China executing 10,000 every year???

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Preacherman

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From Yahoo! News (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20040315/wl_afp/china_npc_executions_040315061433):

China executes 10,000 people a year: NPC delegate

Mon Mar 15, 1:14 AM ET Add World - AFP to My Yahoo!

BEIJING, (AFP) - China sentences to death and immediately executes around 10,000 convicted criminals every year, according to a delegate who was seeking to curb the practice at China's just closed parliamentary session.

"Every year China has nearly 10,000 cases of the death penalty that result in immediate execution. This is about five times more than all the other death penalty cases from other nations combined," said Chen Zhonglin, a National People's Congress (NPC) delegate from Chongqing municipality.

Chen's statement, in a weekend edition of the China Youth Daily, is believed to be the first time that such a number has appeared in the state-controlled press.

If correct, the numbers put to death are far higher than the estimated annual number of executions reported by human rights groups.

London-based Amnesty International counted 1,060 reported executions in the state press in China last year, while Hands Off Cain, an international group opposed to the death penalty, estimated that more than 3,000 people were executed in China in 2002.

While China is notorious for its liberal use of the death penalty, it has held the number of people executed each year as a closely guarded state secret.

"We have never published such a figure so we do not know where Chen Zhonglin got this number," a spokesman at China's Supreme People's Court told AFP Monday.

"We cannot comment on this figure, nor can we confirm it."

In a proposal signed by Chen and 40 other delegates to the NPC, the government was urged to review all death sentences at the Supreme People's Court, China's highest court, instead of allowing provincial high courts to issue the execution order.

"The power of final verification and approval is very much tied up in the fate of some 10,000 people executed every year in China and should be a deep concern for everyone," said Chen, who also serves as the president of the law school at Southwestern University of Politics and Law.

The delegates expressed their concern that the government was acting illegally by not verifying and approving all capital punishment verdicts at the highest level as stipulated by law, the China Youth Daily said.

"This violates the 1996 'Criminal Procedural Law' and the 1997 'Criminal Law'," Chen said.

Yi Yanyong, a criminal law professor at Tsinghua University's School of Law, said the number of executions in China cited by Chen could be accurate as he would have special powers of investigation as an NPC delegate.

"These NPC delegates do have some special powers so if he asked the right official then there is a possibility that this number is accurate," Yi told AFP.

"However, if he went around from court to court asking lower level officials how many people they executed, like a lot of scholars have tried to do, then it would be very difficult to come up with an accurate figure."

There was also a possibilty that the figure used by Chen was his own estimate and was being used to bring more attention to the issue, Yi said.
 
Given China's population, I don't think 10k is unacceptable. The problem is that some, and perhaps most, of those people were convicted of political crimes or crimes China wants to be tough on, like hacking.

If there are 10k people per year who deserved the death penalty, how would a high court review that many cases?
 
As Dennis Miller noted after China reached 1 billion in population, "If you girlfriend tells you that you are one in a million, than means there are 10,000 others that are exactly like you."

So, one in a million are executed summarily. Our legal system makes lethal mistakes at a much higher rate and that is by accident!
 
Double Naught,

can you back that up? As far as I know, erroneous executions are nowhere near as common as death-penalty opponents claim. First, most people condemned are never executed. That's why an execution is big news here. Second, many of the claims of erroneous conviction are not actually that: the convicted is usually guilty but there are technicalities which can be exploited to vacate the conviction. Death penalty opponents nonetheless claim these as erroneous convictions.

In 2000, 85 people were executed, the majoriy of them being white, by the way:

www.usdoj.gov/bjs/cp.htm
 
I was part of a surreal discussion the other day. A store clerk was explaining to me how Norinco guns (made by Chinese prison labor according to him) were much superior to Polytech guns (made in factories by "free" Chinese according to him). Not knowing much about either type of weapon I was unable to comment on that. But I did wonder why he thought I would want to support Chinese labor camps just to get an inexpensive 1911A1 clone. :barf:
 
Actually, the math above is off by an order of magnitude. 10,000 executions per annum, out of a population of 1 billion, would be 1 person in every 100,000, not every million. (10^5x10^4=10^9, aka 1 billion).

