Clint Smith On Shotguns

[Dave Williams]

Benelli tactical semi auto shotguns are awesome guns! Benelli tactical semi auto shotguns are pieces of crap!

People who own and train with them love them, like Dave3006. He reported seeing guys with pump guns in training classes have nothing but operator induced malfunctions with their guns while he hummed along with his Benelli. Another guy whose name escapes me reported that at the class he attended they had to have two seperate shootoffs at the end of his class, one for guys with pump guns, and the other for guys with Benellis, because the guys with autos were just so fast! Major PDs SWAT units like LAPD, Cleveland, Detroit, El Paso, and lot's of smaller units all have guys/did have guys with Benellis at the front of their entry teams. One of them recently triple tapped a guy reaching for a .45 in his waistband at a drug house, result???? DRT In a suburb of Akron a few years ago, a plainclothes cop on duty responded to a bank robbery in progress and a gunfight ensued. He hosed down the cab of the robbers truck with the 14" Benelli he had been responsible for issuing to his PD, result? DRT

There's a reason these PDs like these guns, there is a lot of "firepower" available for the close range fight.

Anchorage SWAT dumped their Benelli tactical shotguns because they were finicky and unreliable for Vang 870s. I think I read that LAPD SWAT has to clean and lube their Benellis every day and use 3" magnum ammo to keep them reliable. Scott Reitz used to carry the Benelli on LAPD SWAT. His choice of shotgun nowadays? 870 Hmmmmm Clint Smith had a Benelli malfunction on tape!!!

I had a female ride along a few years ago who weighed 120lbs soaking wet. Took her down to the range an let her do mag dump after mag dump with a 18" Benelli M1 Super 90. It was an awesome sight of close range firepower, a lot of lead downrange in a short time period with a person with no experience whatsoever with a shotgun, she would never have been able to do so with a pump gun. I have done one handed mag dumps with the same gun, I think it is an awesome gun. They are very popular police shotguns in this area. I would feel very well armed with a Benelli. I feel very well armed with an 870 or a single or double also.

Dave Williams

 

[DMR]

Clint has it right tools are tools. Use what you have. I have a wish list of firearms I would LIKE to have, but I seldom buy them because what I have does what I need them do.

If I had to build a house and all I had was a hammer and hand saw would I quit? We all know, after all, you can't build a house without power tools, air compressors, ect. Trouble is some forgot to tell folks like the Amish it can be done. Around here I've seen the Amish replace barns that burned down in less then a week using hand tools. Give the same job to a normal crew with power tools ect and it may take a month.

Bottom line gear is not the solution, training and mindset are.

 

[Defensory]

Posted by DMR:
Clint has it right tools are tools. Use what you have. I have a wish list of firearms I would LIKE to have, but I seldom buy them because what I have does what I need them do.

Clint doesn't have it right. You've got to have the RIGHT tool for the RIGHT job. Different jobs require different tools.

If you're the victim of a home invasion involving three or four perpetrators armed with high capacity semi-auto handguns , a single-shot shotgun is the WRONG tool for the job. You'll almost certainly be killed or at least seriously injured, while attempting to reload.

A high capacity semi-auto shotgun will give you MUCH better odds of surviving, since you won't have to reload repeatedly.

 

[JShirley]

Clint doesn't have it right. You've got to have the RIGHT tool for the RIGHT job. Different jobs require different tools.

I think you mean to say there are better tools for some jobs. Right now, you're mostly just succeeding in alienating other members.

Yeah, so a reliable semi-auto with which the user has practiced is most likely a better choice than a single shot. (Though my father could take multiple shots on running rabbits with a single.)

Further, you're going to have to produce a body of work many years long before I give you 1/10th the credence of Clint Smith. I met Clint a few years ago, and he's solid. You? Who are you?

John

 

[PJR]

A high capacity semi-auto shotgun will give you MUCH better odds of surviving, since you won't have to reload repeatedly.

Not if you panic and just open fire without selecting your targets.

Not if you don't have a plan and or have practiced with your shotgun.

Not if you don't have the fortitude to shoot another person.

If you spend $2,000 on a Benelli M4 with all the fancy gizmos and believe that's all you need do then that's advice that can get someone killed.

Mindset, a plan, practice and determination are what give you MUCH better odds regardless of firearm.

