CNN Piece on Arming Teachers

Status
Not open for further replies.
From the "10 Myths" thread that few seem to have read, there are some 100,000 schools in the US. If a guard is at each school, at "only" (?) $30,000 a year, that's $3 billion taxbucks--to guard against 12 to 20 events, total. School guards aren't gonna be any sort of common thing.

My own opinion is that those teachers who want to do the CHL thing should be allowed to carry in school if they want that additional burden over and above "on the street" CHL. If some or none wish to, that's their right.

How anybody ever deals with danger is a personal thing involving common sense. Doesn't matter if you're some highly-trained hero or Joe Doakes the ragman. At least a CHL teacher doesn't have to wish in one hand and poop in the other to see which fills up first. "I wish I had a gun, but..."

Art
 
"How dare you compare the safety of having weapons on a prison guard to having a weapon on a school teacher. That's the most ridiculous comparison I've seen on here in I can't remember when."

I disagree. You been in a middle or high school lately? Or ever? The kids don't (necessarily) behave like criminals in a jail or prison, but it is a somewhat adversarial relationship. Combine that with the fact that there's a lot of them and only one of you, and it is a fairly reasonable comparison.

What about duly sworn retired LEOs doing it part time? There are some that would like that. Most don't retire exactly wealthy. What about paying the usually non-paid reserve officers some kind of wage to do it? In Texas, they're trained peace officers just like any others. Some have other full-time jobs, and others are just waiting for a full-time position with a department. Why not give them a few hours a day each patrolling the school? If they were part-time, you could pay them less, and not have to pay benefits. Many would actually like to do that, rather than work at Jiffy Lube, daydreaming about the day they can go full-time LEO. Whoever is in our schools has to be screened and supervised, no matter their age, sex, race, or religion.
 
disagree. You been in a middle or high school lately? Or ever? The kids don't (necessarily) behave like criminals in a jail or prison, but it is a somewhat adversarial relationship. Combine that with the fact that there's a lot of them and only one of you, and it is a fairly reasonable comparison.
Click to expand...

Disagree all you want, and I'll refer you back to the statement

Concealed means Concealed
Click to expand...

Have you been in a 7-11 at night lately? Have you been in any number of places where we as CCW carriers can go? So because the other people there might be less than nice we shouldn't carry? I thought that was the whole point.

And, if you DO have a student that is foolish enough to attempt to take a teachers legally carried weapon, that student more than deserves to get SHOT for it. If I'm in said 7-11 and some stranger attempts to take MY weapon I'm quite sure I'd shoot him for that.

I think you grossly overstate the "somewhat adverserial relationship" between students and teachers. If it's that bad,why don't we just close down all the schools and lock the little scumbags up?
 
Oh, you mean some of those professionals that have been trained enough to have a firearm in a school?

Snork. :p Sorry, I know yer a new guy who probably hasn't read the strings.

What's to keep all these unruly prisoner like little delinquents from overpowering the old snoring geezer leaned up against the wall in his chair in the hall?

Plain Clothes? Concealed Weapon?

What's he doing there?

Sorry, it's inevitable. Teachers and staff doing ccw in the schools. The time has come. The gig is up. The liberal weenies had their chance and they blew it.
 
If they ain't smart enough or responsible enough to be trusted with a firearm, why would we ever trust them with our children?
Click to expand...

Because there is a national shortage of teachers, and most schools will take whatever warm bodies they can get. If you believe anyone who is a teacher is responsible enough to carry a gun around children, you havent spent enough time around teachers lately.
 
If you believe anyone who is a teacher is responsible enough to carry a gun around children, you havent spent enough time around teachers lately.
Click to expand...

My wife is on her way over to kick you square in the cojones.

She's a teacher, a concealed carrier, a very good shot, and a heck of a dove hunter.

The teacher 2 rooms over from her is a retired Full Bird Colonel with 2 tours "over there" (I think it was Korea but I am not sure). I don't suppose he would be safe around kids and a weapon either.

