Big Gay Al
Member
Regardless where I am, I always expect trouble, since I never know when "trouble" will raise it's ugly head.
Cocked and locked?
- Thread starter Nashmack
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BullfrogKen
Moderator Emeritus
Here I am with a now discontinued Milt Sparks Road Runner. I believe it was Tony that told me the current production #60 TK has superceded it. The most obvious difference between the two is the metal reinforcing band was moved from the aft end of the holster, around the triggerguard, to the front wrapping around the slide.
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JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone
Member
Cocked and Locked is the only way!!!
The shoulder rig doesn't have a brand name. But whoever made it knew what they were doing. It's incredibly comfortable. The Officer's ACP on the right is held by a HOYTE. Both of these have snap flap between the hammer and slide. Both are very secure.
-Steve
The shoulder rig doesn't have a brand name. But whoever made it knew what they were doing. It's incredibly comfortable. The Officer's ACP on the right is held by a HOYTE. Both of these have snap flap between the hammer and slide. Both are very secure.
-Steve
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For those carrying in Condition 2, can I ask what method you use to get it in that condition?
The only one I am aware of is to carefully drop the hammer down on the loaded chamber, which is highly dangerous.
Am I missing something here - is there another way? Or can this be done more easily with certain models of 1911's (maybe like those LDA Para's)?
I tried to post this on the 1911 Forum, but was locked because of the follow-up discussions that talk about the danger of lowering the hammer. I understand that - I would never do that on mine, and only want to know if there are other ways that I am not aware of.
The only one I am aware of is to carefully drop the hammer down on the loaded chamber, which is highly dangerous.
Am I missing something here - is there another way? Or can this be done more easily with certain models of 1911's (maybe like those LDA Para's)?
I tried to post this on the 1911 Forum, but was locked because of the follow-up discussions that talk about the danger of lowering the hammer. I understand that - I would never do that on mine, and only want to know if there are other ways that I am not aware of.
Big Gay Al
Member
While I'm not one to carry in a single action in condition 2, I have used the "carefully drop the hammer" method for many years, without a single accidental discharge. My Taurus PT-92AFS is DA/SA, and sometimes, I don't like having it cocked and locked. As it is, I don't see how carefully dropping the hammer is "highly dangerous." As long as you know what you are doing, and do it with care, it should not be a problem.D-Man said:
I've always seen DAO and de-cockers as a solution in search of a problem. However, the presence of a de-cocker on a firearm will not keep me from buying it, if I want it.
Marshall
Member
I'll put mine in Cond 2 once in a while, I'll drop the hammer. But I grew up as a revolver guy and it's second nature.
psychophipps
Member
I'm a bit leery of Condition 1 carry for a 1911. I realise that there are sears and safeties involved but my CCW instructor had a story about some guy showing his GF how safe his 1911 was as long as the safeties were on until he blew a hole into her heart with all the safeties on. The safeties and sears are the last thing anyone checks and you never really know if they work correctly unless you're willing to do a lot of dumb stuff to your weapon that 99% of firearms owners won't bother to do. Just my unqualified opinion, of course.
One thing that still gives me the heebie-jeebies is an episode of 'The Color of War' on the History Channel about the personal weapons in the Pacific Theater. Gives you a short clip during the bit about the 1911 where some guy on a ship is racking the slide on his 1911 while casually pointing it at his buddies, absolutely no muzzle discipline, while having his finger on the trigger the whole time. His buddies kind of looked down but acted like it was the most natural thing in the world to have a friend point his locked-and-cocked 1911 at them. Of course, I'd like to think that guy got his ass kicked for that case of the dumbass off camera.
Mark(psycho)Phipps( HAHAHA! )
One thing that still gives me the heebie-jeebies is an episode of 'The Color of War' on the History Channel about the personal weapons in the Pacific Theater. Gives you a short clip during the bit about the 1911 where some guy on a ship is racking the slide on his 1911 while casually pointing it at his buddies, absolutely no muzzle discipline, while having his finger on the trigger the whole time. His buddies kind of looked down but acted like it was the most natural thing in the world to have a friend point his locked-and-cocked 1911 at them. Of course, I'd like to think that guy got his ass kicked for that case of the dumbass off camera.
Mark(psycho)Phipps( HAHAHA! )
Jamie C.
Member
I'm sure there are lots of stories like this floating around.... Might even be a little truth to some of 'em.
