Colt Producing New Model 1903 Pistols

[Monac]

Thanks, tipoc. I'm glad I didn't get that all screwed up. I always like that bit about how the Navy found the problem because "they apparently shot the guns"!

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

I'm suprised they didn't re-release the 1908 version which is a .380, for the CCW market that's ever growing.

I doubt they considered a $1300 pistol this size to be in the CC market even in .380. I don't think the idea with the limited production of these was to appeal to the concealed carry crowd.

As other have pointed out the market is *huge* with .380 pistols already. I have 4 Pocket Hammerless (and carry them!) but if I'm gonna pocket carry a .380 (and I do!) I'll choose my Beretta Pico or similar. No, I think this gun is aimed at collectors and aficionados of the type. If they sell like hot cakes and there is an extended run?

Maybe then but I doubt it.

VooDoo

 

[Old Fuff]

Happened across an estate auction with lots going on the block tomorrow (Jan 28, 2015). Among them was a very decent .32 Colt Pocket Model.

Colt 1903 Pocket Hammerless in .32 ACP (FFL No. L-249) Barrel length on this Colt is 3-3/4". Finish is a deep charcoal blue. Grips are hard rubber and are in excellent shape. Overall condition is at 90%. Bore is excellent. This is an early model with lots of condition. Metal surfaces have some light rust spots. Includes one mag. SN-446739

It was apparently made during late 1925. The finish is Gas Oven Blue, not Charcoal Blue. They're is a big difference, but most folks don't know it. I don't believe anyone is duplicating it today, and this pistol has about 90% of its original finish. I think it's closer to 95%. Stocks are black hard rubber - among the last ones before Colt changed to checkered walnut. Shooters should note that the bore is rated "excellent."

In other words this is a excellent representative piece of original Colt history, that can double as a shooter as well. Modest use won't affect its value in a negative sense at all.

At the moment (about 5:30 pm/Arizona time/1-27-2015) the high bid is $475, with required future bids to be in $25. increments or more.

I suspect it will sell for 1/2 or less of the new reproduction's MSRP.

https://www.proxibid.com/asp/catalog.asp?aid=89763

 

[gyvel]

Sadly, many of these reintroduced reproductions never come to fruition. A while back (80s, I think), a Texas company was going to start remanufacturing Browning 1910s. Even had a write up in Gun Digest, but it never came to be. Don't be surprised if this Colt project dies on the vine, too.

 

[eastbank]

i just bought this 03 colt in .32acp at a local gun show for 325.00 tax and transfer included. very good outside and ex inside. eastbank.

 

[Panzerschwein]

I think they're intending to. That said, I don't see these reissues as aimed at the CCW market. More of a collector's item and range fun gun, I think.

Well I hope they re-release it... I might have to get one. I know it's going to cost, I don't expect to get one for nothing.

But, they should make more than just enough to feed the collectors, whom I personally do not like. Guns were meant for SHOOTING.

 

[Old Fuff]

But, they should make more than just enough to feed the collectors, whom I personally do not like. Guns were meant for SHOOTING.

Well that's one perspective, and a debatable one.

But the point I want to make is that this isn't a shooter vs. collector issue, because as I and others have previously point out - good shooters are available for a lot less then $1300.

And I expect the regular blued and royal blued versions will cost much more, and offer no benefit to shooters.

This pistol is aimed directly at the collector's market for a good reason. At $1300 and higher not enough shooters would buy it to support the cost of production - especially when satisfactory "shooting grade" pistols, that also have a potential collector's value, are available for half the price.

 

[DPris]

And here, in actual observable real life, you see exactly what would happen if Colt were to bring back the much-requested Python.

Costs too much.
Doesn't look as nice as the originals.
Won't be made the same way.
Not the same gun.
For collectors, not us real shooters.
I can buy a used one for less.

I see very few of the posters who expressed a "Why Doesn't Colt bring back the 1903? I'd buy one!" on the various forums over the years shouting with joy, or even saying "Yay! Where do I send my check?"

Actually quite amusing to watch.
Denis

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

I dunno, Dennis. I'm still pretty hyped about having one and my Wife and I are putting the money back right now. I'm sure there will be others.

