special 158 grain +P lead semi wadcutter hollow point that really gave the .38 Special a feature with law enforcement back in the 70's when the horrible record of .38 Special lead round nose failures nearly killed it.

just my opinion,

Jim
For what it may be worth, the 32 HR Magnum published loads that I have seen are very light, compared to what the round will do. The factory loads I’ve seen on Youtube have been the same way.

It seems like everyone is letting their respect for Harrington and Richardson guns from the Western Auto cloud their approach to 32 H and R.

This thing can be loaded so much hotter and still stay in spec.
 
For what it may be worth, the 32 HR Magnum published loads that I have seen are very light, compared to what the round will do. The factory loads I’ve seen on Youtube have been the same way.

It seems like everyone is letting their respect for Harrington and Richardson guns from the Western Auto cloud their approach to 32 H and R.

This thing can be loaded so much hotter and still stay in spec.
The reviews for full-power 32 HR ammo on Midways website say things like

“...VERY potent. Has notable blast and would probably have objectionable recoil in a small revolver”

“...it's iffy that the Buffalo Bore 32 h&r magnum is safe to shoot in that gun” (Charter Undercoverette)”
 
BUCKEYE,

The lower recoil alternative load to the +P .38 Special is a good idea, but I do not think the present .32 H&R magnum loads are it. They are just a little too underpowered, for the most part. Another 100 to 150 fps and a 95 to 100 grain jhp at the same velocity as the 85 grain jhp might have offered something.
As is, I would use a .32 H&R or S&W Long loaded with 98 grain wad cutters and try for the most effective shot. With that load, recoil really would be lower.

Under the present circumstances, I do not see a real advantage to a 2 inch barreled .32 H&R magnum. A four inch barrel would be a big help to get the velocity up and a slightly stronger loading. I think a compact .32ACP would be just as effective as a the Undercover loaded with .32 H&R and hold more ammo. Like I suggested earlier, something equivalent to the FEDERAL HST load, but in .32.

Jim
 
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Speaking as an experienced shooter and competitor, yes the Professionals all shoot low, some horribly so. I have two, they both shot 12"+ low at 15 yards. The basic problem is the same with all the fixed sight .32 guns based .38/.357 frames without alteration. A fixed sight frame - if originally designed for .38 Special/.357 Magnum - needs a higher rear sight to target with the lightweight .32 bullets. But that would entail building an entirely separate frame line for .32 guns, and the limited market for those guns just doesn't jibe with profit maximization to create an entirely new frame production. So they all use the same frames they use for the .38/.357 guns.

The Ruger SP-101 fixed sight 3" gun in .327 Federal Magnum is afflicted with the same problem, and to correct it, Ruger puts a tiny nib of a front sight on it bring the POI up. It still shoots slightly low. If you changed to a hi-viz front sight, the gun shoots very low due to the higher front sight change. Some aftermarket SP-101 sights explicitly state "not for .32 guns".

A better way to handle this problem is make the .32 barrel with a slimmer contour, narrowing at the muzzle, so that a normal height front sight will sit lower, achieving the same result with a more visible front sight. Look at an old-school Colt Police Positive Special or S&W J frame .32 - the barrel is naturally slimmer at the muzzle due to the smaller calibre, and the front sight is quite good. But that is again too much extra work for the modern revolver manufacture, who wants to use the same barrel blank for everything, and just drill a smaller hole in the barrel for .32. This also conveniently appeals to the modern shooter who thinks a mild recoiling small-frame short-barrel .32 concealment gun needs a heavy barrel. o_O

Charter used the same frame as the Bulldog on the .32 Professional. That would have been OK if they would have taken the 3" Classic Bulldog barrel and tapered it to the muzzle for .32. Instead, they installed a heavy barrel with a big rib on top, and then made it worse by adding a HUGE blob of a fiber optic front sight on the end of it. I'm assuming this was done to make it look cool and sell guns. This substantially raised the front sight height, subsequently pushed the POI way down.

