Civillian SCAR!?!

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I know an FN representative. I asked him about a civilian SCAR and he told me that they had produce a whole bunch of them, BUT the military bought every last one of them because they liked them so much:cuss:. He had no idea when they would be available. He did mention that it was the finest weapon he has ever shot:)
 
That thing is ugly, so very ugly. All synthetic and covered in rails. I would never want to own one of those.



I sure as dirt wouldn't mind it if one of my friends owned one, though. ;)
 
I know an FN representative. I asked him about a civilian SCAR and he told me that they had produce a whole bunch of them, BUT the military bought every last one of them because they liked them so much. He had no idea when they would be available. He did mention that it was the finest weapon he has ever shot

Well, naturally an FN representative will say that a product produced by the company he represents is the "finest weapon he has ever shot". If someone who was not part of FN with credible weapon review credentials said that, it would be worth something to those of us who are possible customers. I remember back with the XM8 was making its run for military contracts it was all over future weapons with H&K reps saying it was the best military rifle currently in existance.....go figure.
 
Well, naturally an FN representative will say that a product produced by the company he represents is the "finest weapon he has ever shot". If someone who was not part of FN with credible weapon review credentials said that, it would be worth something to those of us who are possible customers. I remember back with the XM8 was making its run for military contracts it was all over future weapons with H&K reps saying it was the best military rifle currently in existance.....go figure.

A review by someone not from FN.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=24&t=234693
 
Hmm might have to buy one then just dura coat it a Matte black. Or do a bengal tiger scheme like on page two...lol
 
I'm still kind of hung up on these three.

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SCAR in .223 is of no interest for me. Now if they have it in 6.8SPC, heck yeah! But of course this all depends on costs as well. If it's priced like their FS2000, I'll be looking for a DSA FAL or PTR 91.
 
Well, naturally an FN representative will say that a product produced by the company he represents is the "finest weapon he has ever shot".

I don't know about that. I know an FN rep who likes the FiveSeven and PS90, but doesn't think much of the 5.7 round. Then again, I'm not a customer so maybe he's not worried about losing sales. ;)
 

My only question is, what other weapons has he handled besides FN? Has he handed the XM8, HK 416, HK G36, XCR, Masada,....etc? I have read dozens of user reviews on a weapon system in which a couple of months later they get ahold of a competator's product and they do a 180. Basically, they don't have enough experience with enough weapon systems to give a really valuable opinion. For example, a Clint Smith review would be VERY helpful.

Just for reference:

Army press release:

Army tests carbines for the third time in extreme dust
Dec 17, 2007

Recently Army testing laboratories at Aberdeen Proving Ground, Maryland,
subjected the M4 carbine and three other weapons to a severe environmental
test called the "Carbine Extreme Dust Test." The lab environment allowed
engineers to push the weapons beyond their technical limits to better inform
and understand what is required for the most capable weapons on the current
battlefield. This was the third such test for the Army's carbine of choice,
the M4.

The weapons were exposed to "heavy dusting," similar to an intense and
sustained dust storm, several times for 25 hours. There were ten weapons of
each of the four different types of carbines. Each fired 6,000 rounds
(60,000 rounds per type). Individually, each weapon fired fifty 120 round
cycles with minimal cleaning and lubrication (wiped and lubed every 600
rounds; fully cleaned after every 1,200 rounds). The maintenance performed
during the test was the equivalent to not performing even minimal cleaning
of the weapon until after firing nearly three basic loads of ammunition (a
Soldier's basic load is 210 rounds).

The Army noted all the weapons in the test performed well: the number of
stoppages all the carbines exhibited was roughly one percent or less of the
total rounds fired by each, meaning the weapons had over a 98% reliability
rate under these unique conditions. Though the M4 performed exceptionally
well, it came in fourth compared to the other three carbines in this
particular extreme single-environment (dust as the only condition) testing.
The Army is taking these test results seriously. These preliminary results
revealed or confirmed several areas for potential materiel improvements to
the M4 and the other weapon types in the test. A full analysis of the test
data is expected in several weeks, and the Army will evaluate those areas
that can be improved.