I have nothing against semi-autos and own a couple but for my own reasons prefer a pump gun for serious matters. I don't think swapping for a Benelli would improve my odds one bit. If I did I'd buy one.

 

[Defensory]

Posted by PJR:
Not if you panic and just open fire without selecting your targets.

Anyone can panic, regardless of what type of shotgun they have. It depends on the individual, not their shotgun action type. Personally, if four armed invaders busted in my house and all I had was a single-shot shotgun to fend them off, I'd be FAR MORE likely to panic. Confidence in yourself and your weapon is critical in that sort of situation, and I'd be MUCH MORE confident knowing I had 8 or 9 rounds of buckshot without having to reload.

Not if you don't have a plan and or have practiced with your shotgun.

Again, it depends on the individual rather than the action type. There are God knows how many people who own singles, doubles and pumps---who don't have a plan and don't practice.

Not if you don't have the fortitude to shoot another person.

Yet another statement that is utterly irrelevant to what type of shotgun action you have.

If you spend $2,000 on a Benelli M4 with all the fancy gizmos and believe that's all you need do then that's advice that can get someone killed.

Please show me precisely where I said that you have to spend "$2,000 on a Benelli M4 with all the fancy gizmos". A good Remington or Mossberg semi-auto can probably be had for roughly a third of that amount.

I've never given any such advice, so please stop making baseless assumptions.

Mindset, a plan, practice and determination are what give you MUCH better odds regardless of firearm.

Oh, but the type of firearm DOES make a MAJOR difference. All other things being equal, a person with a semi-auto will fare FAR BETTER in a situation involving multiple armed perps.

I have nothing against semi-autos and own a couple but for my own reasons prefer a pump gun for serious matters. I don't think swapping for a Benelli would improve my odds one bit. If I did I'd buy one.

You're making baseless assumptions again. I never said somebody had to have a Benelli semi-auto. Remington, Mossberg, FNH, Franchi and several other companies make fine semi-autos.

 

[PJR]

Personally, if four armed invaders busted in my house and all I had was a single-shot shotgun to fend them off, I'd be FAR MORE likely to panic. Confidence in yourself and your weapon is critical in that sort of situation, and I'd be MUCH MORE confident knowing I had 8 or 9 rounds of buckshot without having to reload.

We are different individuals then. My confidence doesn't come from a gun. It comes from my plan and practice. You take your confidence from hardware. I'll take mine from software.

As for the irrelevance of fortitude, it doesn't matter what type of gun you have if you are not prepared to use it. That is quite relevant to the discussion. Frankly, it's where any HD discussion should begin.

Remington, Mossberg, FNH, Franchi and several other companies make fine semi-autos.

I've stated on this board previously that I would not trust my life to a Remington semi-auto. I've owned a couple and have had them go out of service midstream due to broken action bars and a broken link.

If you have more confidence with a semi-auto then good for you. But I don't agree that the ONLY gun to have is a semi-auto, nor would I insist that it is "MUCH MORE" suitable than other action types. In the larger scheme of things there are far more important considerations that must be made.

That is Smith's point. And it is one that no one should dismiss or overlook.

 

[Jeff White]

Defensory said;

If you're the victim of a home invasion involving three or four perpetrators armed with high capacity semi-auto handguns , a single-shot shotgun is the WRONG tool for the job. You'll almost certainly be killed or at least seriously injured, while attempting to reload.

What kind of lifestyle do you lead that you consider this a real possibility? Are you a drug dealer? Do you keep large amounts of cash and jewelry in your house and everyone knows about it? Have you angered the local members of a criminal organization?

Seriously man, your worst case scenario that calls for maximum firepower is more suited to a movie script then it is to real life. Of all the ways an average person can become a crime victim, home invasion is the least likely to occur.

But lets say that you are a victim of a home invasion where you are facing multiple opponents armed with high capacity semi auto handguns. You are now in the gunfight to end all gunfights. What is the capacity of your extended tube semi auto shotgun? Seven? Eight?

Ever been in a gunfight? Ever even shot a realistic course of fire on the range where you were moving and the targets were moving? Or how about force on force training? Do you have any experience with high stress shooting on the move at multiple moving targets? Have any idea how easy it is to miss at typical in home ranges? So how many of the bad guys are you going to kill with your eight rounds while you are moving and they are moving and you are under fire?

