Coach gun for home defense?
- Thread starter MikeJ
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Too me these types of guns are single shots. I will always have the desire to pull the front trigger first and let both barrels rip to make sure my primary target goes down and stays down.
When the second target sees the first target cut in half, terror would probably come across their face.
Then I will pull the 45 out and mop up.
When the second target sees the first target cut in half, terror would probably come across their face.
Then I will pull the 45 out and mop up.
I would never bank on a one shot stop, always hope for but never guarantee. There are too many "what-ifs" and unless you make a dead on CNS shot or blow up the dang heart the threat could continue to advance and get off a round or ten. A SxS would suffice if I had no other option but I'd never choose to handicap myself when more modern weapons are readily available.
BA, UU, R. Software trumps hardware in the real world.
BA, UU, R. Software trumps hardware in the real world.
I would never depend on the double barrel by itself but as a first strike weapon it would be pretty lethal.
I know that energy between loads vary but I will use a load I am familiar with to paint a picture of just how powerful two barrels going off at once is.
A one ounce slug from a 12 guage roughly generates 2600 ft lbs of Kinetic energy and 100 lb ft per sec of momentum.
Two barrels will generate 5200 ft lbs of Kinetic energy and 200 lb ft per sec of momentum.
Keep in mind that a .577 Tyrannosaur generates 10k ft lbs of Kinetic and roughly 280 lb ft per sec momentum.
That is some tremendous stopping power. If you make contact that person is going to go down hard. If they get back up and can shoot back after that than God must have decided it was your time. Under that kind of punishment I would seriously doubt that ceramic plate would protect you from the shock concussion. It would have to bust an armored person up pretty bad.
The only problem is if you miss. Which is why you would have your secondary armament to fall back on.
I know that energy between loads vary but I will use a load I am familiar with to paint a picture of just how powerful two barrels going off at once is.
A one ounce slug from a 12 guage roughly generates 2600 ft lbs of Kinetic energy and 100 lb ft per sec of momentum.
Two barrels will generate 5200 ft lbs of Kinetic energy and 200 lb ft per sec of momentum.
Keep in mind that a .577 Tyrannosaur generates 10k ft lbs of Kinetic and roughly 280 lb ft per sec momentum.
That is some tremendous stopping power. If you make contact that person is going to go down hard. If they get back up and can shoot back after that than God must have decided it was your time. Under that kind of punishment I would seriously doubt that ceramic plate would protect you from the shock concussion. It would have to bust an armored person up pretty bad.
The only problem is if you miss. Which is why you would have your secondary armament to fall back on.
The whole idea of people being knocked down or back after being shot is movie magic at its best. It's simple physics based on Newtons third law of motion.
To every action there is always opposed an equal reaction; or, the mutual actions of two bodies upon each other are always equal, and directed to contrary parts.
- Newton's Third Law of Motion, translated from the Principia's Latin
The shot imparts no more energy to the shootee than to the shooter. If you get a healthy shoove by firing a round of OO buck, that's roughly the amount of energy dumped into the target if all rounds make impact. If the shooter is still able to stand after unloading both barrels, the target will be standing too. Not for long mind you, but not knocked down either.
That combined with the trauma of being perforated will make a nasty wound, likely lethal but not knock a person off their feet. Unless you hit their feet that is.
To every action there is always opposed an equal reaction; or, the mutual actions of two bodies upon each other are always equal, and directed to contrary parts.
- Newton's Third Law of Motion, translated from the Principia's Latin
The shot imparts no more energy to the shootee than to the shooter. If you get a healthy shoove by firing a round of OO buck, that's roughly the amount of energy dumped into the target if all rounds make impact. If the shooter is still able to stand after unloading both barrels, the target will be standing too. Not for long mind you, but not knocked down either.
That combined with the trauma of being perforated will make a nasty wound, likely lethal but not knock a person off their feet. Unless you hit their feet that is.
texas bulldog
Member
i have two shotguns, both bought with HD in mind...one is a baikal 20" SxS and the other is a remington 870 express HD.
while i will agree to an extent with the folks who argue that the pump is more appropriate for HD, that 7 shots are a whole lot better than 2, and that the risk of short-stroking is generally overblown, i do like the coach gun for a couple reasons:
1. it's significantly lighter and shorter, and the short buttstock fits my frame better. this means i can maneuver with it much better.
