Cheepie auto's ?? (Lorcin/Raven)

[magnagunz]

Anyone have experience with Lorcin, Raven etc.? I just got a couple at an online auction really cheap. The lorcin .22 is pretty reliable and accurate. The Lorcin .25 can rarely get through a mag. w/o a jamb. Any tweaking I can do to make it/them more reliable?

thanx

 

[Chipperman]

Count yourself lucky that one works well.

What kind of jams are you experiencing with the .25? If they are failure to feed, you can try gently polishing the feed ramp. Just be careful and go slowly with any mods you do. They are made of poor quality metal. You may never get the .25 to work.

 

[magnagunz]

It seems more like the ejecting case is hanging up, rather than the feeding one. I just got a manual and found out how to get the slide off. I'll give the ramp a little polishing.

Thanx

 

[Kevinch]

I'll give the ramp a little polishing.

Be careful - if you are too aggressive & take off too much material, you can do harm that cannot be reversed.

The guns you've purchased are built to a price point and are not designed to withstand a lot of shooting. They are more a last ditch defensive weapon for those who cannot afford, or choose not to spend, the money required to obtain a gun of a more robust design & construction.

Try a few different ammo brands & when (& if) you discover one that seems to work reliably, stick with it. You don't identify what you purchased the guns for - Concealed Carry, Home Defense, or plinking. If it's CC or HD, shoot them enough to get familair with them & then maintain limited practice. If it's plinking, don't be surprised if you wear them out quickly.

 

[Manedwolf]

Considering the chamber pressure that even a .25 ACP develops, and considering the low-grade metallurgy of those guns, I personally would NOT be firing them.

Also, note of caution, don't even think of using anything like the MagSafe .25 ACP +P Defender round in it...it'd likely explode in your hand.

Really unsafe. They were meant as a cheap last-ditch, not as a range gun. At the least, I'd wear a kevlar glove and a pair of wraparound goggles.

If you really want a .25 that's safe and reliable, pick up something like a Beretta or even a Kel-Tec...you'll not have to check if your fingers are all still there after each round.

 

[silicon wolverine]

+1 on no +p ammo. I have a raven p-25 that hasnt seen very many rounds (50 or less) and its already showing signs of heavy wear. Guns like this were banned by the "junk gun" laws of the 90s. In all reality not a bad idea though i abhore any kind of gun law.

SW

 

[magnagunz]

Thanx for the input. I'm still holding out that I can make a, at least, satin... purse out of a sows ear...

The purpose of these guns is;

A- I'm poor
B- Back up cc
C- see A

I have a Kel-Tec p-11 for all around cc. I've shot around 300 rounds with only (2) ftf's early in the break in period. In fact after 50 rounds it's been flawless. It's small, light, accurate, inexpensive, reliable.

The junk is just cause they were sooooo cheap, and little

edit for spelling in parenthasis

 

[Just_a_dude_with_a_gun]

I hate to admit this, but I've got a jennings J-22 that I actually like,
even in the company of my Sig and Springfirld GI.

It'll hit out to 10 yards 3-5" groups, and it's never failed to fire, eject,
or feed. No, it's not a good pistol by any means, but it does what it's supposed to do pretty well. I've got about 300 rounds through it, and no signs of wear.

 

[Manedwolf]

Guns like this were banned by the "junk gun" laws of the 90s. In all reality not a bad idea though i abhore any kind of gun law.

In this case, I wouldn't consider them to have to fall under a "gun law", I would think they could just be regulated by any law that prohibits knowingly selling an unsafe consumer product..because any injury is likely to be to the operator!

Guns liable to explode in the user's face due to poor metallurgy are just as unsafe as recalled SUV-flipping failing tires and self-igniting coffeemakers.

 

[Mooseman]

I'll admit I like some of the inexpensive guns, just not the ones you mentioned. If money is tight then maybe a Makarov from a local gun show would work for you. I also own a Hi-Point which has been very reliable but a bit hard to cc. Have fun with your guns for plinking but I wouldn't want to stake my life on an unreliable gun in a low caliber. Good luck.