There are several ways a person with training can prevail with a pump, side by side or single shot in your fantasy scenario.

Ever heard of shoot one, load one? Let me tell you my friend, even with your eight round extended tube, you need to shoot one load one or before you get a chance to replay the scenes in the movie The Replacement Killers in your mind, you're going to be wishing for cover so you can reload your extended magazine, semi automatic shotgun.

You fight with your mind. The tools you use are largely irrelevant. Ever hear of a come as you are war? When the fight comes to you, you're going to have to fight with what you have, not what you wish you have. You are handicapping yourself by believing that you can't win unless you are armed with your personal idea of the ultimate weapon. Your mind is the weapon.

Mindset and training wins fights. If I have to pick someone to back me up on a dynamic entry, I'll pick the guy who has the right mindset and training even if he's handicapped with a less then optimal weapon, over the guy who carries the ultimate combat shotgun and things that he's ready to take on all comers because he has it.

Jeff

 

[The_Rambler]

Jeff is correct.

If I had to pick between a guy that had an old, worn 870 or a guy with a brand new Benelli, I would pick they guy with the 870. Why? He knows what he's doing if he put wear marks in it.

Reguardless of what you have, you have to train. No Matter what. No exceptions.

-Nick

 

[Brian Williams]

For me to have anything more than a single shot shotgun would be a problem. I have trained and shot a single shot gun and have not ever fired a large capacity semi-auto shotgun. A semi auto gun would be a detriment to me in a fight. I would be better off with my revolver because I know it. If an extended tube semi-auto shotgun was all I had, It would do my best but I might die. I am not trained in any way to resist a dynamic entry and probably should do so but my schedule and finances prohibit this. I have a nice Win1300 and have fired it some, but the Marlin 1894 and the S&W revolvers I have would serve me better. My mindset and training.

 

[rbernie]

My confidence doesn't come from a gun. It comes from my plan and practice. You take your confidence from hardware. I'll take mine from software.

This should be emblazoned at the top of every forum.

 

[Youngster]

An autoloader is my home defence tool of choice. I think they're the most efficent thing going under relatively benign conditions where they'll recieve a lot of care, but if it comes to roughing it any, make mine a pump.

 

[Dirty Bob]

In many HD situations, the defender is allowed to cheat. It's just two of us at home most of the time, so I'm not likely to need to go hunting trouble if someone's in my house or my backyard. I'll call the cops and wait in the most advantageous spot my wife and I can find at the moment.

When some guys tried to kick down my front door (they found out steel doors in steel frames don't kick in like they do on TV), I was waiting in the dark at 90 degrees to the door, at their right if they had come in. I doubt it would have been a scene worthy of an action movie, but I probably would have fired the first shot, before they saw me.

How many bad guys, when they encounter unexpected gunfire from a concealed shooter, are going to charge in anyway?

In many HD situations, I firmly believe that tactics, mindset and skill (gained through practice with the weapon in your hands) are far more important than hardware. Given that belief, I have trouble imagining a situation in which I need more than a 12 ga. or 20 ga. pump.

Regards,
Dirty Bob

 

[seeker_two]

If you're the victim of a home invasion involving three or four perpetrators armed with high capacity semi-auto handguns , a single-shot shotgun is the WRONG tool for the job. You'll almost certainly be killed or at least seriously injured, while attempting to reload.

Short of having multiple claymores mounted around your position, you'll be pretty much screwed with ANY firearm in this situation.....

Besides, after the first invader is shot, the determination of those following will fall dramatically.... (unless you're the target of an active jihad.....if so, see paragraph above...)

With practice, I can run my coach gun fast enough to keep up with my BIL's pump gun. And, while he's a better wing-shooter, I can hit the big stuff on legs just a little faster....and without that embarassing "short-stroking" problem....

Dance most with the gal you brought to the party, and practice dancin' often....

 

[TAB]

Chances are pretty good that if you have 3 or 4 armed attackers coming after you, your dead anyways. Does not matter if your armed with a single shot or belt fed machine gun.

 

[sm]

Dave Williams wrote:
Benelli tactical semi auto shotguns are awesome guns! Benelli tactical semi auto shotguns are pieces of crap!

This is true of any firearm, mfg, platform or ammunition.