If the US executed people at that rate, we'd be putting about 2,900 people to death every year. I don't know the actual number, but I'm sure it's nowhere even close.

And interesting side note: How many people does N Korea execute every year?
 
The Chinese also sell organs from a lot of those executed. There have also been stories of prisoners being executed on demand when those organs are needed.

TBeck- the clerk is full of it. There is one firearms manufacturer in China, the Red Army. Polytech, Norinco, ChinaSports, they're all the same.
 
This is a funny one, and not in the 'haha' sense.

Firstly there is that old 'cultural' argument. Aspects of chinese life today are little different than they were under the Emperors. I doubt that many ordinary chinese peasants could tell the difference, or even would really care. My ex's mother would say that the Taliban had one good idea - executing fornicators (no comment on my feelings when she said this), she was Chinese. Obviously not all Chinese people feel that way, but execution has long been used there in a way it has not been used here since the days of hanging bread thieves. Remember seeing pictures from the Boxer Rebellion of executions in the street.

China has long been criticised by human rights organisations for it's 'many abuses'. A story told to me by an old student friend was that he was in China as part of his Chinese language course and a fellow Westerner he was with was glassed in a bar. The perpetrator was arrested but the student dropped charges after being informed that Chinese man was possibly facing the death penalty.

I'm not backing up the 'evil commie statists' here, but I doubt that all of this is entirely due to the Chinese Communist Party as much as it is due to the way things have always been done. Doesn't mean I like it.
 
There are a LOT of credible reports that the people executed are done so very close to hospitals so they can be...well, the auto dismantling business calls it "parting 'em out" :barf:.

Somebody over there read some Larry Niven :rolleyes:.
 
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The leftists/socilaists/statists abhor violence until they are in total control.
 
"We have never published such a figure so we do not know where Chen Zhonglin got this number," a spokesman at China's Supreme People's Court told AFP Monday.
In other news, Chen Zhonglin has been reassigned to a re-education camp.
 
I spoke a woman I met at work (she was a lawyer specilizing in ITAR and other international treaty issues, I'm an engineer) and she said that she had personally seen a video where Chinese prisoners were lined up, shot, and before they were even clinically dead had organs "harvested" from their twiching bodies. Depending on what organs were "needed" they would be shot either in the head (for removal of chest and abominal organs) or in the heart (if corneas, or other head items were desired).
 
That number (10,000) sounds way, way low. The number of baby girls being executed under the "one child per family" policy is so high that they are now short several tens of millions of women for guys who are looking to marry. (I think I recently saw the number 70 million mentioned.)
 
Y'know, if Commie Chinese definition of criminals include drug sellers, thieves, burglars, rapists, drug addicts, then I don't mind. I wish we could send them a couple of thousands of ours. China has a long tradition of executing people that stretches back to the Ch'in Dynasty (when Chin Shih Huang Ti had anyone who disobeyed an Imperial Edict) that completed the Great Wall of China.
 
It seems the more people that are crowded into one place putting strains on resources, value of human life is much lower.

Ever notice how people in large congested cities behave as opposed to
people in small towns? Same goes for politicians of said areas

With 20% of the worlds population the China's government is only concerned with maintaining control and disposing of those who make a peep.
 
I know the current Chinese government is pretty much one of the worst in the world, but as St Johns and 4v50Gary pointed out, execution is nothing new in China.

Consider this - if the US catches someone killing people, they give him life in prison or 10-25 years on Death Row before an execution.

If China catches them, and the party in question has no ways to bribe officials, they get killed.

While I definitely wish a nasty libertarian revolution wipes the smirks off of those pseudo-Marxist idiots in government, the Chinese culture is quite different (I'm half-Chinese, BTW)...American-style "freedom" (what's left of it, that is) would be a big change.
 
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