Compact [CCW] 9mm that can handle +P+
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rcmodel
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Counter productive to use +P+ in a compact to start with.
Sharper recoil & blast will slow down fast follow-up shots.
And a lot of +P+ will not outperform standard pressure ammo in a very short barrel anyway.
If you need more performance then standard or +P 9mm, get a .40 S&W version of the gun.
rc
Sharper recoil & blast will slow down fast follow-up shots.
And a lot of +P+ will not outperform standard pressure ammo in a very short barrel anyway.
If you need more performance then standard or +P 9mm, get a .40 S&W version of the gun.
rc
No manufacturer will warranty their 9mm for +P+ as there is no standard for pressure beyond +P. +P+ is a desidgnation that says the rounds chamber pressure is greater than the maximum SAAMI +P. +P+ is only sold to Law Enforcement and military. Using it in your personal handgun is done at your own risk. If you want to know if your compact will hold up to it then buy some of the available +P+ surplus and shooit it in your gun but if you want guarantees you won't get any. If you want to carry +P+ then buy a box, shoot 1/2 to make sure they feed and function, and then reserve that ammo for carry and potential SD use. Practice on targets with standard velocity. I don't get a significant difference in point of impact with +P+ ammo vrs standard ball. +/= an inch or two at 25 yds or less isn't anything I worry about.
Logically one would believe that any of the commonly used full size handguns carried by Police and the military would "hold up" to these loads intended for duty carry. However the heavier loads will likely shorten the mechanical life of the handgun, something that's not important to LEO's as their guns are generally changed out before any damage will occur and they usually practice with lower powered range ammo and carry the +P+ for serious work.
Logically one would believe that any of the commonly used full size handguns carried by Police and the military would "hold up" to these loads intended for duty carry. However the heavier loads will likely shorten the mechanical life of the handgun, something that's not important to LEO's as their guns are generally changed out before any damage will occur and they usually practice with lower powered range ammo and carry the +P+ for serious work.
So a 9mm handgun that isn't rated for 9mm +P would be able to shoot it just fine?
JERRY
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Pyro, the +p ammo will accelerate wear and tear on the gun. many guns these days are made with the lightest material possible, not the strongest. their size and by virtue their design many times doesnt allow for beefy parts where it counts.
yes, a pf9 can shoot +p ammo. yes it will wear it out sooner than reduced power loads.
yes, a pf9 can shoot +p ammo. yes it will wear it out sooner than reduced power loads.
Arthur2001
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You can consider to go with a H&K USP Compact. A friend of mine was quite happy with his H&K USP Comp. I shooted more than 300 rounds it is reliable and very very accurate, like a full size pistol.
CCW a H&K USP Compact is not an issue with a good kydex IWB holster at all
Cheers
CCW a H&K USP Compact is not an issue with a good kydex IWB holster at all
Cheers
There are 2 issues:
1) Cycling reliably
2) Breakage
The CM9 and PM9 will handle +P without flat-out breaking, which can't be said for the DB9 (if the negative reports are to be believed), and they cycle the+P reliably. But as has been stated, +P ammo is going to cause more wear and tear on the gun as opposed to std pressure.
IMO you're better off carrying a "heavy for caliber" loading in your short barreled CCW than a +P
For instance, the good 147gr 9mm personal defense rounds are going to penetrate to between 13" and 14" and expand to roughly .60"
Unless you give credence to the hydrostatic shock priciple or theories of "hard hitting" bullets, a 60 cal - 13" wound channel is about as good as it gets from a device that also fits in a pocket. IMO, a 9mm CCW is never going to get a 9mm projectile going fast enough that the temporary wound cavity is significant, and most of the sound & fury of the +P is wasted in a short barrelled pistol anyway. It makes a lot of noise, they are harder on the wrists and harder on the pistol, but don't create much improvement in wound dynamics.
1) Cycling reliably
2) Breakage
The CM9 and PM9 will handle +P without flat-out breaking, which can't be said for the DB9 (if the negative reports are to be believed), and they cycle the+P reliably. But as has been stated, +P ammo is going to cause more wear and tear on the gun as opposed to std pressure.
IMO you're better off carrying a "heavy for caliber" loading in your short barreled CCW than a +P
For instance, the good 147gr 9mm personal defense rounds are going to penetrate to between 13" and 14" and expand to roughly .60"
Unless you give credence to the hydrostatic shock priciple or theories of "hard hitting" bullets, a 60 cal - 13" wound channel is about as good as it gets from a device that also fits in a pocket. IMO, a 9mm CCW is never going to get a 9mm projectile going fast enough that the temporary wound cavity is significant, and most of the sound & fury of the +P is wasted in a short barrelled pistol anyway. It makes a lot of noise, they are harder on the wrists and harder on the pistol, but don't create much improvement in wound dynamics.
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Maddox Se7en
Member
9x19 +P+ ammunition is probably an irresponsible choice for handguns. Unless the manufacturer warrants the gun for use with +P+ or +P, I would recommend against it's use. I own a PF-9 which I have had a few thousand rounds through. It's recoil from standard pressure 9mm is pretty snappy. With a higher pressure round, a follow up shot could be fatally slow.