The M4 in particular is a weapon subjected to intense scrutiny and remains
one of the most improved pieces of Army equipment: there have been over
390 improvements since it was introduced into the force. But it has become
one of the most popular weapons in the Army inventory: every post-combat
survey taken in the last several years shows an almost 90% approval rating
for the M4 among Soldiers. Official requests and "operational needs
statements" from the combat zones show the M4 as the weapon of choice for its size,
weight, versatility and performance.

Soldiers shared their comments about the M4 in recent surveys. "The M4 was
an extremely dependable weapon system," writes a 10th Mountain Division
(Light Infantry) command sergeant major who served in Afghanistan. "We
operated at extreme elevations (10,000 feet) along with extreme climate
changes from one end of the spectrum to the other. I cannot remember any
occasions where an M4 malfunctioned or failed to perform."

A 10th Mountain first sergeant writes "Of all the weapons that I have fired
in the Army, I like the M4 best."

Similar comments come from other Army divisions. "The 101st has no issues
with the M4 and, as a matter of fact the Soldiers of all MOS's to include
cooks, mechanics, administrative clerks and nurses are getting very
proficient with the M4," writes a 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault)
command sergeant major.

"While I am confident in the reliability, accuracy and effectiveness of the
M4 in today's fight because of what Soldiers tell us, we're never satisfied
with good enough," said General Dick Cody, the Army's Vice Chief of Staff.
"We will look at the test results when they are complete and assess any
needed adjustments to the M4. We will also determine if our requirements
need to change for this weapon."

"The Soldier in the field is our number one priority," Secretary of the Army
Pete Geren said. "And that means testing our equipment to the highest of
standards so that we can understand and improve their performance in the
harshest of conditions. Our commitment is to continue to field the best
equipped and best trained fighting force in
the world."

Results:
XM8: 127 stoppages/malfunctions

Mk16 SCAR-L: 226 stoppages/malfunctions

HK416: 233 stoppages/malfunctions

M4 Carbine: 882 stoppages/malfunctions


Robinson Arms apparently tried to duplicate this test with the XCR and they got a stoppage rate of 188. I don't have any confirmation of this though. They attribute it to the bolt assembly design which uses a more robust three lug system which seems to handle dust and debris in the action better. The HK 416, Masada, and FN SCAR use the traditional 8 lug rotating bolt which tends to not engage in a solid lockup with debris in the action. The XM8 has a 6 lug bolt with a similar gas system design to that of the XCR which as you can see by the testing seems to be more reliable.

Just one man's opinion, but I think the XM8 was a better choice over the SCAR. The only problem with the XM8 was that it needed a redesigned forend in aluminum alloy due to melting forend problems with the polymer. Polymer acts as an insulator, not a conductor of heat as alloys do, so barrel heat was getting trapped and causing parts to melt under high volumes of fire.
 
My only question is, what other weapons has he handled besides FN? Has he handed the XM8, HK 416, HK G36, XCR, Masada,....etc? I have read dozens of user reviews on a weapon system in which a couple of months later they get ahold of a competator's product and they do a 180. Basically, they don't have enough experience with enough weapon systems to give a really valuable opinion. For example, a Clint Smith review would be VERY helpful.

That does not nullify the review however. Does this review offer a good cross comparison of designs? No. Does the reviewer have experience with multiple weapon systems? That is not clear; from the review you know that he has experience with the AR-15 design. The review does provide some insight to the weapon. Is it perfect? No, but it does add a perspective that is not from FN.
 
I think they'll get it over here, once things are worked out and they're allowed in.

I'm still hoping for a Masada, but might go with an HK93 if that looks to not happen.

Not to derail, but if Hillary is calling the shots, they'll not just be banned from sale, but fully restricted (and you'll be out the XCR/etc cash).
 
so any new of this happening? i'm starting to feel like it's more vaporware than the masada...
 
Cue El Tejon and a unicorn jpeg.

Masada/ACR isn't vaporware, at least not yet. AFAIK, neither Magpul nor Bushmaster have missed a promised delivery date for the rifle. The XCR is still winning this race, though, by actually being obtainable by mere mortals such as ourselves.

Mike
 
What's this? A request for the ubertactical Vaporware FN SCAR?