In doing this, it would have been nice if they had spent an extra 50 cents to make a couple of small barrel cuts beveling the rear corners of the rib to match the existing unchanged frame bevel, instead of leaving a couple unsightly hanging square edges at the back of the barrel.

My first nitride Professional was so bad I returned it to Charter with test targets. They ended up sending me a new gun with an adjustable rear sight - kind of a custom one off. That zeros just fine. I figured maybe that was a fluke, so I bought a stainless one, and that shot low also.

At 7 yards, if you bottom the front fiber optic in the rear sight notch, the top of the front sight actually sits above the top of the rear sight notch. Using what is referred to today as the "combat sight picture" (that is, covering up your target with the front sight and expecting POI to be through the center of the front sight and not on top of it), you can get close enough to that particular POA for defensive shooting. Based on 34 years of LE experience as a firearms instructor, I think the current fad "combat sight picture" is a crock of dodo... but that is another issue.

I'm guessing they shot these guns during development and realized the problem and said to hell with it, it's too expensive to make a special frame just for these .32s, and 98% will not notice it.

I like Charter guns but agree the QC can be inconsistent. I bought the high polish Charter Undercover .38 and it is the nicest handling 5-shot snub in a long time. I carry it frequently and the trigger action and overall smoothness is FAR superior to any other Charter, and most S&W J frames I've handled out of the box. On the high polish guns, the junction of the grip/trigger guard assembly and the frame is rounded and polished, that is why they can sell it with the original style small grips. Every other charter has some kind of wrap-around grip because where the frame meets the separate backstrap, that is now left sharp and unblended for reasons of economy and will rip the web of your hand up in short order with serious loads. Look at the front of the muzzle on the outside edge - hey Charter how about spending 25 cents and put any kind of a bevel on that square edge on what is supposed to be a carry gun? Charter has cut corners on guns that were originally designed to be less-expensive to manufacture: not usually a good look or result. At least Charter doesn't rip the wallet off your butt to buy their guns.

Charter makes a 5-shot 2-1/2" barrel ".41 Mag Pug" on the "extra large frame" which is somewhat larger than the Bulldog - about the size of the old Ruger Security-Six cylinder. I bought one of these guns and while full house .41 Magnum rattles your teeth, the little Pug shoot very well and right on POA at 15 yards. I got a 1-1/2" group at that distance right on the money with the Remington Hog Hammer Barnes bullet load. I mostly handload .41 Special ammo for it at a more sedate level around 900 fps, which in the light gun is still something to behold. With Pachmayr grips this gun is about as light as you are going to get for a bigger-bore magnum. No complaints at all.

I also agree Charter will make whatever issue you have right. This is just the state of manufacturing generally today. It is less expensive for the factory to pay shipping both ways and repair (or more likely replace) a gun, than it is to spend the extra $$$ in the first place to properly inspect all guns at the factory and reject out the of spec guns ones. The vast majority of gun buyers either don't shoot their guns, or fire less than 50 rounds, and are not well skilled to begin with, so don't notice any problems. Occasionally a random low QC gun will get into the hands of someone that has a clue about they are doing, and it's cheaper for the manufacturer just to fix or replace that specimen. It has been a competitive market and price drives a lot of decisions. Unfortunately, you cannot make a decent revolver in the manner of a plastic framed pistol and have it either appealing or properly functional. But people don't want to pay for a functional quality revolver, when you can buy a plastic 9mm for $299.

I have seen the exact same philosophy at work at Ruger and S&W with revolvers, as I have sent plenty of those back as well. With the current S&W it is usually the low-margin grind-em-out J-frames (I completely gave up on M&P pistols after many disappointments), although I've sent Performance Center guns back that were Lack of Performance guns.