Dave, thank you for a great post as always.
Folks, the reality is, anything can and will break, and everything has pros and cons.

It is the user of a tool that makes that tool effective, not the tool itself.

There is no one-size-fits all, no ultimate, no holy grail, on anything.
What "fits" one for task, may not fit another for task.

i.e. I tried to get a Armored Car Company to let the folks in the car use a full stock shotgun, I really did.
I demonstrated with the decision makers of the Armored Co., in a live fire demo, using various full stocked shotguns, especially the issued 870 pump , which they issued with PGO.

I shot 870s, 1300s, SX1s, Beretta 303, Browning B-80...man I really tried to get my point across how I understood PGO was issued, and the reasons, strategies and tactics, still in the vehicle, where there is a person always, a full stocked shotgun being fired through ports had some advantages.

No.
I tried, oh I tried, still the decision was no.
I still used a full stock to teach and instruct, before transitioning to the issued
PGO.
I finally harped enough to get some .410s fixed up PGO.
I take this stuff serious, and I wanted correct basics instilled, and my call to use baby steps.
This all paid off.

I don't care what some might say my methods, some of these folks were former LEO and Military and honest to goodness appreciated my concerns for their safety and taking it one step at a time, to get the basics down.
Less felt recoil from a .410 PGO allows good habits to be instilled.
Shooting from inside a vehicle, with ports, is not as easy as it sounds.

Jeff White wrote:
What kind of lifestyle do you lead that you consider this a real possibility? Are you a drug dealer? Do you keep large amounts of cash and jewelry in your house and everyone knows about it? Have you angered the local members of a criminal organization?

Some folks not in LE, or Military, just regular folks are hi-risk.
Retired LEOs, Correction Officers and even some Military folks, such as MP, still have enemies, that do not wish them good health.

I was brought up in a hi-risk industry.
I have never been a LEO or served in the Military.

There are those regular citizens, that are in a higher risk settings.
"Gun" is not the first thing they are taught.

ADEE is best, and the gun, in this case a shotgun ,is only one tool in the tool box of staying safe.

Multiple bad guys?
Yep, I have been there and done that.
Not all were inside a structure, some were outdoors b/t structures, and some situations involved moving vehicles going down the road.

I cannot go around with a long gun, slung.
Neither can others in a higher risk setting.

My take is, one of the worst things one can do is impede the ability to free think, think out of the box, improvise, adapt, overcome by fixating on "gun" and especially one particular make, model , gauge, set up and ammo.

Blind faith will get one hurt or dead.

-Going down the highway, with 3 cars, six bad guys, how am I supposed employ a Benelli doing 70 miles an hour?
They are shooting guns, and bumping into the car?



-Three folks enter the front of a structure, shooting guns, and busting up glass with tire tools.
I honestly chose to get the 8 month old pregnant employee out the hidden exit to safety.
We had not been noticed yet.
I could not safely save the others up front, practiced plans, they knew, it was understood what to do.

I get the pregnant lady to safety ( business next door) call Police Direct, and snag a Model 94 in 30-30 to stay on the phone and observe and report.

I do not regret my decision.
Mdse was insured, employees had training in all this, and yes...there were guns accessible.
Mdse was given up, nobody got hurt, and criminals left.
Employees tied / cuffed.

Hi Risk and practiced plans, and understood.

Oh since some will ask, S&W K frames, most were Model 10s, some 64s, and the loading was standard pressure 158 LSWC , were scattered and/or were CCW-ed by employees.
Shotguns, were 1100 in 20 ga.

Employees shot a lot of guns and these platforms were two I knew from years of experience already fit folks.
Employees got to shoot to see what fit them, and all agreed so we bought these, and plenty of ammo, and let some LEOs and Military folks give private lessons.
Body Guards gave other lessons, and some Undercover cops gave even more.

They had private places to go shoot, and as often as they wanted, and the boss man picked up the tab for ammo, guns, - everything!

There is no start button in life when the situation gets serious.
One does not get to fiddle fart with gun, eyes , ears and for sure go check out the stage.

That .44 mag going off towards the ceiling, the tire tools breaking glass and criminals shouting , is your start button.

What are you going to do?
Right now!
With what you have, or don't have?


