CNN Piece on Arming Teachers

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And the majority of teachers I have known have either no interest in firearms or are antis.
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I'd say that this needs to change.

OK, I see legitimate reasoning as to why this shouldn't happen. I'd agree let it be the teacher's choice but those that do should train accordingly. That way some semblance of secrecy is maintained as to who is and who isn't and in relationships with the students the armed teacher would have no more authority than the unarmed. And those that don't should also receive some kind of training as to how to react in such a situation. Let them mull it over. Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. Someone in these places needs to be willing and ABLE to fight back. Putting a uniformed, openly armed security force on our school campuses doesn't appeal to me at all. For one thing they'd become first targets just as much as anybody else. Besides, it's tacky... :D
 
And no, maybe an armed teacher won't win 100% of the time, but if schools were to stop being such soft targets maybe they wouldn't get hit so much.
 
An armed teacher might win against an armed criminal 50% of the time. But a disarmed teacher will lose against an armed gunman 100% of the time.

I like the odds better the other way.
 
schools

at least where i work, are NOT soft targets.

let me describe one of my rooms (because of overcrowding i move from room to room)

  • 1 1/2 foot concrete, all four walls.
  • 2 double steel sheeted solid wood core doors, steel reinforced frame, peened and welded hinges
  • no windows
  • single lockable inner door, allows access to four adjoining rooms via small 15ft' otherwise inacessible hallway.
  • in-room fire alarm, pullable, rings the FD
  • in-room smoke alarm, non pullable, rings the FD
  • in-room phone (cannot call outside, but getting fixed)

any decently funded school built after the 1979 earthquake in CA will have similar features.

I do NOT support the idea of allowing any guns in the classroom. There are many idiot teachers and far too many kids with quick eyes and probing fingers. It's tough enough keeping a gun in the house with your own kids. Can you imagine 42 of someone else's, different kids per hour, for five hours?

However, districts need to address what procedures should be undertaken OTHER than simply "lock the doors and hide under the table" because there are many situations for which this solution, isn't.
 
Actually there have been some unarmed teachers who have disarmed BGs.

School shooting rampages are low probability events in the absolute. The Israelis face significant attacks by an organized enemey and a teacher population with universal military training.

Their solution is based on that. The best for us is just legalizing CCW. It's very simple.
 
I had this conversation with my wife a while back after a school shooting. I suggested that for all the background checks and hoops that teachers have to jump through to get a job (wife is a teacher BTW) and the fact that, weather or not you believe it, they really are there because they care about the kids, why not allow them to carry a concealed firearm if they have met their jurisdictions requirements? If you can make it through the CCW permit application and the teacher application, then you are not the kind of person who is going to snap and start shooting kids.

I really don't think that the kids getting the gun would be a problem either, because like we always say, concealed means concealed. The kids shouldn't know who is armed and who is not.

I suggested that we propose it like this:

ME: "Citizen, how would you like it if we could put an armed guard in every classroom?"

CITIZEN: "That sounds great, but where would we get the money for it? And wouldn't that scare the kids or distract them and make it difficult for them to learn?

ME: "Yeah, you're right. How about this, since teachers already...blah blah blah.


The only sticking point is the one that my wife pointed out to me, and that has been stated here: Most teachers are libs and fear guns like they fear killer bees. They think that guns are animate objects that randomly kill on thier own, and would urinate all over themselves if it was suggested that they carry a g-g-g-gun!

Or they try to pull the holier-than-thou BS like they do around here and claim that it is not right to defend oneself or others from murderers.
 
There are many idiot teachers and far too many kids with quick eyes and probing fingers.
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Sounds an aweful lot like the whole "if we allow people CCW, there will be blood in the streets" kind of logic.

We trust these people to educate our kids, but we won't trust them with self defense tools? Even for the defense of our own children?

***?
 
Most teachers are libs and fear guns like they fear killer bees.
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I've personally "cured" at least two on-the-fence gun haters of their stupidity by simply inviting them to the range and schooling them on basic safety and marksmenship principles.

If all else fails, appeal to their greed. Give them an insurance discount for doubling as "worst case" security and pay for them to attend an annual firearm safety class. Even liberals are greedy.
 
