college student branded a criminal

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...law needs to be enforced or thrown out.

If you ask an attorney, he will tell you that the law is not nearly so black and white--there is a lot of gray area. Of course, if pressed, he will admit that most of an attorney's work is done in that gray area. And since attorneys write most of the laws, that is not likely to change.
 
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We are a nation of laws, not of men. I don't want to live in a nation where what is legal is dependent on the feelings of who is in charge, even if it goes well for me at the time. I don't want the law to be based on opinion, or enforced selectively based on political allegiance, even if the end result is in favor of my side at the time.

I want a nation of laws. I want a nation of dispassionate rule where a who is a criminal is decided by whether they fulfill a factual written definition, not on what a man decides is right at the time.

I can disagree with many laws, but I agree with the process that put them in place. And I respect that they are in place. The fact that bad laws screw some people some times, is far better than the alternative.

The person in question broke the law on the record. I may not agree with the law or why it was made, but it was made according to a process I DO agree with, and so be it.
 
The person in question broke the law on the record. I may not agree with the law or why it was made, but it was made according to a process I DO agree with, and so be it.

And that same process can work to rescind the law. It's a pretty good system.
 
There is no conflict in opposing a law, while subsequently respecting it. And there is no doubt that regardless of the law, leaving an unsecured loaded weapon in a common office area is stupid and irresponsible.
 
The Jury Nullification Law needs to be enforced.

Let a jury of her peers put the law up to the test.

Lawyers grow up to be one of two things, a crooked judge or a politician.
 
To change the Constitution requires a 2/3 vote of both houses of congress and the ratification of 3/4 of the states.

Passing and upholding unconstitutional law only requires a majority vote of congress and a complicit majority 5 appointed Justices -- IF it ever gets there. And then they don't even have to hear the case if they don't want to.

Ergo, I don't ascribe to the "rule of law" tripe when the lawmakers can overthrow the Constitution any time they see fit with a simple majority vote.
 
.... we (meaning us 2a supporters) always talk about how a firearm is just a tool so what if this was a drill or skilsaw? Would you still say "it was stupid for her to loan her friend her drill and leave it unattended.... so stupid in fact its criminal! "?

Dont lump me in with "we".

I think its foolish for 2A supporters to to this. 2A doesnt protect our right to hammers and screwdrivers.

This analogy does nothing but water down the 2A and give validity to the rationalization that guns should be requlated, taxed, etc etc just like a car.


You could rationalize that dynomite it just a tool. Yes, loaning out and leaving dynomite unattended in a place like described would be something I would consider foolish and fairly stupid.
 
There are so many laws on the books today that every single one of us has committed a felony.

Yes, but with campus shootings in recent years this is taken very seriously. And as a college student, it should be. However, the LICENSED possession of a gun on campus *should* be legalized. I know where I am the campus is just too large and police are too few (but that's always the case) to respond fast enough should someone with ill-intentions have a loaded gun.
 
it sucks for her, but leaving a loaded rifle? easy enough to drop the rounds out and carry them out. If she was nervious about being seen with a rifle.... a full sized towel and dont get distracted going to her car. then the whole taking position of the rifle in school. Lots of different problems here.
That being said i dont like all the laws here in regards to gun laws(i dont think im the only one here), but..... im not moving out of the country anytime soon.
I wish the best for all parties involved and dont wish this on anyone.
 
Yes, but with campus shootings in recent years this is taken very seriously. And as a college student, it should be.

Yeah people willing to commit mass murder probably wouldn't if it was illegal for them to have a gun there.
 
It does not appear the lady had 'intent to go armed' when possessing the long gun at school. She was loaning the rifle to use in a school play. Tennessee also gives an exception to folks using firearms for instructional or ceremonial use at schools.

At most I see her getting a misdemeanor fine because she did not have 'intent to go armed'. At best her lawyer can argue the firearm was used for instructional or ceremonial use at the school.

Stupid law. I used to keep a long gun at school quite frequently but it wasn't in Tennessee.
 
Unfortunately, it is illegal to have a gun at most schools. And really, the friend couldn't find a better time to return the rifle? I'm a student and I would never leave a gun on campus or bring one onto campus. It's illegal, stupid, jeopardizes my future and everything I have done, and the risks are just too high for the reward. The slim probability that I will need a gun to defend myself or stop a shooting at school is so much lower than the probability that I will get busted. 9 pound, 34 inch long stamped steel secrets are very hard to keep even if you can control access to where the secret is held. Things go missing from dorm rooms all the time. Throw in alcohol, drugs, lack of sleep, girlfriends, parties, visitors, group work projects, misplacing keys, and lack of respect for privacy, and unless you are a recluse in a single, the difficulty of keeping the secret rises from insane to insurmountable.

The bitter problem is that the schools maintain that we are the safest when we are the most defenseless and the only people who make media attention for their guns at school are school shooters. Therefore, gun=insane=violent=massacre. And other weapons are not allowed either, and don't trust campus security to believe in probable cause or side with you on an issue involving weapons, contraband, or even talking about such things. Even a totally passive thing such as concealable Level II or IIA body armor is going to look really out of place and why would you have body armor unless you were planning to go up against guns? And who has the guns? The Police. Personal defense and safety are really a crapshoot for college students. IF you live in an off-campus apartment not controlled by the school, then you can get away with at least being able to defend yourself there.