With Ruger it's everything and anything they make depending on the day of the week - the MSRP they charge for guns of Harbor Freight quality with horrible triggers, shaving sharp edges and gross finish flaws is appalling. I recently looked at high-polish SP-101 "Match Target" model that I needed double trigger fingers to cycle through double action... what kind of match is that gun for? Maybe a no-ammo pandemic pretend match. I can't wait to see how much quality Ruger can soak out of Marlin to bring it down to their level of disappointment - I'm guessing a cast receiver filled with MIM everything and clad in their crappy polymer stocks - with "through hardened bolt and hammer forged barrel", as if that would make the rest of it OK.

I've seen new Colt Pythons, Cobras and King Cobras that were an embarrassment, beyond the baked-in embarrassment that these guns are even when in spec.

There are no more craftsman at the major gun manufacturers, just parts assemblers. If it isn't moulded plastic, MIM or cast, slap-em-together parts - they just fall flat trying to produce something worthy of the close to $1000 they charge for most any steel revolver. S&W and Ruger have been trying to make a revolver with semi-to-unskilled labor for the past 10 years and it shows in the results. You can blame part of this on vulture capitalists buying up gun companies and ruining them.
 
Hello Boom Vang:
Here is the easy fix for the low shooting Charter Arms Professional. This is an early production add-on rear sight for your 32 revolver. Nicely finished aluminum that slips into the top slot of the Professional. Secure it with some 2-part epoxy or JB Weld. Then just aim, shoot and Bulzeye. $20 bucks and $2 shipping.
entire gun-b.jpg close up-a.jpg
 
Speaking as an experienced shooter and competitor, yes the Professionals all shoot low, some horribly so. I have two, they both shot 12"+ low at 15 yards. The basic problem is the same with all the fixed sight .32 guns based .38/.357 frames without alteration. A fixed sight frame - if originally designed for .38 Special/.357 Magnum - needs a higher rear sight to target with the lightweight .32 bullets. But that would entail building an entirely separate frame line for .32 guns, and the limited market for those guns just doesn't jibe with profit maximization to create an entirely new frame production. So they all use the same frames they use for the .38/.357 guns.

The Ruger SP-101 fixed sight 3" gun in .327 Federal Magnum is afflicted with the same problem, and to correct it, Ruger puts a tiny nib of a front sight on it bring the POI up. It still shoots slightly low. If you changed to a hi-viz front sight, the gun shoots very low due to the higher front sight change. Some aftermarket SP-101 sights explicitly state "not for .32 guns".

A better way to handle this problem is make the .32 barrel with a slimmer contour, narrowing at the muzzle, so that a normal height front sight will sit lower, achieving the same result with a more visible front sight. Look at an old-school Colt Police Positive Special or S&W J frame .32 - the barrel is naturally slimmer at the muzzle due to the smaller calibre, and the front sight is quite good. But that is again too much extra work for the modern revolver manufacture, who wants to use the same barrel blank for everything, and just drill a smaller hole in the barrel for .32. This also conveniently appeals to the modern shooter who thinks a mild recoiling small-frame short-barrel .32 concealment gun needs a heavy barrel. o_O

Charter used the same frame as the Bulldog on the .32 Professional. That would have been OK if they would have taken the 3" Classic Bulldog barrel and tapered it to the muzzle for .32. Instead, they installed a heavy barrel with a big rib on top, and then made it worse by adding a HUGE blob of a fiber optic front sight on the end of it. I'm assuming this was done to make it look cool and sell guns. This substantially raised the front sight height, subsequently pushed the POI way down.

In doing this, it would have been nice if they had spent an extra 50 cents to make a couple of small barrel cuts beveling the rear corners of the rib to match the existing unchanged frame bevel, instead of leaving a couple unsightly hanging square edges at the back of the barrel.

My first nitride Professional was so bad I returned it to Charter with test targets. They ended up sending me a new gun with an adjustable rear sight - kind of a custom one off. That zeros just fine. I figured maybe that was a fluke, so I bought a stainless one, and that shot low also.