I will want to see it actually happen and see some pretty detailed pix of what I can expect from my new 1903 and I don't expect much beyond "decent" and well built. I don't expect perfection or even precision just "good" and timely. I guess the 21st century has left me pretty skeptical. Nothing in the gun/firearm world leaves me more skeptical than gunboard discussions. I'm not gonna buy, not buy, or reach any conclusions based on what I read here at THR or on any other gun board. I have not found gun discussion forums to have their "finger on the pulse" of the gun buying public since my return to hand gunning about 2 years ago.

VooDoo

 

[DPris]

Vod,
You're one of the minority, and there'd be a certain small number of people who'd share your attitude in the case of the Python if Colt could ever bring it back.

A few would say, "Neato! Think I'll shall acquire one."

While the rest of the forum people would be chipping it to death, as mentioned above.

I wouldn't mind having one of the new 1903s myself, waiting like you to see if & when.
Denis

 

[Old Fuff]

I'm still pretty hyped about having one and my Wife and I are putting the money back right now. I'm sure there will be others.

Of course they're will be...

Unquestionably they're are some that will buy it because they want it, and for them, no matter what the reason, the cost isn't an issue.

You can be sure the maker and Colt took a hard look at the potential market before they jumped, and took everything into consideration.

The real issue is, is they're enough serious buyers that will, when the time comes, lay down cold, hard cash. A certain number is necessary or the maker won't break even, let alone make a profit.

Right now that's what the open question is.

 

[Monac]

DPris said: And here, in actual observable real life, you see exactly what would happen if Colt were to bring back the much-requested Python.

Costs too much.
Doesn't look as nice as the originals.
Won't be made the same way.
Not the same gun.
For collectors, not us real shooters.
I can buy a used one for less.

I see very few of the posters who expressed a "Why Doesn't Colt bring back the 1903? I'd buy one!" on the various forums over the years shouting with joy, or even saying "Yay! Where do I send my check?"

Actually quite amusing to watch.
Denis

You could be right, DPris. On the other hand, the replicas of the S&W Schofield revolvers seemed to have sold moderately well for quite a long time, despite being very expensive and of limited use as shooters. People want new Pythons so they can shoot them; these Colt 1903's are more collectors items and thus more like the Schofields, IMO.

 

[Old Fuff]

The pistol I mentioned in post #103 was sold to an on-site bidder for $600. Fees or sales tax may bring that up to $675 give-or take. It's up to a potential buyer to decide which is the better deal.

Just for grins, if I offered a Python in 95% finish/98% mechanical condition for $700 would they're be a land rush?

 

[DPris]

Mon,
Which Schofields, the actual S&Ws or the Italians?

S&W couldn't make enough off their re-intro to keep the gun in production.
The Italian versions are expensive, but not as expensive as a US-made Schofield of excellent quality would be.

Denis

 

[Rinspeed]

At the moment (about 5:30 pm/Arizona time/1-27-2015) the high bid is $475, with required future bids to be in $25. increments or more.

I suspect it will sell for 1/2 or less of the new reproduction's MSRP.

https://www.proxibid.com/asp/catalog.asp?aid=89763

Very nice Sig 220/Browning BDA in that auction.

 

[Old Fuff]

Very nice Sig 220/Browning BDA in that auction.

There was a ton of nice stuff in that auction, and that was the first half of an estate sale. The second half will go on the block in February.

Among other things was an early S&W model 30 snubby in .32 S&W Long that was absolutely mint.

Thing was, I didn't want to start a massive thread drift.

 

[Monac]

Mon,
Which Schofields, the actual S&Ws or the Italians?

S&W couldn't make enough off their re-intro to keep the gun in production.
The Italian versions are expensive, but not as expensive as a US-made Schofield of excellent quality would be.

Denis

I'm not familiar with the Smith & Wesson replica Schofields; did they actually make those themselves? I just assumed they contracted with one of the Italian makers, like Colt did for its black-powder Colt repros. But you are right in that that is probably why no one is talking about keeping this 1903 repro in production; they are talking about making one batch, and then getting out, presumably while they are ahead.

 

[rcmodel]

S&W made the 'new' Scofield as introduced at the 2000 Shot Show.


