Choosing an unarmed fighting style...

[atek3]

is a serious task, especially when one lives in the Bay Area, CA, so many choices to choose from. I've read most of the THR archives, and browsed on SDF, and I'm left going
I've studied gunfighting for the past three years and I feel I could 'hold my own' in gun fighting, but within 3 meters or if I wasn't packing I'd be kinda screwed. So that brings me back to unarmed combat.
On one hand we have BJJ partisans like Dave3006, and on the other we have the "If you are serious about self-defense train for combat not for the ring" school as personified by Daniel Flory (pardon me if I'm miscatagorizing either of you two.)
I have a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu dojo fairly close to me and several friends who would train with me, would anyone disagree that it is a good 'starting point' whose last martial arts experience was a year of aikido ten years ago? From there I have options such as a local bunjinkan dojo, an eskrima dojo, and others. Anyone think I'm all wet?

thanks,
atek3

 

[El Tejon]

Not at all, if like the looks of bjj, go for it. It's great, time's a-wasting!

The cool thing about stuff like bjj and judo is that you PRACTICE against other live human beings. Sport or not, you are actually applying it. In fact, in some (maybe most) bjj gyms you start rassling immediately if not sooner and "challenge" fights are common.

Even though it's a "sport" it still has plenty of real application. Sort of like in judo where you take out the safeguards in real application such as not protecting the opponents head. Good stuff and will keep you buff.

You may like arnis/eskrima as it integrates guns and knives well. My bias, I've really fallen in love with FMA.

My view (like it matters, but, hey, it's the Internet): there is just one fighting, divided into several categories--striking, kicking, grappling and throwing. Most do not have time to learn it all in a comprehensive system such as mantis (which I am familiar with) or the like.

Why not focus on something that will highlight a certain category and then cross train later? IMHO, bjj is great and would be an excellent start provided a solid instructor.

 

[atek3]

I hope others agree with you, b/c thats just what I wanted to hear

thanks,
atek3

 

[Soap]

I actually rather like BJJ. But the idea is that you use whatever system as your skeletal system. After you learn the system, then you build on your own interpretations and applications. I would say that the most common fallacy of BJJ, or any system for that matter, teaches you to become too comfortable with physical fighting in a controlled environment. On the street, I would never want to face down a guy like Mark Kerr, but Mark Kerr wouldn't want to face me either since I'm likely armed with a knife or two and a gun or two. My point is to never become comfortable, never become complacent, no matter how much confidence you may have in your chosen system. To elaborate, many have stated that BJJ has won "X" NHB bouts or a "a person I know who did BJJ won a street fight". BJJ is quite good and very interesting, but don't kid yourself into a sense of confidence. Anyone who has been in a real street confrontation can tell you that certain elements are present that they never prepared for. It could be as simple as fighting in dark light or something as complex as getting kicked in your melon when you sink a perfect rear naked choke into someone's buddy. Don't ever think you are unbreakable.

Regarding your personal choice of system, I would try to supplement the BJJ with some simple western boxing and also with some WWII combatives found on http://www.gutterfighting.org

 

[Soap]

I also wanted to add that it is important for you to learn how to fight with your hands and gun in conjunction. Retention drills to accessing your piece while under a hail of blows is very important to know.

 

[El Tejon]

Dan, just a gun or two?

 

[Soap]

Yeah, I'm young and invincible remember? So I don't need to worry about BBUG yet

 

[Smoke]

I also wanted to add that it is important for you to learn how to fight with your hands and gun in conjunction.

Bingo.

ANd be able to transition between the two as the situations escalates or de-escalates.

Just as you would do transitions drills from a shotgun to a handgun, the need applies as much ar maybe even moreso to unarmed tactics.

Whatever style of fighting you choose, make sure it has allowances for transitioning between lots of weapons.

Smoke

 

[La Pistoletta]

Are pistol-whips even anything that might be considered in a fight, or is it just a myth?

 

[atek3]

probably only with an unloaded handgun. I really wouldn't like to attempt a pistol whip on a resisting subject w/ a loaded piece, a successful weapon disarm would place me at a 'severe' disadvantage. Legally, any attack serious enough to warrant a pistol whuppin' lethal force is probably warranted.

atek3

 

[Soap]

I would never pistol whip a person unless I did it as some sort of involuntary reaction. The pistol whip might be okay if the gun is completely unservicable or it is impossible at that point to reload. Here is a video of Paul Castle illustrating a reaction with an unusable gun: http://www.sabretactical.com/C_A_R_/Video_Clips/Reaction.mpg

 

[atek3]

love that video, can't understand a word through the instructor's accent.
He needs the 1911 with the 'tactical strike plate'

atek3

 

[Mute]

Picking an unarmed fighting style is a great deal like picking a personal defense firearm. You need to pick the one that best fits your temperament, strengths and weaknesses and physical abilities. I seriously question anyone who'd tell you go with style A or B and you'll be set. That's just not the case. It also doesn't mean that style A or B is bad either, but you have to put some thought and research into your decision.

 

[SunBear]

Krav Maga is a fairly new system in the US. It emphasizes an explosive physical response to threats. No ten years for a black belt either. From what I've seen it's a very efficient, quickly learned program. Take a look at www.kravmaga.com

 

[MJRW]

In my opinion and experience, the best return for a short investment in training is boxing. It is worth consideration.