2. it points so naturally for me that i don't really even have to use the sights anymore. whenever i start to point it at a target, the sights are already dead on by the time i put my cheek to the stock.
that said, a 1911 is still my first-response weapon. but the coach gun is always nearby if needed. i've been strongly considering paying the $200 tax stamp to cut it under 18", which would have the added benefit of getting rid of the full choke that i cannot for the life of me get out of the left barrel (it was in when i bought it).
while i will agree to an extent with the folks who argue that the pump is more appropriate for HD, that 7 shots are a whole lot better than 2, and that the risk of short-stroking is generally overblown, i do like the coach gun for a couple reasons:
1. it's significantly lighter and shorter, and the short buttstock fits my frame better. this means i can maneuver with it much better.
2. it points so naturally for me that i don't really even have to use the sights anymore. whenever i start to point it at a target, the sights are already dead on by the time i put my cheek to the stock.
that said, a 1911 is still my first-response weapon. but the coach gun is always nearby if needed. i've been strongly considering paying the $200 tax stamp to cut it under 18", which would have the added benefit of getting rid of the full choke that i cannot for the life of me get out of the left barrel (it was in when i bought it).
An answer and a question.
Hi, New member here!
MrBill120,
Don't know if anyone ever answered your question about different chokes on the coach gun.
The different chokes greatly increase the versitility of the little double. Slugs would be better in the open choke tube. More importantly, to be crass, you hit the BG in your living room at 5 yards with the open choke first, then his buddy on the front porch 10 yards further away with the modified barrel, delivering maximum shot density on both.
Now my strange question: Would the True Glow fiber optic turkey sights, which would adhere to the coach gun's rib, help or hinder the coach gun as a HD gun? How 'bout just the front sight? I have lousy old eyes.
Thanx,
Laser
Hi, New member here!
MrBill120,
Don't know if anyone ever answered your question about different chokes on the coach gun.
The different chokes greatly increase the versitility of the little double. Slugs would be better in the open choke tube. More importantly, to be crass, you hit the BG in your living room at 5 yards with the open choke first, then his buddy on the front porch 10 yards further away with the modified barrel, delivering maximum shot density on both.
Now my strange question: Would the True Glow fiber optic turkey sights, which would adhere to the coach gun's rib, help or hinder the coach gun as a HD gun? How 'bout just the front sight? I have lousy old eyes.
Thanx,
Laser
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MrBill120
Member
Yep, I've gotten my answer.
Thanks guys!
Thanks guys!
galilgunner
Member
Kinetic energy or Newton's Third Law and all that I know nothing about. But I can tell you what happens to a 200lb white tail deer.
While hunting deer with dogs about 15yrs ago I had a deer pop out of some extremely thick brush at no more than 10 to 15 feet away. I imediately shot him with a Belgium made Browning Light 12 with 2 3/4" #1 buck shot at basically point blank range. It turned him a complete flip and landed him head first in the dirt without so much as kick or a flinch. Now I know that might not be the result every time but it was pretty impressive.
I have a large safe full of guns lots of tactical stuff AR's, FAL para, AK's, UZI's, and lots of pistols. But, I keep a SXS 12ga and a .45 Glock by my bed and sleep real good at night.
While hunting deer with dogs about 15yrs ago I had a deer pop out of some extremely thick brush at no more than 10 to 15 feet away. I imediately shot him with a Belgium made Browning Light 12 with 2 3/4" #1 buck shot at basically point blank range. It turned him a complete flip and landed him head first in the dirt without so much as kick or a flinch. Now I know that might not be the result every time but it was pretty impressive.
I have a large safe full of guns lots of tactical stuff AR's, FAL para, AK's, UZI's, and lots of pistols. But, I keep a SXS 12ga and a .45 Glock by my bed and sleep real good at night.
KevininPa
Member
Red Beard
Put a Limbsaver on that thing and you'll really love it! I had one put on mine and it made it a real pleasure to shoot. Also had sling swivels put on it for woods bumming carry. Next step is to make the safety "selective" only. I don't like the automatic feature when the breech is opened and closed. This way a fast cowboy reload is even faster.
Put a Limbsaver on that thing and you'll really love it! I had one put on mine and it made it a real pleasure to shoot. Also had sling swivels put on it for woods bumming carry. Next step is to make the safety "selective" only. I don't like the automatic feature when the breech is opened and closed. This way a fast cowboy reload is even faster.
Shot guns are great home defense weapons but there is a misconseption that you really don't have to aim to hit the intruder. At 12 feet which is common size and distance in a bedroom inside your home the shot pattern is approximatley 2.5 inches which is pretty darn close. Which in reality if you don't aim you could completely miss the intruder.