Why, I just happen to have photos of the civilian SCAR right here: http://www.lair2000.net/Unicorn_Dreams/Unicorn_Mating/Unicorn_Mating.html

:neener:

triny, there is nothing new to report, nothing but the crickets, aaahhh, the crickets. *chirp, chirp*:D

Wait, I see a SCAR--it's right by the American-made Heckler und Koch 91s made in Columbus, Georgia. No, now it's hiding behind those Ruger XGIs! They are all around us!
 
Its doubtful that any new AWs will make it to the market before the next AWB at the end of the year. Second the Masada is now the Bushmaster ACR. I would stock up now on the current AWs, and not wait for vaporware.
 
there's an assault weapons ban in the works? i understand that the dems are likely to get office but the wheels of government turn slowly.... if they started it when they got into office it'd be at least 2010 til we saw anything wouldn't it?
 
there's an assault weapons ban in the works? i understand that the dems are likely to get office but the wheels of government turn slowly.... if they started it when they got into office it'd be at least 2010 til we saw anything wouldn't it?

The Dems will have a super majority after the next election in which to enact anything they want. The leftist who will be in charge will do everything in their power to get a new AWB by Dec, at the latest early next year. The gun manufactures are well aware of this, and that is why they are not introducing new AWs because they fear they will not make their return on their investment.
 
FN SCAR (semi-auto only civilian version) pics

Here are some pics of the semi-auto only civilian legal version that is being made by FN USA.

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Last I heard, FN is still trying for a Q4 2008 - Q1 2009 release time frame for the 5.56x45mm SCAR and a Q1 2009 - Q2 2009 release time frame for the 7.62x51mm SCAR.
 
cbsbyte said:
The Dems will have a super majority after the next election in which to enact anything they want.

Really? Which Republicans are going to lose their seats in 2008?

Even if McCain wins he will still sign a new AWB if passed by the congress. Either way we lose.

Uh... McCain has voted against the AWB every time it has come up for a vote and opposed it even during his 2000 campaign when he received over $2 million from Americans for Gun Safety. Why would he suddenly start supporting it after he was elected?
 
Guys, if you cannot put your foot on the gun, then it is all vaporware. This is the gun industry and for decades the gun industry has been telling us poor beaten gun owners that they love us and promised guns never materialize.

If you cannot touch a gun, it does not exist.
 
The SCAR-H weights 7.2 lbs....

trbon8r said:
The only reason not to buy an XCR would be whether or not Robinson decides to support the rifle in the future....

Or you want a .308/7.62 NATO semi-auto rifle that weighs less than an XCR. For me, the weight is its compelling feature; assuming the trigger is acceptable (any comments from someone who's shot the semi-auto only version?) except for sling attachment points it appears to be a Scout.

Makes weight, length, the rail on top allows you to mount any sort of sighting device you want at any eye relief, and the iron sights should be very good and you can of course replace the rear one.

They achieved this the same way Styer did: plastic furniture, aluminum receiver, light hammer forged barrel.

Having mild RSI from too many decades of programming, I'm planning on getting an SCAR-H next year (or whenever they have surplus production for civilians). I'm not too worried about the political situation: while it's guaranteed we'll get an anti-gun President next year (look at McCain's actions after he lost the 2000 nomination, when I presume he turned on us and others who didn't grant him it), even a more Democratic Congress won't want a return to the wilderness like they experienced for a dozen years starting in 1994.

Their actions in passing the "Veterans Disarmament Bill" this year, not putting it to a recorded vote after I assume a House committee, and passing it in the House after almost everyone had gone home for the holiday (in violation of the rules, naturally) was not exactly a Profile In Courage, and shows they know this is still a radioactive issue.

And why wouldn't they have already passed an AW ban renewal after 2006? GW Bush has been on record forever saying he'll sign one if it lands on his desk, and for better or worse he seems to keep his word. Sure, they want one, but they want to keep their seats and majority power more. They'll cling to those while we'll cling to our guns ^_^.

I've asked many people on many forums what will change to make the Democrats in the Congress feel safe in passing major "in your face" anti-gun legislation that will get signed, and I've yet to get a reply.

- Harold
 
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