 

[Ozendorph]

If the BJJ near you is of a high caliber, jump on it. But it's a good idea to cross-train with a solid standing/striking style.

If you're in it for "the long haul" check out baguazhang or xingyi. Xingyi's striking is just awesome, and bagua (in my opinion) is perhaps the most universally applicable system out there. Bagua's evasive footwork and attack methods are really tough to counter.

Thai boxing or western boxing can also serve as a solid striking art. I've never spent much time on either style, but some of the guys I've worked out with do, and their stand-up game is no joke. A stiff jab and a well-trained thai roundhouse to the knee can get you through a lot of confrontations.

 

[GeneC]

I'll second the Krav maga.

 

[orangeninja]

BJJ is great for ground fighting. You may want to learn a couple of Muy Thai blocks, strikes and kicks to get things rolling though. BJJ kind of takes for granted that you WILL be hit. Muy Thai, if done correctly will enable you to absorb a baseball bat strike, no kidding. I'm not an expert in it, but I did learn enough to work in a bar as a floor walker. I am confident in my ability to absorb a pool stick....albiet I'm not excited at the prospect....but I can still fight. Also it is very easy to learn using gross muscle movement. Sound familiar?

 

[firearms_instructor]

ANY martial art is better than none...

Ultimately, choosing a martial arts system is a lot like choosing a carry pistol. Ideally you choose what's most comfortable and useful for you, but your buying decision may be influenced by factors such as what's available where you are and cost, etc.

I've tried Aikido, Jiu Jitsu, Judo, Kung Fu, and Tae Kwon Do (I moved around a lot in my youth so I wasn't in one place long enough to master any particular style), and I was better at Tae Kwon Do than anything else, because I lived near the TKD school longer than I lived near the other schools.

But since you asked for a recommendation, I recommend SCARS:
www.scars.com

I attended their 3-day training camp, and it rocks.

But Jiu-Jitsu is useful stuff. I once subdued a berserk fellow employee with a judo hold.

 

[atek3]

dude, for 1500 dollars I hope that class comes with super secret death touch. HOLY molly, 2500 for level 2, I hope that one comes with the 'shooting laser beams from eyes' technology. Please tell me your department paid for that or you are independantly wealthy.

atek3

 

[atek3]

okay now that I've got that out of my system. What is the Peterson Gestalt Method of knowledge induction. My peeve w/ the intensive tactical fighting classes is knowledge retention. I took a two day knife/stick/groundfighting/hth class with felix valencia, GREAT class, learned lots, three days later I couldn't remember a thing! Drilling move after move for me at least doesn't build retention, only the slow gradual accumulation of knowledge that I can't see getting in a 30 hour 3 day class.

atek3

 

[Soap]

IMHO seminars or even week long classes are worthless to a person who hasn't built up a basic skill set first. If I were just starting out, I would spend most of my time hitting the speedbag, heavy bag, lifting weights, and running. During this time I would also study the WWII combatives manuals since they provide extremely simple responses. Once I developed a reasonable amount of strength and coordination, I would move on to learn something like judo to supplement the striking skills. Once I had these basic skills in place, I would move on to whatever interests me in MA. Just remember when you get into the higher levels that it is important to practice your basics the most frequently. In a real fight, you may only use two techniques vs. the hundred or so that you know.

 

[Sawdust]

You say that you have friends who would be available to train with if you went with BJJ. This is very important; it is nigh impossible to learn an art if you don't have anyone to train with.

Having said that, may I suggest that you consider Wing Chun. This is a traditonal Chinese art that is designed for close quarters combat and to end the conflict in a short time. It is a hard art - you *will* get hit. But that's a good thing, as you will learn to take a punch and brush it off.

Hardly any kicking, and none at long range. Not an art for cardiovascular exercise. Wing Chun was designed for combat, and for the practitioner to be somewhat effective in a short time (however, to *master* the art takes a long time).

No flowery moves and very minimal forms. There are many practitioners in the Bay area. Find a sifu who has been trained and certified by Augustine Fong (shameless plug for my lineage )

HTH,

Sawdust

 

[firearms_instructor]

Ssshhh! Dammit!

We're not sposed to talk about the 'shooting laser beams from eyes' technology.

Seriously though, I went to the course on my own nickel when I was making good money.

The Peterson Gestalt Method of knowledge induction is basically neuro-linguistic programming applied to hand-to-hand combat. They cover the proper mindset for fighting before even getting into any techniques. The techniques themselves are all based on your opponent's autokinematic responses (the natural body response to attack and pain). His tape sets are less expensive and useful especially if you have a training partner.

Daniel Flory had an excellent point about developing a solid foundation first. Judo would be a good first art to learn. I can't tell you how many times I avoided injury while slipping or falling because of all the breakfall practice we did in Judo.

 

[GeneC]

I'd say a good foundation is getting your body in top physical conditioning of that of a MMA fighter, who goes 5-6 rounds of boxing , 30 min of Muay Thai kickboxing and then 30 min of BJJ grappling, before or after a run up stadium stairs, increasing the # every time. There is no short cut path to self defense, it's a life time practice and ultimately , when your time comes, it'll be a combo of you being more fit than your opponent, keeping a cool head and having Lady Luck on your side, whatever you choose. The main thing is choose something and give it your all.