Rifle rounds require much less to be effective at stopping human attackers than do pistol rounds. Rifles are rifles, pistols are pistols.
I wouldn't feel bad, at all, about ANY x39 round doing what is required/reasonably expected.
Cheap defense ammo?
- Thread starter chopinbloc
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Rifle rounds require much less to be effective at stopping human attackers than do pistol rounds. Rifles are rifles, pistols are pistols.
I wouldn't feel bad, at all, about ANY x39 round doing what is required/reasonably expected.
What knockdown power would that be?
Panzerschwein
member
You will feel bad when your 7.62x39mm FMJ or poorly designed hollow point (they are out there) sails through your wall and into the kids body who lives across the street.
The Wolf hollow point load fragments and expends all of it's energy inside roughly 14" of ballistics gelatin... and won't just blow right through 24+ inches of the stuff.
There is more to a good defensive bullet than pure lethality. Yes, rifles are rifles and pistols are pistols... and while rifles are generally held to be more effective, they can put the user (and other people) in great peril if that power cannot be contained with properly designed defensive ammo.
And no, that ammo doesn't have to cost a mint.
Well, that's one of the many reasons I use 5.56 and not x39.
But as far as the starting topic of stopping an attacker, I wouldn't feel bad about any x39 round being able to do that job.
Fortunately a person firing in home defense (or self defense at all) and injuring another person with over penetration basically never happens.
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chopinbloc
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1: PPU makes very good .223 ammo. It is pretty accurate and has great terminal performance for the price. Their 10mm really sucks, though.
Statements like this
Calls into question how critical a person is about POI equaling POA, as I have seen enough difference in for me to take it into consideration.
I reload my practice ammo is indistinguishable from my carry ammo.
Already did my SP101 doesn't get carried with 125gr @1450 fps
orionengnr
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If you can't afford to fill two magazines, your priorities are screwed up. How much did you pay for your carry gun?
Quit smoking for a day or two, miss a meal or two at McDonalds, or skip the cable/internet bill for about three day's worth.
Seriously...two mags worth of 9mm is 34 rounds for a G17. That is 2/3 of a box of ammo....which is (at worst) $35-40.
You could save a lot more by not buying a gun, and not getting your CHL...put a few rocks in your pocket and call it good.
What is your life worth? Sometimes, you get what you pay for. Sometimes, you get much more.
Oh, and while you're at it, check out the difference between "effect" and "affect".
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Statements like this
Calls into question how critical a person is about POI equaling POA, as I have seen enough difference in for me to take it into consideration.
I reload my practice ammo is indistinguishable from my carry ammo.
Already did my SP101 doesn't get carried with 125gr @1450 fps
Am I to understand that your handloads are the only ones you've tested that were too far apart for you to be comfortable carrying them?
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chopinbloc
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First, there's no need to take things personally. We can discuss things civilly, this is The High Road, after all. Second, it should be apparent that it is a bit of exaggeration used to make a point about the expense of ammunition. Third, two magazines of .223 TAP or TSX is a lot more expensive than two magazines of 9mm HST.
Finally, that is the correct use of the word "effect". I'm pleased to receive criticism because it makes me better, but when you correct someone incorrectly on a niggling point, it undermines everything else you said. Be well, and thank you for reading the article.
If you can't afford to fill two magazines, your priorities are screwed up. How much did you pay for your carry gun?
Quit smoking for a day or two, miss a meal or two at McDonalds, or skip the cable/internet bill for about three day's worth.
Seriously...two mags worth of 9mm is 34 rounds for a G17. That is 2/3 of a box of ammo....which is (at worst) $35-40.
You could save a lot more by not buying a gun, and not getting your CHL...put a few rocks in your pocket and call it good.
What is your life worth? Sometimes, you get what you pay for. Sometimes, you get much more.
Oh, and while you're at it, check out the difference between "effect" and "affect".
I eat McDonald's maybe once every two months, and I don't think my cable company would do a "just skip three days" thing. Of course, three days of that wouldn't cover an ammo purchase anyway.
I don't smoke. I don't use tobacco.
Seriously, for some people spending more money isn't an option and for some people those things you are spouting off do not apply.