How much time have YOU spent in a school lately?

Again, this sounds like exactly the line of reasoning we get from the anti's all the time. Reactionary, not well thought out, fear mongering and insulting.
 
If there's so much disagreement on a pro-gun forum about arming teachers, then it's pretty obvious that such a bill would never get the support of the general public.
 
A lot of schools,and also busnesses, have big yellow poles in and around the buildings to prevent careless drivers from having accidents and driving through and running over people, i'm sure yall have seen them. So what would be the diff. in providing teachers and school faculty firearms to prevent wackjobs from coming on the property and killing people? Is this a good point or just stupid comparison?
 
Is this a good point or just stupid comparison?
Click to expand...

Strictly speaking, it is neither.

It is a bad analogy.

And for the record, I support the state providing NOTHING* except removing the words "and schools" from any concealed carry legislation.

*well, ok...I wouldn't be opposed to them opening up police academy firearms instruction to teachers who might request training on their own dime, but that would be up to the academies.
 
My wife is on her way over to kick you square in the cojones.
Click to expand...

I am glad your wife is competent with a firearm, but does the fact that she and the colonel next door are competent mean you think that all teachers are competent? I mean no disrespect to her, but I think its silly to think a majority of teachers, or any other group, are competent with firearms.

I have three kids in public school, just about everyone in the family but me is a teacher, and my wife is head of the PTA at one of the elementary schools here. I am pretty familiar with schools and teachers I think.
 
but I think its silly to think a majority of teachers, or any other group, are competent with firearms
Click to expand...

I believe that you are missing the point with statements like this. Very few in this thread have advocated arming ALL teachers.

The most popular of the ideas mentioned is allowing teachers to "self-select" themselves by virtue of them either already having or obtaining a CCL.

It is an absolutely true statement that not all teachers should CCW (some would quit before carrying an EVIL GUN). It is also absolutely true that some would be excellent to have carrying in the classroom.

I have taught & I have seen both types... the sheep and the sheepdogs are both there.

In regards to the safety of a gun in the classroom, I taught in middle & highschool art classes... the type of class where kids by necessity are up and about and even there an APPROPRIATELY carried weapon would not be in danger of falling into the wrong hands.

If a teacher can't maintain classroom discipline and must resort to physically grappling with kids (sounds bizzare to many, but I have seen it, although in this litigious age most teachers like that are gone) then they are probably NOT the sort of teacher that should be carrying.

Some classes (perhaps special needs kids) are probably not a good place for the teacher to CCW and some, such as Phys Ed.... well where are they gonna' hide that peice?:)
 
I am glad your wife is competent with a firearm, but does the fact that she and the colonel next door are competent mean you think that all teachers are competent?
Click to expand...

5StringDean gets it, why don't you? You don't have to have ALL teachers armed, just enough to make morons think twice about entering a school.

Once you have schools no longer a guaranteed "no defense zone" this stuff goes away, but apparantly all you "pro gun" people don't get that, which shocks me to no end.

The very argument FOR concealed carry in the first place you now turn around and use AGAINST these very same people carrying inside a school.

I am so confused by this I can't even begin to understand it.

Why is it that we'll argue FOR CCW all day, stating that a 10% randomly armed population is a deterrent, but a 10% armed population of teachers is an accident waiting to happen.

Again, it's fear mongering, misleading, and insulting and you are all anti 2A for suggesting that somehow it's bad for a teacher that has a concealed permit to be allowed to excercise that right inside a school the same as he/she can exercise that right anywhere else.
 
Its the same line of crap with "arming the pilots".

Americans!!! Can we stop thinking that giving surtain powers to some people and not others is the right way to solve a problem!!!! Cant we just have CCW legal EVERYWHERE!!! Courts, public schools etc. Cant we give power to the common man and woman that wishes to carry....and who will stand their ground (to protect life) if a badguy entered???
 
just enough to make morons think twice about entering a school.
Click to expand...

