Col. Cooper & "Substitute Scouts"

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Read the Cooper definition of "scouting" again. It doesn't talk about firefights or sniper/countersniper action.

Don't really care about the rifle per se, but definitions matter. A lack of precision in discussion is part of what has led to our idiotic political situation.
 
Read his definition of "scout". He isn't necessarily talking about, say, my old Recon team.

Again, I DON'T CARE about the rifles merits or lack thereof. But criticize the definition the guy is actually using, not the one you come up with.
 
Nope, not trying to justify anything. I don't own a Steyr Scout and unless I win the lottery I probably never will, it's neat but I have no need for it. Where I live even .308 is a little light for a walking around gun. I have an iron sighted and forward scoped 1903 .30-06 for that, my dad gave it to me long ago.

Someone posted Cooper's actual definition of "scout" earlier. He has a single guy ghosting along waaaaaaaay behind the lines. Like the guy in Africa who spotted the German cruiser in the river in WWII or some mountain man seconded to the old horse cavalry. Maybe the Marine Lt. who found and solo killed the guy in Haiti in the early 1900's.

He is explicit about it not being my six man team or any similar deep recon unit.

I'm not sure if there IS a modern day equivalent. Maybe a scout-sniper pair but with no direct action mission. In any event, he has a definition. It would behoove you to quote it before criticizing it, if only to make sure you are countering his points and assumptions correctly and not waxing ferocious on claims he never made.
 
You gonna teach me how to suck eggs next?

I'll let you tell me what I should carry in Alaska for bear defense and general walking around when you've lived here, oh, say, all your life, like I have. Until then excuse me if I give your opinion just a hair less weight than my own.

I own a lightweight .308 auto rifle. I just can't seem to get it to fire 220 gr. hardcast reliably so I'll stick with my '06 for general purpose. I suppose someday I might get a .338 or something but I'm not sure it would do the job appreciably better than the rifle I've owned for 17 years. I kinda like the Springfield.
 
Can't we all just get along?

Here is my other scout with 10 round adaptor!

Image-50FCB5208A9B11DA.jpg
 
Yes it would, but I'm afraid I fall into that group that would rather pay less for something less. :D

My rifle does me fine. The only way it would happen would be on impulse after a good payday. I do like the way it feels, I think it's the looks that are affecting my old-before-my-time attitude.

I kinda like them but.....

I hope the pants in that picture aren't the ones you should have been wearing when you took it. Gun Porn indeed. :evil:
 
Cooper Commentaries Vol. 13, No. 10

You may note that I stick closely to "Steyr Scout" because of the misuse of the term "scout" by itself. Two domestic approximators are now producing what they evidently consider to be scout rifles, utilizing a term scout in the tradition of the old American West, which is not where I got it. My concept derived from the US military doctrine which defines a scout as a soldier working alone or in partnership with one other soldier. Frederick Russell Burnham was particularly proud of his title of "Chief of Scouts" under Lord Roberts in the Boer War. The scouts, of which Burnham was chief, were frontiersmen only coincidently. Basically they were reconnaissance troops sent out beyond lines to determine the location and operational conduct of the enemy. In one notable operation prior to his working for Lord Roberts, Burnham undertook the assassination of the enemy leader, which turned out to be a remarkable success - roughly paralleling Hanneken's assassination of Charlemagne Peralte in Haiti in 1918. Thus a scout can be a "hit man" if the occasion demands, but that is not his primary definition. According to a manual which I studied in high school, "A scout is a man trained in ground and cover, movement from cover to cover, map reading, rifle marksmanship, observation, and accurately reporting the results of his observation." Note the stipulation of rifle marksmanship. A scout must be a good shot - a good practical shot, a hunter. A "scout rifle" should be a rifle for such a man. As it turns out, the current Steyr Scout rifle is a good deal more than that, and what a happy development it turned out to be! What it is not, however, is a short, bolt-action rifle with the telescope mounted forward. The scout rifle does not need a telescope sight, and I used Scout I extensively in Central America mounting ghost-ring only. The features of the Steyr Scout now offered are primarily mine, except for the superb stock design, which is the result of Zedrosser and Bilgeri at Steyr. This stock is, in my opinion, a triumph - marvelously comfortable for almost everyone. I do not think it needs the optional length of pull. A short stock is no handicap to a man with long arms, whereas a long stock is uncomfortable for a shooter with short arms. I suggest simply abandoning the stock spacers on the Steyr Scout and leaving it at short option.

As now issued, the Steyr Scout has only a couple of minor drawbacks. Its magazine well should be cut forward about a quarter of an inch to facilitate breech inspection with the little finger. The bipod retaining pin should be made of metal rather than plastic, as it has been known to sheer with extensive use. It has no need for an intermediate sling socket on the starboard side, and it has no need to be offered in goofy calibers such as the 223.

I am clearly very proud of the Steyr Scout as it stands. I am mildly annoyed to see low-rate copies being offered by major producers. With firearms as with many other things in life, you get what you pay for.
 
I own two "approximate scouts" one by Savage and one built on the Marlin lever gun. I am under no delusion that either is a true scout by Cooper's definition.

They both handle every task I set them, and I don't set tasks for which they are ill suited. This is as it should be, and I am happy.
 
Correia said:
LAK, we do stuff like that. It's called 3gun rifle or USPSA tactical rifle. And its lots of fun. 99% of the good shooters run an AR variant.
Stating that "99% of the good shooters" use ARs does not address the purpose of my proposal; a side by side between an equal number of ARs and Scout-type bolt-actions from 25 to 300 yards on small relatively neutral colored and tone targets.

What specific type, size and color targets - and at what ranges - do these 3-gun and USPSA matches make use of?
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http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org
 
I am mildly annoyed to see low-rate copies being offered by major producers. With firearms as with many other things in life, you get what you pay for.



http://ruger.com/Firearms/FAProdView?model=17882&return=Y

This might be what is putting sand in the Col's shorts.

Lets see, a short barreled rifle. Check
Forward mounted scope. Check
Design based on the old Mauser 98. Good stuff
Lacks: detachable magazine or stripper guide.
Also lacks: insanely high price.:cool:

I've never heard of Ruger being called a low-rate manufacturer before, but there's a first for everything I guess.
 
cracked butt said:
Lets see, a short barreled rifle. Check
Forward mounted scope. Check
Design based on the old Mauser 98. Good stuff
Lacks: detachable magazine or stripper guide.
Also lacks: insanely high price.:cool:

Also lacks:

Synthetic stock
Third sling swivel
Ching Sling
Ghost ring sights
magazine cut-off of some kind

Also the ones I've handled had an action nowhere near as smooth as that of the Steyr. Add all this and you would increase the price quite a bit.

I have considered the Frontier, and still may get one, but I would have to add at least a few of the above items to it, just for personal satisfaction.
 
Steyr has actually improved on the Mauser action with their SBS system. Plus, you can get ten round mags for the Steyr, the Steyr has much better ergonomics (that are adjustable). Combine that with three inches of additional barrel length, extra features like a built-in bipod and wonderful adjustable trigger, and you know why the Col. is so enamored of the SS.
 
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