If you cannot achieve the necessary penetration, range or accuracy with standard 9mm, it may be time to upgrade to a higher powered caliber such as .357 Sig, or 10mm. There are plenty of options for concealable sized guns in those calibers.
If you cannot achieve the necessary penetration, range or accuracy with standard 9mm, it may be time to upgrade to a higher powered caliber such as .357 Sig, or 10mm. There are plenty of options for concealable sized guns in those calibers.
MICHAEL T
Member
I tried +P in my PF-9 Not best Idea . I went back to non +P Quicker follow up shots .
AK103K
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Ive shot a bunch of +P+ out of a number of guns with no ill effects. I currently use it in a couple of Glocks.
As far as moving up to 357SIG, interestingly enough, my 31 in 357SIG showed a considerable amount of accelerated wear with factory 357SIG, than my one 17 shows (which is at this point, just some slight finish discoloring in the same spot) and it will probably pass 50000 rounds fired before the year is out. Ive fired more +P+ through the 17 than I did 357SIG through the 31 too.
I havent found +P+ is any harder to shoot with, but I do practice with fairly hot reloads, so there really isnt any difference in feel in what Im shooting in practice and what Im carrying. I seriously doubt you could tell the difference in +P and +P+ if you didnt know what was in the gun.
Now if you get out of the +P+ realm, and get into some of the SMG loaded 9mm, you may have something more to worry about. I have had a gun show pretty extreme wear, to the point of cracking the upper and breaking some other parts using some surplus Spanish stuff. Then again, it, and some of the others Ive fired over the years, make current +P+ seem like target loads.
As far as moving up to 357SIG, interestingly enough, my 31 in 357SIG showed a considerable amount of accelerated wear with factory 357SIG, than my one 17 shows (which is at this point, just some slight finish discoloring in the same spot) and it will probably pass 50000 rounds fired before the year is out. Ive fired more +P+ through the 17 than I did 357SIG through the 31 too.
I havent found +P+ is any harder to shoot with, but I do practice with fairly hot reloads, so there really isnt any difference in feel in what Im shooting in practice and what Im carrying. I seriously doubt you could tell the difference in +P and +P+ if you didnt know what was in the gun.
Now if you get out of the +P+ realm, and get into some of the SMG loaded 9mm, you may have something more to worry about. I have had a gun show pretty extreme wear, to the point of cracking the upper and breaking some other parts using some surplus Spanish stuff. Then again, it, and some of the others Ive fired over the years, make current +P+ seem like target loads.
checkmyswag
Member
Id go w a 40 and not risk it with a 9mm and I'm not a 40 guy.
Also shot placement FTW!
Also shot placement FTW!
JERRY
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The problem many folks have is trying to get a "pocket" gun to deliver the performance of a service sized gun.
Thats just not going to happen in any caliber.
Use the gun for its intended purposes and you will be better served than pushing the gun's limits.
ALSO, THE 9MM IS DESIGNED TO PENETRATE DEEP. HOW YOU REDUCE THAT PENETRATION IS UP TO YOU.
EVEN THE FBI WONT ADMIT IT BUT THE "MIAMI SHOOT OUT" FIASCO SHOWED THAT THE ROUND (9MM STHP) PERFORMED AS DESIGNED AND INTENDED. IT WAS HOW IT WAS APPLIED THAT CAUSED THE "CALIBER WAR".
Thats just not going to happen in any caliber.
Use the gun for its intended purposes and you will be better served than pushing the gun's limits.
ALSO, THE 9MM IS DESIGNED TO PENETRATE DEEP. HOW YOU REDUCE THAT PENETRATION IS UP TO YOU.
EVEN THE FBI WONT ADMIT IT BUT THE "MIAMI SHOOT OUT" FIASCO SHOWED THAT THE ROUND (9MM STHP) PERFORMED AS DESIGNED AND INTENDED. IT WAS HOW IT WAS APPLIED THAT CAUSED THE "CALIBER WAR".
Well let me explain the statement a bit better. +P+ is only manufactured for and sold to Law Enforcement and military by the manufacturers and not intended for the civilian market. Such ammo finds its way into the civilian market via the surplus rout. You won't find factory direct +P+ ammo manufactured by the major companies for sale to the general public that was not first ordered by LEO or Military procurement and then diverted to the civilian market when the order was canceled or sold to resellers as surplus. If your firearm is damaged by +P+ ammo you will have little to no legal recourse in getting compensation to repair you firearm. Not from the ammo or the firearm manufacturer.
I've never seen +P+ ammo sold at any of the "Big Box" stores but they do sell +P which is considered a "safe" SAAMI pressure level for modern handguns.
mljdeckard
Member
If I wanted more energy and velocity than a standard 9mm will give......I would get a .357 Sig.
mljdeckard
Member
Exactly what is it you think hotter 9mm will do from that gun that standard pressure won't do?
HadEmAll
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My Beretta PX4SC and Beretta Nano handle Winchester Ranger 127 and 115 grain +P+ very nicely.
EdJennings
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I have a PF9 that I carry on a regular basis. With standard velocity HP ammo, I can empty the mag into an 8" paper plate as fast as I can pull the trigger from 5-7 yards. As someone mentioned earlier, the gun is a little snappy but certainly controlable in rapid fire. If 8 HP's won't do the job, I would probably need a lot more gun and backup to boot.
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