Close-Quarter Battle: Handguns Still Rule

[4thHorseman]

Drizzt

Drizzt, I thought your post was great. Very informative.

 

[Island Beretta]

I think we need to describe what is 'close quarters '. I see people recommending hand grenades.

For me close quarters represents from 0 to 7yds (maybe even going up to 10 yds.). Clearly the closer you are to the 0' the better a handgun will be. At 0' the revolver is preferred over the semi-auto handgun. As you progress up to the 10 yds. range then you are better off with short-barreled long guns, esp. a shotgun.

So you see that over the distance from 0 to 10 yds. the best gun changes. However we are not able to walk around with an arsenal on a day to day basis so we have to optimise. So we substitute 'carry the equipment for the situation' to 'train for the situation'. Here enters the handgun as the best all round tool, somewhat of a 'jack of all trades, master of none'.

The down side is that we have to train a hell of a lot harder to be more effective with the handgun. The military M9 has an effective range of 50 yds. but few of us are accurate at that range with a handgun. For CQB you face the risk of a harder head shot the closer the enemy (believe it or not) and overpenetration. So you are still at a high risk of getting shot, chopped, cut, bludgeoned etc. Here enters the debate of best pistol caliber. ]

The bottom line is that it is all about compromises when carrying a handgun as there is always a weapon that is better for a given situation. MINIMISE YOUR DISADVANTAGE BY TRAINING AND BECOMING PROFICIENT WITH YOUR HANDGUN.

 

[HS/LD]

Has anyone here ever engaged in COB?

The only reason one would choose a handgun over a shotgun, subgun or carbine is if the operator of said weapon was totally ingnorant or lacked any profieciency with anything but a pistol. If you don't know how to make the weapon ready use the pistol.

Apart from the extreme of crawling on your belly in a tunnel, there is absolutley no way I would trade a subgun or carbine for a pistol.

A handgun has a greater effective range than any shotgun.
A shoulder fired weapon is clumsy for tunnels, caves, and interiors of many buildings.

A handgun has a greater effective range than any shotgun. Really?
I was busting pumpkins yesterday at 100 meters with a bead sighted 18" barrel shotgun, and thats with the cheapest rifled 1oz. slugs I could find 4" groups at 100 meters ... throw sabots in the mix and take it out even further...

With correct instruction / technique a shoulder fired weapon is an advatage in nearly any COB scenario.

For CCW obviously in a civilian capacity the rugged auto pistol is THE weapon of choice. If on the other hand you have a choice, grab your long gun.

HS/LD

 

[Harold Mayo]

The article was not talking about carry or crawling in tunnels but CQB. If you are clearing a house, you want a subgun, a shotgun, or a carbine, not a handgun. Handguns suck for CQB.

A shotgun is devastating in close quarters. It is great out to 100 yards or so with slugs but I would rather than a carbine or even a subgun beyond 20 or 30 yards.

A subgun is great. Even on semiauto, a subgun is quick and accurate and beats a handgun. A guy who is well-trained with an MP-5 can do wonders with rapid shot placement even on full-auto. For those who have not fired one, you don't really "spray and pray" with a submachinegun if you know how to use it.

A carbine is good and would be my personal choice because it has more versatility (to my mind). I don't like the thought of shooting a .223 in a confined space without hearing protection, though.

 

[sixgun_symphony]

Who is going to load slugs into a shotgun for CQB?

If a longshot presents itself during a CQB engagement, one will most likely have buckshot loads in their shotgun. I doubt that one will have time to to unload the buckshot rounds and then load slugs.

Buckshot is only good to 30yds or so.

 

[HS/LD]

Again, with correct instruction and correct training engaging targets with a shotgun at mid ranges (out to 100 yards) is not that difficult. Select slug drills can be accomplished very quickly, quicker in most cases than transitioning to a secondary weapon.

Who is going to load slugs into a shotgun for CQB?

I would load a CQB shotgun with slugs!
In fact my CQB shotgun is loaded in part with slugs AND buckshot and has a sidesaddle for extra slugs. A select slug drill enables me to quickly transition to a shot out past 100 yards with a greater degree of confidence and accuracy than a pistol. Remember a new hi-vel slug weighing in at 7/8 .oz will only drop some 3 inches from 50 to 100 yards. As for buckshot research info regarding "Choke Precision Bonded buckshot" with shot cups that enable buckshot to mimic the external ballistics of a slug and the terminal ballistics of buckshot out to 100 yards.

I didn't want to put it as strongly as this, but supposing proficiency in either weapon, a pistol over a shotgun is, relatively, a very poor choice when it comes to CQB.

If the pistol was the BEST for CQB and the only thing that one could maneuver in a house why then do the HR teams choose subguns, carbines, and shotguns, backed up by pistols?

I know from even my limited training and experience with an Armed Offenders unit there was not a man on the squad who would take a pistol over a shoulder fired weapon.

Regards,
HS/LD

 

[BHP9]

I still love hand grenades.

 

[CWL]

If a longshot presents itself during a CQB engagement, one will most likely have buckshot loads in their shotgun. I doubt that one will have time to to unload the buckshot rounds and then load slugs

There are enough misconceptions about guns already without creating new ones. Various drills exist in how to swap slugs/buck while moving & in combat. This is for both pump and semiautos. Spend some money for training and learn how.

Once you understand the patterning of your shotgun and choose the appropriate brand of ammo, you can make headshots on BGs with buck @ 20 yards without disturbing a 'friendly' silhouette placed next to it. Needless to say, slugs will extend this reach. I just spent the past weekend putting 00 & 000 buck & slugs into the head-sized targets without disturbing the 'hostage' target.

Nothing is more devastating than a shotgun blast at close quarters.

It's all in understanding your weapon and how you train.

btw, guess what is being used as a primary CQB weapon in Afghanistan for cave & complex clearing? Shotgun.