I spent 31 years in the classroom and was part of team that responded to threats in the building. There are things that can be done on the way to the problem area. Doors can be closed, gates pulled shut and a few other things. The individuals not on the response team locked their doors, moved students away from windows, etc. We paracticed the procedure on weekends and then with students. 911 is a good system and it is not that teachers/students are above calling it. Sometimes the 911 response arrives after the fact, especially in rural areas.

We were not armed. There was one time when I wish I had been. Twenty or so "gang members" from another town invaded our commons at lunch time. The threat alarm was sounded and the system worked. When the 911 response arrived those "gansters" left in the building were ready to be arrested. Luckly, they did not bring firearms with them. I am sure the result would have been different if they had. On another occasion there was a specific threat to a student in my classroom. I was notified and locked the door and moved all students to the back of the room and away from the entry. Other team members arrived outside my door for support. Again, it worked. Again, we were lucky.

Believe me I wish I had an answer. The use of deadly force by students is the symptom. Until we cure the social ills that cause the action we will see more violence.
 
The problem with just arming teachers is that giving a sheep fangs does not make it a sheepdog. The ones who wish to, and should, be armed are pretty few and far between. I've known a bunch of teachers. I can think of one or two that could be expected to do more good than harm, in the Big Picture, when it comes to carrying guns around all day. Most would want nothing to do with it, which is probably a Good Thing for everyone around them.

Believe me, I agree that just herding kids and teachers into a big building, putting up a "No Guns, mmmmkay" sign and calling it a day is a pretty bad idea. I just don't think that a blanket 'arm the teachers' policy is going to help that much, either. What probably would work is a layered policy of target hardening, better identification of potential shooters within the student body, professional armed response on site, and a self-selected few teachers being armed.

The armed response on site thing is key, though. I have always maintained that if you're going to disarm people in a given area, you MUST be able to protect them. Otherwise you've created a fold that is merely waiting for a wolf.

Mike
 
There are many idiot teachers
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Yup.

On the other hand, if I don't trust them with a pistol, I surely won't trust 'em with my kid.

And you know what, with a few notable exceptions, I wouldn't.
 
It's inevitable.

As soon as the committed jihadist figgers out how easy it is to shoot up a school the popuplar outcry will demand some sort of Isreal like arming of teachers, security, staff, volunteers or what?

There are too many schools to creat a new administration "Department of School Land Security".

A "Education Safety Administration" won't work for at least 2 reasons........

1) TSA hired all available screeners.

2) Even if they could find enough big fat women wearing white button busting shirts to look into shoes at the school house door the jihadist would just outrun them down the hall. If they aren't totin' a shootin' iron or backed up by armed security, they would just be wasted space.

So, the way I see it.........Arm some staff in each school or.........

Consolidate the schools so that the students can be in groups large enough to protect efficiently. Sorta like concentration camps. :eek:

Anybody think that's gonna happen?
 
Its more like the logic that says prison guards don't carry guns in the prison around inmates.
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No. Actually, it isn't. Also, are you trying to tell me there are no armed guards in our nations jails? Don't do that please. That is just too silly to bother refuting. There may be "no carry" areas inside certain cell blocks, but to state that jailers are completely disarmed is just too "out there".

Let any teacher, adminstrator, janitor, bus driver, and sports coach carry what they want, when they want, however they want to. It's the Right thing to do.
 
Guards are not usually armed when they are in areas with prisoners who are walking around loose though. Thats what I am referring to, and I thought that would be obvious. Sorry for the confusion.

I would be ok with trained teachers having access to a locked carbine kept in an administrative area outside the touch of students.

I would also be ok with teachers carrying in areas where there are no students, but would treat student areas like lock down areas in prisons. I think it would be dangerous to let them carry in areas where students are around loose, when the ratio of students to teachers might be 30 to 1. I think they could be easily distracted and disarmed while they are trying to teach or supervise that many people. I think more people would be hurt annually by that kind of error than by school shootings done by crazy people.

But you don't have to worry about my opinion. Allowing teachers to carry is never going to happen. Clearly a majority of people do not want to allow that.
 