In the end though.... does it really matter what kind of gun it was? Stupid is stupid, after all. And pointing a loaded gun at somebody you don't want to shoot is just plain stupid, no matter how many "safeties" the weapon has.
Maybe. Maybe not. The function of a mechanical safety isn't all that hard to check, nor would I call the procedure(s) "dumb stuff". Dumb stuff is pretty much the kind of behavior that gets people killed no matter who made the gun.
Try and remember that "The History Channel" is still TV, and is still subject to all that drive the industry. That includes "Drama before accuracy" and "ratings before truth". And for what it's worth, the History Channel isn't as accurate or truthful as they'd like to have you believe. They may do a better job than the local news station, but they still have a ways to go before I or a lot of other people will ever cite them as a reliable source on ANYTHING.
Also, in the incident you mention... would it have made any difference if it was a loaded Glock or Sig that was being pointed at the crewmen? Again, think about this very carefully.
Honestly, I'm not trying to advocate any one type of pistol or operating system over the other here.... I just want people to stop and think about what it is they're seeing or hearing that makes them uncomfortable, and ask themselves if it's really the gun or design that's "faulty", or if maybe it's the gun HANDLERS that are "defective" or dangerous.
J.C.
CPLofMARINES
Member
Kimber Classic Royal, cocked and locked, how it was designed to be carried.
Holster? FOBUS Good enough for Israeli Defense Force, good enough for me.
Semper Fi
Holster? FOBUS Good enough for Israeli Defense Force, good enough for me.
Semper Fi
C&L 35 year old Browning Hi Power. Was a little leery at first because I was used to carrying only revolvers, but going through scenarios where I would actually have to use the weapon c&l was the only way to carry. Way too much fumbling trying to rack the slide, especially with adrenaline flowing.
I've heard enough...
For all you worry warts just install this and be done with it.
Prior to the introduction of the S.F.S. system, the single action 1911 or the Browning Hi-Power could be carried in three modes:
1. Chamber empty, hammer down.
2. Chamber loaded, hammer down.
3. Chamber loaded, hammer cocked, safety locked.
To eliminate these three methods of carrying the Single Action pistol, the double action pistol mechanism was developed, allowing the hammer to be cocked by pulling the trigger. However, a double action pistol requires a heavier trigger pull and a longer movement of the trigger. This can be detrimental to accuracy because the different positioning of the trigger for the first shot may disturb the shooter. To offer a safer weapon, some manufacturers introduced an additional manual safety which made handling the pistol more confusing.
Browning High Power
SFS Browning HP Operation
The S.F.S. System eliminates all three of these carry modes and the problems associated with a double action pistol, creating a safer method of carry, faster use, and better accuracy. The S.F.S. system allows the pistol to be carried with the chamber loaded and the hammer down. When the pistol is carried in this condition, the hammer is locked, the sear is locked, the slide cannot be opened, and the trigger is locked.
The SAFETY FAST SHOOTING system combines the advantages of both mechanisms while eliminating their drawbacks. Available as a kit, it can be fitted into an existing pistol. The S.F.S. system is a drop-in kit.
The 1911 S.F.S. kit can be installed in a series 70 or series 80 style 1911. When installed in a series 80, the firing pin lockout system is still fully functional. The Browning Hi-Power S.F.S. kit can be installed in the new MK III Browning Hi-Power or the pre MK III Browning Hi-Power and the various clones. When installed in a MK III Browning Hi-Power, the S.F.S. kit retains the firing pin lockout system. The S.F.S. system does not eliminate the magazine disconnect on the Browning Hi-Power.
With the three safeties activated the S.F.S. allows the hammer to be cocked, and the safeties are then deactivated by simply pressing the ambidextrous safety lever with the thumb. The trigger pull remains light and accurate, allowing a very fast first shot.
Today, the Safety Fast Shooting kit is available for the Browning Hi-Power style pistols and 1911 style pistols.
For all you worry warts just install this and be done with it.
Prior to the introduction of the S.F.S. system, the single action 1911 or the Browning Hi-Power could be carried in three modes:
1. Chamber empty, hammer down.
2. Chamber loaded, hammer down.
3. Chamber loaded, hammer cocked, safety locked.
To eliminate these three methods of carrying the Single Action pistol, the double action pistol mechanism was developed, allowing the hammer to be cocked by pulling the trigger. However, a double action pistol requires a heavier trigger pull and a longer movement of the trigger. This can be detrimental to accuracy because the different positioning of the trigger for the first shot may disturb the shooter. To offer a safer weapon, some manufacturers introduced an additional manual safety which made handling the pistol more confusing.