No disrespect to Campus Security, but being unarmed, having no arrest power, and not having any sort of body armor doesn't go a long way to building confidence.
 
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Yeah people willing to commit mass murder probably wouldn't if it was illegal for them to have a gun there.

Maybe you are missing my point, but I think you are actually misreading what I said. I am saying that people DO commit mass murder even though it is illegal for them to have a gun on the campus. Therefore, I find it very necessary for these laws to be enforced, but also find it necessary to legalize the licensed carry of firearms on campus as well.

It does not appear the lady had 'intent to go armed' when possessing the long gun at school. She was loaning the rifle to use in a school play. Tennessee also gives an exception to folks using firearms for instructional or ceremonial use at schools.

I did not mean to sound like she had ill-intentions at all, I was just saying that some people do. My school even has a shooting range as the basement of a building. We also have firearms that are used by students in traditional ceremonies (one dating back to the late 1800's)
 
No criminal intent? Interesting. She had a gun in her office on campus for multiple days before she resigned her job, left the illegal gun behind, then tried to retrieve it.

No criminal intent? I don't know. She certainly didn't do anything to try to rectify the problem when it came up and so the criminal activity was ongoing.

I am intrigued, however, as to how the student who returned the gun managed to do so without getting caught.
 
Maybe you are missing my point, but I think you are actually misreading what I said. I am saying that people DO commit mass murder even though it is illegal for them to have a gun on the campus. Therefore, I find it very necessary for these laws to be enforced, but also find it necessary to legalize the licensed carry of firearms on campus as well.


So what you're saying is that you believe gun control works.
 
STUPID decision #1: loan a LOADED, working weapon for a prop. Really?? She should have the gun removed from her just for that in my opinion. I am a very staunch "pro-gun" person so don't think I'm anti anything gun.
STUPID decision #2: not being there for the filming and keeping watch over the gun and taking it back home when friend was done with it.
#3: Knowing full well she is breaking the law by having it on campus, she could have called her friend and told him to hold on to it until she could handle it properly.
#4: Leaving it in an office unattended where others have access to it. WOW the stupidity doesnt stop.
Hopefully she can find some leniency from the judge, but if not, she can only blame herself. Its FOOLS like this that give us law abiding gun owners a bad name.
 
So what you're saying is that you believe gun control works.
It doesn't matter if it works, if something is the law it should be enforced. Your options are to obey the law or commit civil disobedience ala Gandhi and accept the consequences to demonstrate the injustice of the law.

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It doesn't matter that I agree with this law, or disagree. Setting aside the law for pragmatic reasons, and simply for the purposes of discussion, my greatest concern in this matter, is that the firearm was left unattended, loaded, and in defective condition. That is what frightens me the most.

It doesn't matter that we agree of disagree with any given law. That law is to be followed until it is changed. For fact there are laws that I find ineffective or irrational, but those are the laws. While I attempt to follow all laws, I am particularly keen to follow to-a-"t", those with which I disagree. If I do not, I have no moral high-ground on which to base my opposition to it, via my representatives who can rescind it.

I would think that the name The High Road would give pause to anyone who would even tacitly encourage or tolerate violations of any firearms law.

JMHO,

Geno
 
Setting aside the law for pragmatic reasons, and simply for the purposes of discussion, my greatest concern in this matter, is that the firearm was left unattended, loaded, and in defective condition.

+1

Since when do we need a law to enforce common sense???
 
I have a problem with somebody smart enough to gain admittance to college leaving a loaded firearm unattended and accessible to the public for days on end. It would seem that a lesson is in order for this young lady. After all, a college is a place of learning, and she's about to do just that.
 
Your arguments confound me.

No, it's true. There are a bewildering array of state and federal felonies and de facto felonies on the books. If you've driven too close to a school while legally having a firearm in your vehicle (but not on a locked rack), for example, you've committed a federal felony.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-Free_School_Zones_Act_of_1990

There are also a bewildering array of more obscure federal laws that could lead to felony charges. They're rarely enforced against people, but that doesn't mean you and I never violate them. The governments have created a world where if they choose, they can convict a person of something. Nobody is law abiding anymore. Even if you *are* perfectly law abiding, it's incredibly easy to put you away as a felony. For example even speaking with federal agents is a felony if they can find someone to claim you were lying to them. Put you in prison as a "material witness," get your cell mate to claim you admitted to him you were lying and presto you're up on felony charges for false statements even though you never gave sworn testimony and never lied.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_false_statements

There but for the grace of the state go any one of us. This girl did something stupid and no firearm with live rounds is a proper "prop." But she doesn't deserve criminal prosecution.

It's a pretty good system.

No it isn't. It's broken and dysfunctional.
 
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This girl did something stupid and no firearm with live rounds is a proper "prop."
Good point. We rent guns to the movie industry and they're all converted to fire blanks for the duration. We also don't just hand them over, someone has to remain with them at all times, and for safety-sake they are checked multiple times when in use.
 
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