GRAYRID3R
Member
Nice coach gun Red. I have the same one . I love it.
The ability to pull both triggers at once is far from a compelling argument to. The split times on firing a second round from a semi is terribly small. Further at the end of those two rounds you have more. Those additional rounds are available much quicker than a reload or even a transition to a secondary, they also are vastly more powerful than rounds in said secondary.
Transitioning also requires that you have both guns and holster up the secondary.
I like coach guns. I think they are cool. They certainly can be used for HD. I think they take a back seat to other more modern options in terms of function. I recently shot a 3 gun style course at a private range. We used my S12, a mossy 500, and Remington spartan. The spartan's best time was roughly double that of the S12 (to be fair this spartan did have a stiff action and the shells only came out when you yanked them out). No you are unlikely to have that high of a round count in most probable HD scenarios. Three shots doesn't seem to a fanciful amount to think possible. That was the number fired by Joe Horn at two suspects for example. The time difference between firing three aimed shots from a semi or pump and a coach gun is fairly large.
This is very true but it would seem to me there would be a difference in how that same energy is being imparted. Imagine that you held that same shotgun a 5" from your chest and then fired it. It would have a very different result on you than when it is tucked tight into your shoulder. It still isn't going to knock you on your but but it will thump you much worse.
Transitioning also requires that you have both guns and holster up the secondary.
Counting on the physiological stop is risky business when you are talking about shooting someone let alone them seeing someone else get shot. Why slugs are impressive in power I have seen enough critters shot with them to know that cut in half is a very hyperbolic description. Honestly there is no way to no how any given person would react to seeing someone else shot they might be just as likely to run over and bash your head in with the crow bar they used to break in. Switching to your secondary? Tueller drills come to mind.
I like coach guns. I think they are cool. They certainly can be used for HD. I think they take a back seat to other more modern options in terms of function. I recently shot a 3 gun style course at a private range. We used my S12, a mossy 500, and Remington spartan. The spartan's best time was roughly double that of the S12 (to be fair this spartan did have a stiff action and the shells only came out when you yanked them out). No you are unlikely to have that high of a round count in most probable HD scenarios. Three shots doesn't seem to a fanciful amount to think possible. That was the number fired by Joe Horn at two suspects for example. The time difference between firing three aimed shots from a semi or pump and a coach gun is fairly large.
This is very true but it would seem to me there would be a difference in how that same energy is being imparted. Imagine that you held that same shotgun a 5" from your chest and then fired it. It would have a very different result on you than when it is tucked tight into your shoulder. It still isn't going to knock you on your but but it will thump you much worse.
Borderrat9062
Member
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Hi new member here. I just wanted to put my 2 cents in. Personally I have a Mossberg pump for my home defense gun. I love the thing and a 12 gauge will handle most situations you will ever come across. A side by side can be a viable home defense gun. Just like any other gun for the purpose of home defence the important thing is you take it out and practice with it. Remember the old saying you fight like you train. Any 12 gauge in the hands of someone who has practiced will have no problems.
Length of Shotgun
A shotgun is as close as you get for optimum home defense but some shotguns length, can be a negative factor but far better than nothing. I have a Rem. 870 Police issue, the shorter length and higher capacity magazine makes it a bad whammer jammer to come up on the wrong end of it!
Hope I never have to find out but it is always loaded and ready. IMO!
A shotgun is as close as you get for optimum home defense but some shotguns length, can be a negative factor but far better than nothing. I have a Rem. 870 Police issue, the shorter length and higher capacity magazine makes it a bad whammer jammer to come up on the wrong end of it!
Hope I never have to find out but it is always loaded and ready. IMO!
mljdeckard
Member
I think the OP is too concerned with short-stroking. I have NEVER short-stoked a pump shotgun. I was instructed when I was young, manhandle it. Treat it rough. You won't break it. Subtlety isn't something you have in your head when you are running a shotgun. When the adrenaline is running, nothing about running a pump gun seems too labor-intensive.
bushmaster1313
Member
Excellent choice if conmcerned about stage robbers
Ha, I've been looking at pads...shoulder hurts after a box of birdshot and a few slugs.
I already took a dremel tool to the auto action bar safety, hee-hee!
Federal flight control 00 buck inbound. Might also spring for some S&B #1 buck.
ghitch75
Member
Bounty Hunter 12g non-hammer sets next to the night stand with Centurion buck and ball in the pipes + 5 on butt strap...
oldpuppymax
Member
Nothing beats a shotgun for home defense.
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