 

[silicon wolverine]

I worked for Ford during the firestone tire debacle and it actually wasnt firestones fault thier tires failed but they took the blame none the less. At that time Ford reccomended tire pressure at 23 PSI in the explorer. Whatever tires were on them regardless of make would have failed at 23 PSI. Ford did this to lower risk of rollover in what, IMHO was a crappy design that was rushed off the drawing boards into production to compete with the S-10 blazer crowd. Thats why the body style only lasted a few years and they upgraded to a wider stance in the 96 "big-body" exploders. I have a 96 with a 5.0 AWD package and its as stable and smooth as any 1/2 ton pickup.

SW

 

[Onmilo]

I owned the comparable Jennings J22 for about a year and used it for shooting barn pidgeons.
Never could get that pistol to reliable feed anything.
It worked OK with the shotshells I used for killing the pidgeons but then again I hand cycled those cartridges.

I have repaired many, many of the Ravens.
They were quite popular around this area but were very prone to breaking striker caps and firing pins.
The internal springs were not very good either.
The magazines were and are quite reliable but Raven/Lorcin/Jennings/Cobra and whatever other names this company changed to as each succession of lawsuits were filed, anyway they didn't make their own magazines.

Pass on these dogs.
They are the last of the garbage guns and I for one don't mourn their passing.

 

[magnagunz]

These weren't purchased as main carry pieces, but as "possible" back ups, and heck I'll take a single shot over no shot at all.

I agree about the Makarov, my Bro. has one and he likes it a lot.

I say a junk gun is better than no Gun!

 

[BillinNH]

I have a Jennings J22 which I bought as an experiment and which works well enough that I keep it around. I wouldn't rely on it for serious purposes unless I had no alternative and I would put very few high power loads through it but it basically works and is fun to shoot. Using it for shot cartridges is something I hadn't considered but isn't a bad idea. Kids like shooting it because of the small grip size. My only failures with it were due to one of the mags needing tweeking. The gun works well enough for me to keep around but I don't use it for anything really important.

I kludged up a pinky extension for the magazine (see pic).


Bill

 

[Manedwolf]

Really, though, if you HAVE to use a "junk gun" like a Jennings to defend yourself, you may be less well off in the following civil suit than you would if you had used something "inexpensive but mainstream".

The Lorcins, Jennings and Ravens seem to have gotten a rep as the guns petty crooks favor because they can be thrown away...so I would think that it might not look as good for you if it appeared as Exhibit A in a courtroom...?

 

[BullfrogKen]

I admitted to being a gun snob in alduro's gun snobbery post. Your Kel-tec is my floor for a gun that I'm going to carry. I am fine with my Kel-tec 9mm.

I think you might wind up frustrated, but I'm bullheaded myself and would probably try to shove a square in a round hold until it fit.

I'd employ my fixed blade knife before I considered one of these.

 

[Mikee Loxxer]

I shot a buddies Bryco Arms 380 Auto once. It had a very hard trigger pull and hit about seven feet to the left a 7 yards. It also jammed frequently. It was the junkiest firearm I have ever fired.

 

[magnagunz]

good luck with that knife, and I love knives, even the junky ones!

Again, my main carry piece is the kel-tec 9mm which has proven itself extremely reliable in the 300 rounds I've fired through it, but, as a back up or an extreme conceal situation against a knife for instance, here's what I see happening. Bad guy pulls knife, good guy (me) pulls gun (junkie raven for instance in hypotheticall .25 cal., 6 shot mag with wood handles and a shinny "chrome" finish, hypothetically) bad guy advances, good guy fears for life, fires one or two rounds into bad guy before gun jambs, bad guy, on pcp, meth, cocaine and alcohol, only winces from the loud noise unfased by the bullets (hypothetically a .25 cal) logged, one in his heart the other in his lung. Bad guy keeps right on comming, good guy (me) pistol whips (literally) bad guy into unconsienceness with palm sized junk gun. Situation averted. Later in court, hot shot public defender asigned to scum bag perpatrator, questions good guy (me) as to the reason he had a junkie raven, notorious for street crime and blowing up in the hand of the shooter (documented?) good guy says, "it's all the gun I could afford after taxes, or I thought it was club, or aren't you thinking of Lorcins?"

