Comparing Seating Depth of Three 9mm Bullet Brands

lordpaxman said:
I’m glad I didn’t spring for the Redding competition micro die if this is all it does! :)

I’m circling back to your OP, I thought you were really concerned about COL to negate feeding issues? Yet it seems like you’re seating on ogive, which may or may not be the same across these bullets. Rather than measuring bullet OAL, shouldn’t you measure bullet base to ogive or something?
And, I know seating depth is extremely important, but, unless you’re on the edge a few or even ten thou is not going to put you in kaboom territory.
Click to expand...
Well this has morphed into something I never intended. I started this only because I bought a new brand bullet I've never used and thought it'd be interesting to compare. Then, finding quite a variance between brands, thought others might be interested. Silly me.

The ogive seating is simply a result of the way the die came, not anything I decided.

Back in 2019 I found a COL (1.135") that worked reliably in my several Berettas as well as 1911s and have loaded that length ever since. I've never measured anything else and since it's only data mfrs provide...it's a good thing. What would I do if it told me my COL wasn't the right one after all:)?
 
lordpaxman said:
I’m glad I didn’t spring for the Redding competition micro die if this is all it does! :)

I’m circling back to your OP, I thought you were really concerned about COL to negate feeding issues? Yet it seems like you’re seating on ogive, which may or may not be the same across these bullets. Rather than measuring bullet OAL, shouldn’t you measure bullet base to ogive or something?
And, I know seating depth is extremely important, but, unless you’re on the edge a few or even ten thou is not going to put you in kaboom territory.
Click to expand...
Hunting loads will tend to get closer to the edge within the realm of accuracy simply because they will also tend to deliver the best results. Not always but that’s the tendency. When a crimp groove or cannelure is involved the debate turns to a mud slinging match so let’s not go there. Just suffice to say if you are getting random 200+ thousandth variation in seating a 9mm there’s a flaw in your process you are either deliberately ignoring or blind to.
 
GeoDudeFlorida said:
Hunting loads will tend to get closer to the edge within the realm of accuracy simply because they will also tend to deliver the best results. Not always but that’s the tendency. When a crimp groove or cannelure is involved the debate turns to a mud slinging match so let’s not go there. Just suffice to say if you are getting random 200+ thousandth variation in seating a 9mm there’s a flaw in your process you are either deliberately ignoring or blind to.
Click to expand...
Or you're testing a new component before introducing it into real world, find an apparent anomaly, and thus demonstrate your process works.

The latest variance (1.137 v 1.135) is same mathematical difference identified in OP which was widely and I believe unanimously viewed as normal or no problemo.

Edit: I'm stupid, sorry. It was a typo,
 
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CQB45ACP said:
the OALs were 1.135, 1.135, 1.355, and 1.137.
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OP, I think the one we keep looking at is the one at 1.355.
That is a significant deviation from the 1.135 and 1.137 of the other rounds. That is what some are asking about a typo.
The difference of 1.135 to 1.137 is no big deal, but a difference of 1.135 to 1.355 is a whopping big deal.
Maybe a different sized, profile, weight, etc, bullet made it in the mix.
 
mstreddy said:
OP, I think the one we keep looking at is the one at 1.355.
That is a significant deviation from the 1.135 and 1.137 of the other rounds. That is what some are asking about a typo.
The difference of 1.135 to 1.137 is no big deal, but a difference of 1.135 to 1.355 is a whopping big deal.
Maybe a different sized, profile, weight, etc, bullet made it in the mix.
Click to expand...
Well I'll be darned!!! You're completely right...it's a typo! Sorry to you and everyone and @Soonerpesek. My phone is really small but that's a lame excuse.
 
CQB45ACP said:
Well I'll be darned!!! You're completely right...it's a typo! Sorry to you and everyone and @Soonerpesek. My phone is really small but that's a lame excuse.
Click to expand...
I figured it was, but when asked you stated that’s what you meant to type….
That’s where MY confusion began….
But that’s not difficult when considering myself…
 
CQB45ACP said:
I'll pull the bullets today and measure them again. Should all be .556"
Click to expand...
I have never had a batch of plated bullets that were all exactly the same length, there is a variance.

So for seating depth measurements you would need t know the exact length of each bullet and the exact OAL of each round.

That variance is usually less than the loaded rounds OAL variance, which for my 9MM RN is a .005 spread on OAL
 
Walkalong said:
I have never had a batch of plated bullets that were all exactly the same length, there is a variance.

So for seating depth measurements you would need t know the exact length of each bullet and the exact OAL of each round.

That variance is usually less than the loaded rounds OAL variance, which for my 9MM RN is a .005 spread on OAL
Click to expand...
Got it and yes I'm accustomed to a slight variance among bullets of same brand and even across the two brands I used until now. Never did anything about it.

My OAL variance is up to .005ish but I tried for a solid 1.135"each and every time but confess to not measuring each round. Works fine and haven't had a FTFeed since I "discovered" this multi-pistol sweet spot. My goal was always a grab and go round without thinking about the pistol or mag I'd be using.

