Thoughts on "Classic Handguns."

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On the discussion of the 1911 being a classic firearm, my question is: is every 1911 produced a classic gun? Is it only the original mil-spec Colts or does it include the various tricked out 1911s produced today? Is the 1911 design, itself, the classic part or is any 1911 produced a classic firearm? Where is the line between a classic 1911 and just another 1911 produced by nearly every pistol manufacturer today?
 
OP on the other thread here

I guess for me, what I was trying to get at by saying classic is something with high production numbers--seemingly everywhere or you can see it being in everyone's safe. Something that's been made for at least a couple decades and because of those factors is probably still in production----materials and finishes are secondary. Blued and wood is the most common, but if they make a stainless variant, that's fine too. Somewhat of a game changer might be part of that consideration but not always.

Maybe a few examples by manufacturer to get what I was trying to say would be more instructive.

Colt:
SAA
1911
AR15

S&W:
.357 mag revolver with a 4 to 6in barrel
Snub nosed .38 revolver

Ruger:
10/22 rifle
Single action revolver
Mk* .22 pistol
Mini-14 maybe???

Browning:
Hi Power
SA .22 rifle
O/U shotguns

Winchester:
Model 70
Model 94

Beretta:
Model 92
O/U shotguns

Reminton:
870 shotgun
700 rifle

Glock: Yes Glock
G17
G19

Mossberg:
500 shotgun

Then there's something like the Benelli shotguns--which I don't consider being a classic---they have made and sold a bunch and are highly regarded. But don't seem to have been made long enough---maybe in another decade or so they will get that classic status---at least for me.

Something about the 1911 and AR15---look at how many manufacturers offer these 2 models---Colt--Ruger---S&W--Remington---Sig come to mind right away and I'm sure there are a few others.

Has Taurus ever made anything considered a classic? NO----so the manufacturer becomes part of the equation in a way too.

Does all that make more sense?
 
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On the discussion of the 1911 being a classic firearm, my question is: is every 1911 produced a classic gun? Is it only the original mil-spec Colts or does it include the various tricked out 1911s produced today? Is the 1911 design, itself, the classic part or is any 1911 produced a classic firearm? Where is the line between a classic 1911 and just another 1911 produced by nearly every pistol manufacturer today?

It's the design of the gun that becomes classic. Individual guns can represent that design better or worse than others. Some individual guns can be called classic, which actually means that they are excellent representatives of a classic design and type.

Is every 1911 produced a classic gun? No, some crappy 1911's have been produced. They are based on a classic design. Is the AMT Hardballer a classic 1911? No, the guns were wracked by problems from the git and by the time they were ironed out the outfit folded. Some folks collect them but not a good representative of a classic design.

Harley Davidson is a classic American made motorcycle, but not all Harley's are classic.

These things aren't a matter of individual taste. When hundreds of thousands of people, in some case millions, agree on something it leaves the realm of individual taste and becomes a standard. An objective fact. The elements that make something a classic is also objective.

Like I said earlier, you can debate around the edges, you can tie yourself in small knots, gun fanciers will do that anyway...Is Ed Brown's guns classic 1911's or classic examples of a gunsmith's work? debate away. But there is no question that the original GI 1911's were and are classic handguns and a classic and influential design.

tipoc
 
Is Ed Brown's guns classic 1911's or classic examples of a gunsmith's work? debate away. But there is no question that the original GI 1911's were and are classic handguns and a classic and influential design.

This is where I stand. (IMO) The classic design produced by Colt is the classic 1911. Some fine 1911s, like the mentioned Ed Brown or Wilson, are fine examples of the original, classic design but are not, in and among themselves, a classic 1911.
 
A widely-held opinion is still an opinion. That does not make it a fact. This chair weighs three pounds is a fact. It can be measured and verified. This chair is pretty or ugly or classic is an opinion. If lots of people share that opinion, great, but it is still an opinion.
 
On the discussion of the 1911 being a classic firearm, my question is: is every 1911 produced a classic gun?

....and isn't the 1911 just a variant of an earlier design? This in itself would delete it from the OPs list of classic firearms since he states...