 

[Kevinch]

all righty then......

 

[magnagunz]

Sorry, got a little carried away. I'm getting so much "advice" about how I should melt these down for bullets for real guns. I just wanted to know if anyone had performance enhancing secrets for "junk guns". Perhaps a new thread titled "lorcins on roids'?

 

[Rotorflyr]

magnagunz,
I for one agree with you in that in a pinch a "junk" gun is better then no gun at all, and if it only goes bang (not "boom") once, it *may* still give you the edge you need.
Would I count on one for a primary weapon.....Nope, if one was that poor and needed a primary weapon IMO they'd be better off with a Hi-Point (or similar), but like you said, these weren't intended to be primary weapons.

As for "tuning" the .25, only advice I can give you is try different brands of ammo and see if it helps, otherwise plan on loading it with the hottest slightly oversized reload you can and throwing it at the bg, with luck he'll catch it, try and shoot you with it, and have it go "boom" in his face!

 

[MCgunner]

I'm pretty poor myself, but a RAVEN???? ROFLMAO!

I carry my P11 for primary most of the time, too, but have a NAA .22 mini revolver with it. It's there, not much, but it's handy for things sometimes and is always there in a back up roll. I'm not an LEO or I'd carry something more serious on the ankle or something for back up, maybe a J frame. But, the little mini is so easy to carry, I mean, why leave it at home???? I gave about $100 for it 20 years ago, but they've gone up. They're very well made, though, and I think they're still under $200. Mine has the folding "holster grip" and it shoots pretty well considering sights and sight radius or lack there off and it is even easier to carry than a Raven.

 

[Zero_DgZ]

Eh, well I had an FIE E-28 for a while which I think is a very similar design. I'm in sort of the same boat as you - I was offered the gun and two mags for 20 bucks. "Why the heck not?" Said I.

I have to hand it to that thing, it was a right little trooper. Maybe I just got lucky. The barrel was steel but the frame was evidently brass (!), as a magnet would stick to the screws and springs but not the metalwork itself. The grips were a plasticy fake mother-of-pearl sort of thing. The gun was chromed and very shiny. Looked like a toy from a gumball machine. I loved it.

I did note that the recoil spring on the gun was very stiff, which made it tough to cock especially with cold, wet, or gloved hands. I took to keeping it loaded with the old +1 in the chamber and the hammer down, as it had no mechanical safety whatsoever.

Its sights were cast into the slide and totally non-adjustable, of course. They were close horizontally but way off vertically. That little thing would throw a 3" group or so at 10 yards and might technically be able to do better but it's hard to keep something that tiny pointed right. It did better than I thought it would. I fed it Remmington PMC ammo and only had two failures to eject that I can think of off the top of my head. I never had a failure to feed. Out of that little tiny barrel god only knows what kind of muzzle energy I was getting. I fully expect I could have thrown the bullets harder.

Still, it was fun for making noise and goofing around with plinking, though rather expensive for those silly .25 ACP rounds. I actually did carry it sometimes when I was the only person working the floor at the store and the boss (and his guns) were absent. I never had to use it, and fully expected that if I ever did all I could hope for was to distract the perp long enough to knock him over the head with something.

Anyway, the magazines held 6 in stock trim but would almost hold seven. I decided that the legs on the followers were a bit too long and a kiss from the grinder let the mags hold 7 without feed issues. An 8th would go in the chamber. Not bad for something you could probably stuff into the zippo pocket of your jeans.

 

[lbmii]

A very good reliable and small 25 auto is the FIE Titan. They cost like 45 to 75 dollars. Mine is excellent. Low power ugly little thing but excellent reliability and accuracy. I do not know when they stoped importing them. They are hard to find.

If you want a cheap 25 auto get the Titan over those "Ring of Fire" cast zink brands.

 

[Zero_DgZ]

That's the gun I had, I think. I don't know of any difference between the Titan and the E-28 other than the fact that the latter has a european style bottom release on the mag.

They probably got swept under the rug with the ATF "points" importation system. As they have simple triggers, no safety, short barrels, et. all.