I would be ok with trained teachers having access to a locked carbine kept in an administrative area outside the touch of students.
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Which makes zero tactical sense. "Wait Mr. Psychopath! I need to get the key for the gun cabinet..."

Further, start teaching kids basic gun safety in the 4th Grade and keep it up until graduation from High School. Instilling the basics and a healthy respect for firearms is a "Good Thing".
 
Sure it makes sense. The teachers would be able to respond to the shooting much quicker than it would take the police to arrive.

Even if every teacher carries, there is going to be someone killed before they know to respond. In other words, armed teachers would not open fire until after the criminal had already started shooting. Armed teachers will not prevent school shootings, only shorten their duration and lower the body count.

No one seems to be advocating forcing all teachers to carry, so if someone started shooting in an unarmed teacher's classroom, we would have to wait until an armed teacher arrived, and I don't think that would be much different than if they had to grab a rifle from administration on the way to the scene.

But don't worry about all this or get upset with me. My personal opinon doesn't matter, nor does it invalidate your opinion. The majority of people are not in favor of arming teachers at all, and that is what matters. Your viewpoint is a minority opinion. Its never going to happen.
 
Utah already allows CCW in schools. I know of plenty of teachers who carry.

The best thing? Nobody knows who they are, or that they are armed. They don't function as cops or security. They are just like the rest of us with CCWs.

And nope, sorry, no blood baths in the schools here.
 
Again I see 'arming teachers' as different from 'allowing CCW carry'.

While as Mike says there are few one might want to arm, the self-selection of CCW is a better operative principle. I know from the criminological research that the percent of teachers with CCW permits in states like TX is close to the percent in the general population.
 
Your viewpoint is a minority opinion. Its never going to happen.
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Wow... with that attitude the Colonies never would have broken off form the Crown and Rosa Parks would have just been content to hang out in the back of the bus.

Even if only 5% of the teachers in any given district were armed that would still be a hell of a lot more than there are now. Same for any other population segment in the US currently living under the illogical victim disarmament laws currently on the books.
 
I'm for it

I think the idea of allowing CCW is great. I also think rewarding it minimally (5% raise?) is a good supporting idea. Here's why ..

I agree that the majority of teachers are on the anti side of the fence, and most could do more harm than good. Recognizing a CCP on school property would allow appropriate individuals to self select themselves.

Not every class room would have an armed teacher, in fact most wouldn't. But not knowing should give any perp pause. This is the same concept with crime prevention outside of schools: Perps not knowing who is armed will dimish (not abolish) criminal behaviour.

When a school is targeted (perps are hardened and/or stupid and/or in an irrational state), there is a chance that the perp will hit the wrong classroom (armed teacher). And if not, there's a chance that an armed teacher can come and help.

Best of all, it's better than doing nothing at all!

Eventually, the public has to get the idea that legal, privately owned guns are a major part of any solution. CNN's coverage is a small but heartening step.
 
I think LOTS of you are missing what Correia says above.

There ARE ALREADY places where teachers can legally carry in schools all the "disasters" you people refer to have not happened.

When did the anti's invade THR?

You equate the actions and thoughts of school children to prisoners in a prison?

I bet your house is one that gets egged every Halloween if that's how you think, and I'd say you deserve it.

How dare you compare the safety of having weapons on a prison guard to having a weapon on a school teacher. That's the most ridiculous comparison I've seen on here in I can't remember when.

By that logic then none of us should be able to CCW because we don't know the thoughts and plans of someone standing next to us.

The idea, in case you all forget somehow, is CONCEALED MEANS CONCEALED.

I'm absolutely shocked and dismayed by the anti- arguments being given here. If this is how High Roaders feel than we truly have already lost.
 
I'm absolutely shocked and dismayedby the anti- arguments being given here.
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You know... I was going to post something like that, but decided I just don't have the post count here to come across that strongly. BTW.... couldn't have said it better myself. ;-)

"Anyone who needs to be persuaded to be free, doesn't deserve to be. " -El Neil
 
School teachers and officials have a responsibility to protect the children entrusted to them -- even at the cost of their own lives, if necessary, just as the childrens' own parents would. A teacher or school official who is not ready or willing to accept that responsibility should seek some other line of work.
 
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