At 7 yards, if you bottom the front fiber optic in the rear sight notch, the top of the front sight actually sits above the top of the rear sight notch. Using what is referred to today as the "combat sight picture" (that is, covering up your target with the front sight and expecting POI to be through the center of the front sight and not on top of it), you can get close enough to that particular POA for defensive shooting. Based on 34 years of LE experience as a firearms instructor, I think the current fad "combat sight picture" is a crock of dodo... but that is another issue.

I'm guessing they shot these guns during development and realized the problem and said to hell with it, it's too expensive to make a special frame just for these .32s, and 98% will not notice it.

I like Charter guns but agree the QC can be inconsistent. I bought the high polish Charter Undercover .38 and it is the nicest handling 5-shot snub in a long time. I carry it frequently and the trigger action and overall smoothness is FAR superior to any other Charter, and most S&W J frames I've handled out of the box. On the high polish guns, the junction of the grip/trigger guard assembly and the frame is rounded and polished, that is why they can sell it with the original style small grips. Every other charter has some kind of wrap-around grip because where the frame meets the separate backstrap, that is now left sharp and unblended for reasons of economy and will rip the web of your hand up in short order with serious loads. Look at the front of the muzzle on the outside edge - hey Charter how about spending 25 cents and put any kind of a bevel on that square edge on what is supposed to be a carry gun? Charter has cut corners on guns that were originally designed to be less-expensive to manufacture: not usually a good look or result. At least Charter doesn't rip the wallet off your butt to buy their guns.

Charter makes a 5-shot 2-1/2" barrel ".41 Mag Pug" on the "extra large frame" which is somewhat larger than the Bulldog - about the size of the old Ruger Security-Six cylinder. I bought one of these guns and while full house .41 Magnum rattles your teeth, the little Pug shoot very well and right on POA at 15 yards. I got a 1-1/2" group at that distance right on the money with the Remington Hog Hammer Barnes bullet load. I mostly handload .41 Special ammo for it at a more sedate level around 900 fps, which in the light gun is still something to behold. With Pachmayr grips this gun is about as light as you are going to get for a bigger-bore magnum. No complaints at all.

I also agree Charter will make whatever issue you have right. This is just the state of manufacturing generally today. It is less expensive for the factory to pay shipping both ways and repair (or more likely replace) a gun, than it is to spend the extra $$$ in the first place to properly inspect all guns at the factory and reject out the of spec guns ones. The vast majority of gun buyers either don't shoot their guns, or fire less than 50 rounds, and are not well skilled to begin with, so don't notice any problems. Occasionally a random low QC gun will get into the hands of someone that has a clue about they are doing, and it's cheaper for the manufacturer just to fix or replace that specimen. It has been a competitive market and price drives a lot of decisions. Unfortunately, you cannot make a decent revolver in the manner of a plastic framed pistol and have it either appealing or properly functional. But people don't want to pay for a functional quality revolver, when you can buy a plastic 9mm for $299.

I have seen the exact same philosophy at work at Ruger and S&W with revolvers, as I have sent plenty of those back as well. With the current S&W it is usually the low-margin grind-em-out J-frames (I completely gave up on M&P pistols after many disappointments), although I've sent Performance Center guns back that were Lack of Performance guns.

With Ruger it's everything and anything they make depending on the day of the week - the MSRP they charge for guns of Harbor Freight quality with horrible triggers, shaving sharp edges and gross finish flaws is appalling. I recently looked at high-polish SP-101 "Match Target" model that I needed double trigger fingers to cycle through double action... what kind of match is that gun for? Maybe a no-ammo pandemic pretend match. I can't wait to see how much quality Ruger can soak out of Marlin to bring it down to their level of disappointment - I'm guessing a cast receiver filled with MIM everything and clad in their crappy polymer stocks - with "through hardened bolt and hammer forged barrel", as if that would make the rest of it OK.

I've seen new Colt Pythons, Cobras and King Cobras that were an embarrassment, beyond the baked-in embarrassment that these guns are even when in spec.