I cannot carry a long gun slung out to eat in a restaurant either.
I started tossing napkin dispensers, glass pitchers of beer and all the while moving, scooting, going under tables, over chairs and gaining distance to an exit.

Practiced plans, lady partner heads for the exit, I give cover tossing stuff.
Beats a shoot out in a joint where normal patrons get caught in a cross fire...
Back door is clear, she runs to vehicle, I use trash cans and all to block door and scan, she drives up, I jump in and we take off!

Legitimate business, just if they get me, or her, or...they get stuff.
Stuff is insured.
Problem is, some folks hurt folks, or worse, once the mdse is given up.
Not to mention hurting folks, or worse because of information we have about others.

I and mine did a lot of lessons with no gun, or knife, but dealing with stuff.
One cannot always have a gun or knife, so one is best to not learn on a crutch , some basic fundamentals about staying safe.

 

[RioShooter]

The best reload is another gun--so there is an AK(and plenty of loaded magazines) sitting right next to that shotgun.

That's also my strategy. I keep a Mossberg 500 next to the bed, and as a fall-back position, an SKS in the Master bath.

That's all fine and good for YOU, but millions of people can't afford multiple firearms. We're talking defensive shotguns here, so we're presuming that a shotgun is the only weapon that we'll have access to in a SHTF situation.

I bought my Mossberg at a pawn shop for $125 and my SKS from SOG for $180. That should fit into most budgets.

 

[squinty]

The gun you got"

I saw a clip on guntalktv.com with Mr. Smith discussing Autopistol vs. revolver for SD...somewhere along the way he said something very similar: "If I have a revolver I'll defend myself with a revolver, If I have an Auto I'll defend myself with an Auto, it's about getting comfortable defending yourself with what you got."

Or something like that, I've liked His work ever since,

My $0.02

RFB

And if all I have is a baseball bat or a claw hammer, or my teeth and fingernails for that matter, I'll defend myself with those - but I'd much rather have my 870 Marine Magnum, and I'm glad I have it.

That said, if someone pointed any kind of scattergun in my direction I would get really worried about my health, regardless of the type of action - I don't want to be shot with a single shot, pump, over under, side by side, semiauto or any other kind of shotgun, and neither will any sort of bad guys who come into your home.

 

[TAB]

posted in wrong thread... too many windows open...

 

[Wheeler44]

Defensory, we have discussed this issue in several threads on several sub-forums here at the high road. Read the words these folks have written. I assure you that they know of what they speak.
I can assure you that I can empty a box of ammo through a Win. 97, an Ithaca 37, a Stevens 520 as fast as any non-demonstration shooter can shoot a box through an auto.
And I'm not that good. I know folks that could do it with a single or SxS.

Autoloader shotguns and high-cap wondernines and AR clones are great, especially for training up large groups to the quickest "minimum" proficiency.
Are they the best for everybody? I will let the fact that many here and others that I know (and trust with the life of my family) haven't thrown out their useless and self endangering pumps, side by sides and breaktops out just because YOU think they suck.

I won't have a fancy auto at my next gunfight, so I guess I'd better practice more with my pump.

Oh, and a side note , my favorite "new" shotgun is a $50.00 Stevens 520, double whaleback w/ a suicide safety. The inertia block is defective. I have to hit the slide release before I rack the pump. Thing is I do it subconsciously. Don't even remember doin' it , ya see it really is the "software" and not the "hardware".

 

[357wheelgunner]

In the event of a home invasion involving multiple armed perpetrators, you'll wish you had practiced that "takticul high speed stuff". It could be the difference between life and death for a gun owner and their family. I take my self-defense seriously. Sorry to see you don't.

I almost spit root beer out of my nose laughing at this.

The statistical likelihood of me being engaged in the taktikul gun forum guys wet dream SHTF situation is next to nonexistent. I practice enough to do what needs doing, and nothing else. You can continue to practice being Delta Force or space shuttle door gunner, I have other things to do.

Then I spit it out of my mouth instead when I read this. Awesome quote.

If you're the victim of a home invasion involving three or four perpetrators armed with high capacity semi-auto handguns , a single-shot shotgun is the WRONG tool for the job. You'll almost certainly be killed or at least seriously injured, while attempting to reload.
Oh, but the type of firearm DOES make a MAJOR difference. All other things being equal, a person with a semi-auto will fare FAR BETTER in a situation involving multiple armed perps.