Browning High Power
SFS Browning HP Operation
The S.F.S. System eliminates all three of these carry modes and the problems associated with a double action pistol, creating a safer method of carry, faster use, and better accuracy. The S.F.S. system allows the pistol to be carried with the chamber loaded and the hammer down. When the pistol is carried in this condition, the hammer is locked, the sear is locked, the slide cannot be opened, and the trigger is locked.
The SAFETY FAST SHOOTING system combines the advantages of both mechanisms while eliminating their drawbacks. Available as a kit, it can be fitted into an existing pistol. The S.F.S. system is a drop-in kit.
The 1911 S.F.S. kit can be installed in a series 70 or series 80 style 1911. When installed in a series 80, the firing pin lockout system is still fully functional. The Browning Hi-Power S.F.S. kit can be installed in the new MK III Browning Hi-Power or the pre MK III Browning Hi-Power and the various clones. When installed in a MK III Browning Hi-Power, the S.F.S. kit retains the firing pin lockout system. The S.F.S. system does not eliminate the magazine disconnect on the Browning Hi-Power.
With the three safeties activated the S.F.S. allows the hammer to be cocked, and the safeties are then deactivated by simply pressing the ambidextrous safety lever with the thumb. The trigger pull remains light and accurate, allowing a very fast first shot.
Today, the Safety Fast Shooting kit is available for the Browning Hi-Power style pistols and 1911 style pistols.
longtooth
Member
Kimber Pro Cocked & locked in a versa max 2. Springer A1 loaded full size, cocked & locked, in a Don Hume PCCH.
Ala Dan
Member in memoriam
Condition 1
Cocked and Locked for me as well, in a leather rig from the fine folk's
at Kirkpatrick Leather in Laredo, Texas~!
Cocked and Locked for me as well, in a leather rig from the fine folk's
at Kirkpatrick Leather in Laredo, Texas~!
Lennyjoe
Member
Same here. Cocked and locked in a Safariland IWB holster
mbott
Member
Cocked and locked. Yes, with my CZ 75 Compact .40 in a HBE holster.
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Mike
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Mike
iamhistory
Member
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2003
- Messages
- 248
Springfield full size 1911, cocked and locked (always and it is the correct way to carry a 1911 whether people are scared of it or not) and in a Sparks VMII.
Have a 1.5" Rafter S black cowhide belt with matching double mag carrier. Nice rig and all good quality. Best rig I've had for concealed carry. When I carry the 1911 owb, I use a simple Bianchi Shadow w/ thumbbreak just because it is a decent holster for a reasonable price. I almost always use my VMII though.
The pic shows two of my carry pistols, one being the 1911. My Glock is carried in a C.T.A.C. for iwb and a basic belt slide Fobus for when good concealment is not much of an issue.
I also have a nice Taurus 24/7 in 9mm and other handgun options for ccw that are not shown.
Have a 1.5" Rafter S black cowhide belt with matching double mag carrier. Nice rig and all good quality. Best rig I've had for concealed carry. When I carry the 1911 owb, I use a simple Bianchi Shadow w/ thumbbreak just because it is a decent holster for a reasonable price. I almost always use my VMII though.
The pic shows two of my carry pistols, one being the 1911. My Glock is carried in a C.T.A.C. for iwb and a basic belt slide Fobus for when good concealment is not much of an issue.
I also have a nice Taurus 24/7 in 9mm and other handgun options for ccw that are not shown.
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Sergeant Sabre
Member
Perhaps, but with a rifle in condition one.
MCgunner
Member
When I had a 1911, only way I carried it was in a thumb snap holster condition one with the strap in front of the hammer as another safety. It made me feel a lot better about having the hammer back while the muzzle was pointing at my butt cheek. 
No more 1911s, though. DA all the way for me. No snaps, no safeties, just draw and fire and no worries about shooting my butt off.
No more 1911s, though. DA all the way for me. No snaps, no safeties, just draw and fire and no worries about shooting my butt off.
CPLofMARINES
Member
Hey, hard chargers, did not realize that Nashmack's original question was, "what is an Israeli draw?"
Semper Fi
Semper Fi
sgb
Member
cocked and locked for 30yrs, Milt Sparks VM II
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