S&W stated emphatically that it was an entirely domestic production with absolutely NO Italian parts!

It was made from 2000 to 2003, then dropped from the line.

MSRP was $1,548.95.

The only one I have handled and examined closely was a very fine gun.
But not as fine as the real deal.

rc

 

[RPRNY]

I've never handled an original Schofield but would love to. I have an Uberti replica in 45 Colt and I really really like it.

 

[DPris]

I worked with the S&W Schofield re-intro, nice gun.
Much more expensive than the Italian repros (and better quality), which again illustrates that you can't compare domestic repros with Italian repros, and that any long obsolete classic design brought back is simply going to cost big bucks if done to acceptable quality levels.
Denis

 

[Billy Shears]

People want new Pythons so they can shoot them; these Colt 1903's are more collectors items and thus more like the Schofields, IMO.

As to the Pythons... Over at Grant Cunningham's site, he has a blog post about his recent trip to the 2015 Shot Show.

In other news, I had a long chat with Brent Turchi at Colt... Naturally, we talked about the Python. As he’s told me in years past, the Python as we all know and love it isn’t coming back. The name might, but it won’t be the same gun. This time, though, we played a little “what if”: what if Colt did have the means and the desire to bring back the Python? Could they make one of high quality, and what would it sell for?

As Brent told me, he felt that they could bring back the Python and build it to the same quality as any they’ve ever built. He said that their new manufacturing processes and equipment, along with some very talented Custom Shop gunsmiths, could produce a Python to rival the best Pythons.

The trouble is that they would have a limited market due to the cost. I asked him if they’d done any cost analysis on a resurrected Python, and he smiled and confirmed that they had in fact done so. Naturally I asked the question: how much? The answer was about what I’d expected: a new production Python would need to sell in excess of $3,000 for them to make any money. At that price point neither of us sees Colt selling sufficient units to make it worthwhile.

So no one should expect any new production Pythons. As I said on a much earlier post on this thread, the vast majority of the people who are screaming at Colt to make them will not actually by the guns at the prices Colt would have to charge just to break even, let alone make a profit.

But they can produce (or contract for) a gun like the Model 1903, because while old for an auto pistol design, and comparatively labor intensive to produce, it's still much simpler than their old revolvers, and requires less hand fitting by skilled artisans, so it can sell for half of what they'd have to sell a new production Python for. And even at that, it's going to be a limited run, for a limited market.

 

[DPris]

That's what I've been saying for years about the Python, and again the idea's clearly illustrated in the talk about the 1903.

A Python bringback, at previous quality levels, would be so expensive that Colt could NOT sell enough to bother with.

People here complain that the 1903 as announced & at its price level would be a "collector-only" gun.

A new Python would simply be far beyond what 99% of even the diehard Python Fan Club would be willing to pay for one, and among the rest of the market not familiar with them, that pricetag would immediately send anybody looking for a new user .357 straight to the Smith or Ruger in the next display case at the gunshop.

I have a very small handful of $2000 handguns, but I didn't buy them at that price, I bought standard & had them upgraded.

How many of you who've kept on pleading for a Python return would HONESTLY spend three grand for a .357 shooter?
Denis

 

[CraigC]

And I expect the regular blued and royal blued versions will cost much more, and offer no benefit to shooters.

Nonsense. I shoot every single one of my guns and won't own one that I won't shoot. Polished blue finishes are very important to me.

And here, in actual observable real life, you see exactly what would happen if Colt were to bring back the much-requested Python....

Exactly!

 

[Old Fuff]

Nonsense. I shoot every single one of my guns and won't own one that I won't shoot. Polished blue finishes are very important to me.

I don't doubt it, but an expensive bright blue finish doesn't make the gun - no matter what it is - shoot any better. Were you to strip the gun to bare metal they're would be no difference in the group on the target. Unquestionably there can be different results between individual guns of the same kind by the same maker, but finish in an of itself has nothing to do with it.

I presume that if a person buys a gun to carry, use and shoot they will do exactly that. Sooner or later this will result in finish wear, expect perhaps stainless steel. Knowing this I pick firearms on the basis of how they shoot (reliability and accuracy) and not so much on how they look.