No "pet theory" to it. In a home invasion situation involving multiple armed perpetrators, a high capacity semi-automatic shotgun is clearly superior to a single shot or double barrel, whether the shooter is a novice or an expert.

live in a tri-level. If three armed perps carrying semi-auto handguns entered through the front door, there would be NO escape if I were on either of the top two levels of the house.

There would be NO way to out-flank them. I would HAVE to fight. I would be dead for sure if I had a single shot. With a high-capacity semi-auto, I'd have a CONSIDERABLY better chance of surviving.

The perps aren't going to pause while you reload a single shot, and to take out three perps you'd have to reload at least twice. And that's assuming NO misses, which is a rarity in a shootout situation.

The perps aren't going to just stand there when you raise that single shot, they'll be shooting and diving for cover. A single shot would be a death sentence. Having to break the gun open , insert a shell, close it up, aim and fire---all under extreme stress while being fired upon by multiple perps---means you're going to be a dead man.

You don't know what a "perp" will do. Bad situations are as dynamic as anything, the worst thing you can do is assume that you know what you are talking about. Just prepare the best you can, and take things as they come with a cool head. Most of your fantasies would most likely end in real life after the first round is fired in self defense.

Edited to add:

In all seriousness, I wanted to compliment you on your ability to remain calm when so many are discussing this pushing as many buttons as possible. Internet debates are fun until people get too serious. I prefer sarcasm to rage, I hope this thread continues this way.

My confidence doesn't come from a gun. It comes from my plan and practice. You take your confidence from hardware. I'll take mine from software.

Best line in the thread.

This makes me think of the 300 lb guys at gunshows wearing bdus with mag pouches, Asp batons, pepper spray, etc hanging off of their belt while they talk about the latest uber tacticool techniques that make them feel tough. In reality I suspect most of their pants would fall down if they tried to move in a situation, and I'm guessing that they wouldn't hit anything even though they carry 90000 reloads so they can fire and miss for 30 minutes until lthe police arrive.

I used to carry a full sized Glock, and shoot black rifles. Then I realized that I was compensating for my own lack of training, and trying to be badass and tactical. Then I turned 22 and grew up a notch. I sold all of my black pistols and rifles. Now my pistols are blued or stainless steel, and my shotguns have pumps. None require magazines.

I carry 4" barreled 6 shooters IWB. I can fire them fast, under stress, wearing winter coats or a swimsuit, sweating or freezing, at long range or short range, and I can hit just about every single time in every single situation. I can fire a K-frame in single or double action, sitting or standing, with a right or left or both hands, upside down and sideways, around corners and above and below cover. It reloads slowly so I know to make my rounds count. I keep a Remington 870 with a wooden stock in the bedroom. I've fired thousands of rounds of slugs and buckshot through it, it feels like an extra limb when I shoulder it. I know that I can hit with it out past 100 yards with a low recoil slug if I have time to aim. I know that at close range I can fire all 8 rounds faster than I can count to 8, and hit 8 seperate targets. I know that I can fire it left handed, upside down, and sideways. I know that it takes me too long to reload with it, so make my shots count. The similarties are training and making rounds count due to fewer of them and slow reloading.

I carry "outdated" guns, but I've done my part; If God is with me if the poo ever hits the fan, I might be fine. If I die I'll do so knowing I did my best.

Some peope try to compensate with stuff.

 

[Dave Williams]

Wow great paragraph 357wheelgunner

"I carry 4" barreled 6 shooters IWB. I can fire them fast, under stress, wearing winter coats or a swimsuit, sweating or freezing, at long range or short range, and I can hit just about every single time in every single situation. I can fire a K-frame in single or double action, sitting or standing, with a right or left or both hands, upside down and sideways, around corners and above and below cover. It reloads slowly so I know to make my rounds count. I keep a Remington 870 with a wooden stock in the bedroom. I've fired thousands of rounds of slugs and buckshot through it, it feels like an extra limb when I shoulder it. I know that I can hit with it out past 100 yards with a low recoil slug if I have time to aim. I know that at close range I can fire all 8 rounds faster than I can count to 8, and hit 8 seperate targets. I know that I can fire it left handed, upside down, and sideways. I know that it takes me too long to reload with it, so make my shots count. The similarties are training and making rounds count due to fewer of them and slow reloading."