Any half-wit would know that there are only two possible outcomes to popping a cap at a school:

  1. you go to prison for a very, very long time
  2. or, much more likely, you wind up "then turned the gun on himself"

of course, if they had half a wit, they wouldn't do this, now would they? what makes you think a few armed teachers will deter them? you don't think a moron can tell which teachers are sheep and which teachers will become wolves?

what coronach said - giving a sheep fangs doesn't make him a sheepdog.
 
I believe, given the proper motivation and training, most sheep could be turned into sheepdogs. The question is, what will it take to motivate them?
 
of course, if they had half a wit, they wouldn't do this, now would they? what makes you think a few armed teachers will deter them? you don't think a moron can tell which teachers are sheep and which teachers will become wolves?
Click to expand...


You don't think that the fact that a school is a 100% guaranteed disarmed victim zone has anything to do with that being the venue of choice for these wackjobs?

There's a reason they don't do these things at police stations.....
 
Instead of relying on teachers to stop threats, what about adding more security to K-12 schools? Armed security guards or LEOs. Most colleges have Campus Police who are real cops.. with guns. Many urban inner city schools have LEOs assigned to them. Maybe schools in nice areas should get the same type of protection.
 
Cant we give power to the common man and woman that wishes to carry
Click to expand...

Alaska style carry laws coupled with a Castle Doctrine/"Stand your ground" provision. It'd go a long way towards bringing our Nations veried CCW laws into greater compliance with the Constitution.

Then all we'd need to do is get rid of the Class III related morass of laws that also shouldn't exist.... :cool:
 
They should be allowed, but I would be appalled if they were expected to, urged to or even encouraged to carry.

Teachers are not police. They are not soldiers. They are not armed security or bodyguards. They already have enough responsibilities and duties that aren't part of their contracts. Gunfights must not be one of those unless we start paying them a hell of a lot better.
 
I started to craft a verbose reply here, but I am too sickened by the hypocrisy of some of the people on this site....
 
Teachers are not police. They are not soldiers. They are not armed security or bodyguards.
Click to expand...
Ah, but the life they save may be their own. They would be nothing more than any other armed citizen. Willing to defend themselves and those around them.
 
Why should a teacher's RKBA be nullified once they enter the school?

---------------

We act as if school security is some sort of ultra-complex problem requiring extravagant technological solutions (metal detectors, etc), extensive procedures (carbine in locked cabinet, only principal having a key, etc), in an extraordinarily hostile environment (comparisons to prisons...), requiring beau coup $$$ to implement (along with a gross of lawyers)..

It ain't so. Like most yards with large, toothy, and active dogs; a school system with a policy allowing staff and parents to CCW will send most goblins down the street to a softer target. Like the local ACLU branch.

But not all goblins will go elsewhere. Those that do persevere in the face of known risk will, on average, likely kill and injure fewer people due to the presence of armed resistance on site. The publication of such accounts will deter more, even as the trumpeted accounts of school shootings without armed resistance encourage like atrocities.

Deterrence, prevention, and amelioration of school shootings with little cost is a deal I'd take in a NY minute.

All we need is to remember our God given rights as men* and remember that were are vertebrates.

* For the more sensitive, this is inclusive of men and women. When writing English, remember, "The male embraces the female."
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

E
  • Locked
Michigan introduces house bill to allow CCW in schools
2
Replies
42
Views
2K
MudPuppy
M
ArfinGreebly
  • Locked
Nevada Appeal, Letters, Arming Teachers
Replies
1
Views
312
thexrayboy
T
C
  • Locked
Gun class for Utah teachers
Replies
18
Views
890
Car Knocker
C
A
  • Locked
something to think about
Replies
0
Views
344
alan
A
J
  • Locked
More Guns, Safer Schools
Replies
2
Views
282
El Tejon
E
Back
Top