And the gun should be sire to later improved models.

Me, I believe Colt 1911s are classic. Even the newest models are classic examples of JMB's classic design.

My question is, do you need to use the Classic Weaver stance when firing a classic firearm or are variations of it also acceptable?
 
This is where I stand. (IMO) The classic design produced by Colt is the classic 1911. Some fine 1911s, like the mentioned Ed Brown or Wilson, are fine examples of the original, classic design but are not, in and among themselves, a classic 1911.

I agree!

tipoc
 
On the discussion of the 1911 being a classic firearm, my question is: is every 1911 produced a classic gun? Is it only the original mil-spec Colts or does it include the various tricked out 1911s produced today? Is the 1911 design, itself, the classic part or is any 1911 produced a classic firearm? Where is the line between a classic 1911 and just another 1911 produced by nearly every pistol manufacturer today?
I follow Gunrunner actions and from what I've seen the vintage 1911 with the correct military proof marks seem to go the highest.

Has Taurus ever made anything considered a classic? NO----so the manufacturer becomes part of the equation in a way too.

If you believe that then how can you have Mossberg on the list?
 
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Classic? I think so..

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Taurus makes copies of the 1911 and Beretta 92--but nobody really seems to get excited about them or prize them highly

The Mossberg 500 stands on its own---plus I think some of my appreciation of Mossy comes from hunting as a kid and just about every gun you saw was either a 500 or 870.

My dad owns a Browning Superposed bought new in 1965 or 66?---I never saw it come out of the gun cabinet until I was in my 30's------when I was a kid it was like the gun never existed and was only for looking at.

When I see a Superposed today, my reaction is just meh, because they don't bring back the fond memories like those old pump guns do.
 
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If it is an "iconic" design - something that creates a type or genre of firearm, it can be a classic. However, it takes time to make that happen. And as time goes by, the discerning purchaser of firearms is presented with newer models than what another generation thinks is the limit.

To the point, we've mentioned everything around it, but why not the S&W auto pistols starting with those in the 1950s to now?

First, it was designed on a classic, the P38, in response to a Army solicitation for a 9mm pistol to replace the 1911 - in 1954. (That vs. thing started a long time ago.) It was marketed, not shelved, and was about the only American DA/SA available for a long time.

When it showed promise, the double stack version was introduced and sales took off. We then went thru a significant upgrade with the 2d generation, into the 3rd, and they were seen on the belts of cops from coast to coast. They made it into the movies and are still depicted in TV series as the weapon of choice for characters.

Smith still makes them for large purchasers to order, and overruns are slipped into the market NIB to this day. They are a common item in pistol competition, too, with models using 9mm, .40, 10mm, and .45ACP. Smith made an improved model labeled the TSW which has a better trigger, enhanced rails, and came with Novak night sights, and as that line progressed, added the Dawson Weaver rail as standard. Same supplier as the one made for 1911's that don't come milled for one.

Classic? Over 62 years of production and still in service, with LEO trade ins on the market right now. Originally blued steel with wood grips, then the most favorite models came all stainless with the factory polymer or Pachmayrs. Its gone from old school production to the modern level factory, from roll marked to laser etched, and has models with 5", 4 1/4", 4", 3 1/2" and shorter barrels, with full capacity to pocket carry capacity. Forged to MIM parts, plain jane to presentation grade, service carry to Chief's Specials.

We very well could have been carrying them into Vietnam if the typical cost cutting and low prioritization of the 1911 hadn't happened. As it is - they were, with the Navy silenced "hush puppy" variant.

Does the shooting public consider it a classic? Using most of the definitions provided, it would seem a slam dunk. But I will suggest it's not - because the public, however informed it may be on them, won't offer that opinion.

Observe the pricing on them in auctions, the few articles written about them, the rare post in forums. There aren't crowds of people bidding them up yet either. The public holds them in less repute than the HK P7 - another classic.

The S&W's are still too new and underappreciated. Some sell for as much as the P7, but the overall market is depressed.

The public says what is or isn't a classic, and they vote with their dollars. The keen eyed collector, however, observes the masses and then does the opposite.
 
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