 

[357wheelgunner]

Thanks!

 

[Old Guy]

Shotgun in bedroom?

Why would you have a shotgun, of any kind in your bedroom? But if you had one, an 870 works fine.

Shooting a s/g on a range, with ear muffs, and shooting glasses is not the same as firing one in an enclosed space, not for you, the shooter, and absolutely not for a group of home invaders at the bottom of the stairs!

The group in the front of that muzzle blast, and flame... would in all probability flee big time! And if you hit one of the group from less the 7m, away, the wet slap of 9 x double OO buckshot pellets impacting on the individual standing next to you (you as a home invader) leaving at hi speed is a natural self survival instinct.

A shotgun is the least survivable weapon, common street weapon, out there, you normally die if shot in the body, at close range pieces are blown off the human body!

In the second world war troops using/carrying street sweepers were shot out of hand. Me? 9mm Glock19, 16 rounds of 127g +P+, on me awake, next to me asleep.

 

[sm]

Duty to retreat in some jurisdictions, so a shotgun in the bedroom makes sense.


I go way back assisting ladies, single moms, elderly and physically limited.

Take a under age 21 female, being stalked , maybe has been beaten by a boyfriend, and the restraining order is not going to stop a threat.

I can get a gal up to speed in short order with a single shot shotgun.
We do all the preventative stuff, even get another lady to stay with them, even one 21 years and older with a CCW.

Still, they can have a gun, retreat, do all the things as shared, with practiced plans and legal and if the threat continues to busting down the bedroom door...

The other gun is the medium frame revolver, such as the police trade ins, Model 10s for example.

This gun I/we can get a person up to speed fast with too, and this allows the under age 21 person to have a gun in the home, on person such as answering the door, or handy when in the kitchen, ironing clothes, in the bathroom or in bed.

I grew up doing this with Mentors, just what we did, and I still do.



Re: Multiple persons.

Based on true events, I have first hand experience with -

Take a 19 year old gal, that leaves home, even 2 hours from home and family to attend college in a bigger city.
Some guy starts pestering her, and it escalates.
She does not want a boy friend in the bigger city, she sorta has one back home.
He stalks, leaves hang up messages at her part time job, even her apt.

She gets a restraining order.

Now the jerk gets his GF , sister, and/or another girl to try to talk this 19 year old into dropping it.

It is not uncommon for both guys and girls to take sides of the one the restraining order was filed against.
It can even be the fella's real girl friend that is the one to really be careful of.
He tells GF the 19 year gal is the one "wrong" and the GF will go after the 19 year old.

You can have six folks easy all ticked off and mad and after this 19 year old.
19 year old's car gets tires slashed, investigated and the fella was in class at the time of the incident.
His GF, or one of his guy,or gal buds slashed the tires.
He is covered, by being in class and did not break the RO.

Folks get weired out when a RO is filed, and they get even more weirded out as time goes on sometimes.

They are not always dumb either.
Take a Thunderstorm, and power is flickering and all they have to do is hit the switch out back of the apt and shut off lights, and phone.
It seems "normal" and now we have a 19 y/o girl, in the dark with a half dozen folks that want revenge or whatever for filing a RO on that guy.

At the time, she had a duty to retreat according to law.
Now she would not.
Still we did the legal and everything else and her place had been beefed up, and she had practiced plans.
She had lessons on using the guns.
She retreated as we said for her to do.

No phones, no cell phones back then.
Compressed air horn, as one can buy in the marine dept, is what she had multiples of, scattered in her apt - in the event her phones went out ( switch on back of apt complex with apt number) or due to power outtage storms caused.

Two trusted neighbors, were instructed and advised on all this.
19 year old hit that Air horn when her patio window was busted out and she was behind cover, with both guns, and could not retreat any more.

Neighbor heard the horn, and one called police direct, the other stayed inside, but observed and reported to fire dept ( station just up the street).
FD arrived first...Police a minute later.

Youths had run at the sound of that air horn.
Observe and report on make , model of vehicles, finger prints on glass and the case went from there.

So in essence a single shot shotgun and Model 10 , took on 7 persons that late afternoon, getting near dark.
It was dark when the patio window was busted.

It was the fella's real GF that became totally nutzoid, angry and vindictive.