Two magazines isn't enough. If you want to do it right you need to verify function (and POI) in your gun before you carry it. I figure a minimum purchase of 100 rounds for a quality JHP to be used in a quality firearm that has proven reliable on everything else I have ever given it...minimum 150 round initial purchase if I haven't run other JHP's through it in quantity before.
That looks like about $85 for the 9mm Gold Dots I would buy/recommend, or about $110 for .45 ACP. Figure $115 or so for 5.56.
That's not "skip a couple McDonald's" kind of money
NOMI WASP
member
BOOM!!! I couldn't have said it better myself. My defensive ammo is not the place I choose to be cheap.If you can't afford to fill two magazines, your priorities are screwed up. How much did you pay for your carry gun?
Quit smoking for a day or two, miss a meal or two at McDonalds, or skip the cable/internet bill for about three day's worth.
Seriously...two mags worth of 9mm is 34 rounds for a G17. That is 2/3 of a box of ammo....which is (at worst) $35-40.
You could save a lot more by not buying a gun, and not getting your CHL...put a few rocks in your pocket and call it good.
What is your life worth? Sometimes, you get what you pay for. Sometimes, you get much more.
Oh, and while you're at it, check out the difference between "effect" and "affect".
I also don't think you need to run 100 rounds of defensive ammo to make sure it functions properly. When I get a new box of 50, I run 7-8 rounds choosing them from different locations in the box. I also stick with the same rounds (Speer, HST,Ranger, Golden Sabers)which have always went bang. I've yet to find a 9mm factory round that didn't fire properly from my G19 so I guess I don't worry about that as much as people with other handguns.
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If you don't choose to be "cheap" with your defensive ammo, why do you forego running a number of rounds through first to check function?
BTW: A few years ago I bought a new Glock. It was like my 4th model, all had been reliable on everything, as you would expect. I ran 100 rounds of FMJ through it, then I ran 39 rounds of a supposedly quality JHP (Ranger), and they all worked. I broke my own rule about number of rounds of testing.
I loaded it up with the 11 round left from the box and started carrying it.
Next range trip it jammed on 2 rounds out of that magazine. Two jambs from a single magazine...the exact magazines/rounds I had been carrying.
So I ran another 50 round box through and had 3 more jambs.
You can learn the lesson to not be cheap on testing ammo from others (such as my example), or you can take your chances and hope being cheap with your ammo doesn't come back to haunt you.
NOMI WASP
member
Just cause you owned a jammomatic that you feel 100 rounds is needed, doesn't mean my G19 is a problem. If it ever gave me an issue I would address it.
Yes, your Glock is, and all of your Glocks will always be, perfect on every type of ammo. And if not you'll know within 7 test rounds.
NOMI WASP
member
Yea cause that's the only 7 rounds I've ever fired in the gun in a year and a half.
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My mistake, I didn't realize you were referring to a specific round you had previously used in that pistol. I don't even try rounds from each individual box. Once I have established reliability with that round in that pistol the most I'll do is test again if I switch to a different lot number, I don't do anything special when I open a new box.
mgkdrgn
Member
There was a commercial directed at the motorcycle crowd a few years ago that went something like this:
If you have a $10 head, buy a $10 helmet.
If not, buy Bell.
If you have a $10 head, buy a $10 helmet.
If not, buy Bell.
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chopinbloc
Member
I think you're missing the point. There are some like loads where you can spend $12 and get the same performance as you get for twice as much in other loads. There are also loads that might seem a good deal on the surface but don't deliver.
Example(s)?
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chopinbloc
Member
The loads listed in the article are good examples of both ends of the spectrum.
I am aware there is a spectrum and there are loads at difference ends.
But you said:
Can you please provide at least one example of this?
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chopinbloc
Member
Prvi Partizan .223 75 gr BTHP offers terminal performance as good as or better than Hornady 75 gr TAP.
ETA: The word "like" was a phone generated typo.
ETA: The word "like" was a phone generated typo.
Which 75gr TAP?
That PPU round is a great value, yes, definitely agree there.
It's not completely fair to compare .223 to 5.56. Does that PPU have crimped primers or a sealed case mouth?
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