There are no more craftsman at the major gun manufacturers, just parts assemblers. If it isn't moulded plastic, MIM or cast, slap-em-together parts - they just fall flat trying to produce something worthy of the close to $1000 they charge for most any steel revolver. S&W and Ruger have been trying to make a revolver with semi-to-unskilled labor for the past 10 years and it shows in the results. You can blame part of this on vulture capitalists buying up gun companies and ruining them.
 
In the past year, I have come to appreciate .32 revolvers in all flavors. Started with a 3" SP101 in .327, added a 4" Regulation Police .32 S&W Long as well as a 2" Hand Ejector in the same caliber. Just his week, I picked up a 2" stainless Charter six-shot Undercoverette in .32 H&R. Lots of components, fortunately, and working on the best loads for each. I did splurge for some Buffalo Bore .32 H&R, and if it proves too feisty for the Charter, I can always shoot it in the Ruger. The Charter will be going DAO when the hammer I ordered gets here this coming week.
Fedora-and-32s.jpg Charter-Snubby.jpg
 
Wow, this thread has been a hit. Nice to see the interest in .32 H&R and Charters. It's kind of gotten off track a bit, with pics of S&Ws and .38s.

C'mon back to Charter .32s:
IMG_8586.jpeg

That aftermarket rear sight looks very nice. The only downside is gluing something onto your gun. Maybe I missed it, but what is the corrected POA at a given distance?

In the pic above, the top Professional has an adjustable rear sight from Charter. It's something of a one-off, not catalogued. On both guns I replaced the grips with something more user-friendly for me. Did not like the woodpecker grips supplied with them.

With the stainless gun and the stock sights, POI depends on the sight alignment and picture. Traditional sighting with 6 o'clock hold and top of front sight even with top of rear sight - yes it shoots low at all distances, gets much worse past 30 feet. "Combat sight picture" (I hate that misnomer) - front fiber optic fully visible in the rear sight notch, and centered on the target - it hits an 8" pie plate all day long out to 50 feet.

You have to consider what these guns are made for: close-range self-defense. The sights do work for that within typical distances. I wished Charter would have put more thought and effort into the sights, but it is what it is.
 
Lot of hair-splitting going on in this thread. You can pick your comparison of calibre, ammunition and weapon, and create whatever point you want. But how about apples vs. apples?

IMG_8587.jpeg

Two small-frame, 2" revolvers. Both current production. Similar ammunition. the .38 Special S&W on the left is loaded with handloaded Speer 110 gold dot @ 850 fps. The .32 H&R Charter on the sight with handloaded 116 RNHP @ 850 fps.

There's not a nickel's worth of difference between the paper ballistics. The .38 has a somewhat bigger bullet diameter, but both bullets expand and penetrate within the margin of variation of each other: .38 110 GDHP - 11" penetration, exp .585". .32 116 RNHP - 10" penetration, exp .595"

The weight of the two guns is nearly identical. The recoil of the guns two guns is nearly identical, and I am being charitable since I'm using a higher powered handload in the .32 Charter above, which is not available commercially. With .32 H&R factory loads - Hornady 80 FTX - the recoil of the Charter is NOTICEABLY less than any .38 Special factory load.

The Charter holds 1 extra shot.

The rest is subjective. For me, the frame on the Charter has a much better hold than the tiny frame on the S&W, regardless of the type of grips applied.

The lowest recoiling .38 Special defensive loading currently produced (yes I know that is a joke) is the Hornady 110 grain FTX grain @835 fps out of the 2" barrel:
Power 170 fpe
Recoil 4.3 fpe

The most effective (and available) .32 H&R mag load is the Hornady 80 grain FTX load @980 fps out of the 2" barrel:
Power 170 fpe
Recoil 3.3 fpe

Same power with less recoil for .32 H&R Mag, and one extra shot in the cylinder. You can carry a bigger gun, in a larger calibre, with more powerful loads, but you will pay the price in carrying (size and weight) and recoil. You will be hard pressed to find a lighter recoiling combination of the Charter Undercoverette and .32 H&R Mag, and still retain adequate power.

Which is the entire point of the .32 H&R Mag.
 
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