It was the big (relatively) swing with this new brand that jumped out. I've sorted them by size just for fun and will ensure no cross contamination with other sizes or brands. It's all good.
 
Walkalong said:
I have never had a batch of plated bullets that were all exactly the same length, there is a variance.

So for seating depth measurements you would need t know the exact length of each bullet and the exact OAL of each round.

That variance is usually less than the loaded rounds OAL variance, which for my 9MM RN is a .005 spread on OAL
Click to expand...
Same for me, especially when using mixed range brass with different headstamp.

If I want more consistent OAL, I will use jacketed bullets like RMR in-house and sort brass by headstamp to reduce OAL variance down to .001" (Following OAL variance measured were even from progressive with full shellplate and unsorted by resized lengths) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ting-for-oal-consistency.911743/post-12891481
  • Blazer unsorted - OAL of 1.128"-1.133" (.005" variance)
  • G.F.L. unsorted - OAL of 1.129"-1.133" (.004" variance)
  • .FC. unsorted - OAL of 1.128"-1.131" (.003" variance)
  • FC unsorted - OAL of 1.130"-1.132" (.002" variance)
  • WIN unsorted - OAL of 1.131"-1.133" (.002" variance)
  • R-P unsorted - OAL of 1.133"-1.134" (.001" variance)
  • R-P "." unsorted - OAL of 1.134"-1.135" (.001" variance)
 
CQB45ACP said:
I tried for a solid 1.135"each and every time but confess to not measuring each round. Works fine and haven't had a FTFeed since I "discovered" this multi-pistol sweet spot
Click to expand...
Mine at 1.130 to 1.135 OAL never fail to feed. If a bullet can't feed unless it is exactly at 1.135, it's a bad bullet.
Most can feed on a lot bigger variance than that.
 
Walkalong said:
Mine at 1.130 to 1.135 OAL never fail to feed. If a bullet can't feed unless it is exactly at 1.135, it's a bad bullet.
Most can feed on a lot bigger variance than that.
Click to expand...
BTW max and working OAL that will reliably feed from magazine listed by firearm/barrel and bullet brands/weights - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ng-oal-col-for-reference.848462/post-12249361

Sample of one pistol/barrel:

Glock 22, KKM 40-9 conversion barrel, factory G17 magazine:
  • Montana Gold 95 gr JHP: 1.100"
  • RMR 95 gr FMJ: 1.150"
  • X-Treme 100 gr RNFP: 1.100"
  • Berry's 115 gr RN: 1.169"
  • Berry's 115 gr HBRN-TP: 1.169"
  • Hornady 115 gr HAP: 1.145"
  • HSM 115 gr RN: 1.169"
  • PowerBond 115 gr RN: 1.169"
  • Rainier 115 gr RN: 1.169"
  • RMR 115 gr FMJ: 1.169"
  • RMR 115 gr FP MW: 1.155"
  • RMR 115 gr JHP Mini MPR: 1.140"
  • Speer 115 gr TMJ: 1.169"
  • Winchester 115 gr FMJ: 1.169"
  • X-Treme 115 gr RN: 1.169"
  • Zero 115 gr FMJ: 1.169"
  • Berry's 124 gr RN: 1.169"
  • Berry's 124 gr HBRN-TP: 1.169"
  • Hornady 125 gr HAP: 1.125"
  • HSM 124 gr RN: 1.169"
  • MBC 124 gr RN Hi-Tek (SmallBall): 1.110"
  • MBC 124 gr CN Hi-Tek (Cone 9): 1.169"
  • PowerBond 124 gr RN: 1.169"
  • Precision Delta 124 gr JHP: 1.155"
  • Rainier 124 gr RN: 1.169"
  • Remington 124 gr FMJ: 1.169"
  • RMR 124 gr FMJ: 1.169"
  • RMR 124 gr FP MW: 1.150"
  • RMR 124 gr JHP MPR: 1.115"
  • Speer 124 gr Gold Dot HP: 1.169"
  • Speer 124 gr TMJ: 1.169"
  • X-Treme 124 gr RN: 1.169"
  • RMR 135 gr FP MW: 1.130"
  • RMR 147 gr FMJ: 1.169"
  • RMR 147 gr FP MW: 1.135"
 
LiveLife said:
BTW max and working OAL that will reliably feed from magazine listed by firearm/barrel and bullet brands/weights - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ng-oal-col-for-reference.848462/post-12249361

Sample of one pistol/barrel:

Glock 22, KKM 40-9 conversion barrel, factory G17 magazine:
  • Montana Gold 95 gr JHP: 1.100"
  • RMR 95 gr FMJ: 1.150"
  • X-Treme 100 gr RNFP: 1.100"
  • Berry's 115 gr RN: 1.169"
  • Berry's 115 gr HBRN-TP: 1.169"
  • Hornady 115 gr HAP: 1.145"
  • HSM 115 gr RN: 1.169"
  • PowerBond 115 gr RN: 1.169"
  • Rainier 115 gr RN: 1.169"
  • RMR 115 gr FMJ: 1.169"
  • RMR 115 gr FP MW: 1.155"
  • RMR 115 gr JHP Mini MPR: 1.140"
  • Speer 115 gr TMJ: 1.169"
  • Winchester 115 gr FMJ: 1.169"
  • X-Treme 115 gr RN: 1.169"
  • Zero 115 gr FMJ: 1.169"
  • Berry's 124 gr RN: 1.169"
  • Berry's 124 gr HBRN-TP: 1.169"
  • Hornady 125 gr HAP: 1.125"
  • HSM 124 gr RN: 1.169"
  • MBC 124 gr RN Hi-Tek (SmallBall): 1.110"
  • MBC 124 gr CN Hi-Tek (Cone 9): 1.169"
  • PowerBond 124 gr RN: 1.169"
  • Precision Delta 124 gr JHP: 1.155"
  • Rainier 124 gr RN: 1.169"
  • Remington 124 gr FMJ: 1.169"
  • RMR 124 gr FMJ: 1.169"
  • RMR 124 gr FP MW: 1.150"
  • RMR 124 gr JHP MPR: 1.115"
  • Speer 124 gr Gold Dot HP: 1.169"
  • Speer 124 gr TMJ: 1.169"
  • X-Treme 124 gr RN: 1.169"
  • RMR 135 gr FP MW: 1.130"
  • RMR 147 gr FMJ: 1.169"
  • RMR 147 gr FP MW: 1.135"
Click to expand...
I remember seeing this--unfortunately didn't have anything I needed and some were far longer than published data.
 
Walkalong said:
Mine at 1.130 to 1.135 OAL never fail to feed. If a bullet can't feed unless it is exactly at 1.135, it's a bad bullet.
Most can feed on a lot bigger variance than that.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Especially in that range but also a broader one. But that's still my goal and at risk of jinxing myself, it's fail safe in all of these pictured magazines and associated pistols.

Took me quite a while to achieve this level of grab & go, any round/any mag reliability. And while I may monkey around with many things, reliability isn't one of them. I'm not saying you do, just saying I don't.

IMG_0081.jpeg
 
CQB45ACP said:
The ogive seating is simply a result of the way the die came, not anything I decided.
Click to expand...
I understand that. The seating die contacts “somewhere” below the tip. My point is, while you measured each bullets OAL, how do you know the seating die is contacting the ogive on the bullet at the same point from the bullet’s base? Even a comparative measurement with the seating stem would tell you the consistency.
I feel the need to waste more of your time.
 
lordpaxman said:
I understand that. The seating die contacts “somewhere” below the tip. My point is, while you measured each bullets OAL, how do you know the seating die is contacting the ogive on the bullet at the same point from the bullet’s base? Even a comparative measurement with the seating stem would tell you the consistency.
I feel the need to waste more of your time.
Click to expand...
Yes I did a couple that way but what a pain:) just too many parts to hold on to.

So instead I sorted bullets by length the theory being bullets of same length may be more likely to have ogive in same place. They absolutely seem more consistent except that one. Now wouldn't you know I have lost control of that one and thus cannot find and measure it with the stem. Maybe it was time to just let it go.
 
.021" in my opinion is a considerable variation. If the bullets don't vary by that much, I would look at my seater.

I don't have one, but my understanding is that the Redding seater die has an internal spring. If that's the case, could that spring be worn or possibly sticking, and not allowing the bullet to be seated all the way every now and then?

chris
 
ballman6711 said:
.021" in my opinion is a considerable variation. If the bullets don't vary by that much, I would look at my seater.

I don't have one, but my understanding is that the Redding seater die has an internal spring. If that's the case, could that spring be worn or possibly sticking, and not allowing the bullet to be seated all the way every now and then?

chris
Click to expand...
Don't put any stock in the chicken scratch I posted--in doing so I implied some validity. There is none. I can't even recall which brand bullets for certain. I just know holding the bullet and stem steady while using caliper wasn't easy. The bullet variation BTW is the .554-.558" also scratched on pad.

Theoretically I suppose you're correct on die but this one's doing all right and I've taken it apart numerous times in past few days. No sticking for certain.

Thanks for the input.
 
ballman6711 said:
Do you have a different die you can try? If you do and you get the same variation that would at least eliminate the die as the issue.

This would have my OCD going crazy. It's not even my issue and it bothers me, lol!

chris
Click to expand...
Yes and I did try it yesterday or probably day before. Must've been essentially same result because I know I didn't jump out of the bathtub yelling "eureka I've found it." Wasn't that Archimedes?
 
So, the press and the die (dies) are ok, must be the brass or bullets.

Sounds like the bullets to me. Keep them separated when loading. Maybe load by head stamp as well.

Another mystery solved Scooby! ;)

chris
 
ballman6711 said:
So, the press and the die (dies) are ok, must be the brass or bullets.

Sounds like the bullets to me. Keep them separated when loading. Maybe load by head stamp as well.

Another mystery solved Scooby! ;)

chris
Click to expand...
Now you must've had a memory lapse...you should know by now I only load Winchester cases and the same ones at that:)

It's the bullets and one brand in particular is prominently featured. But overall it's the first time I've checked like this and have never experienced a problem shooting. That's why I'm not concerned.
 
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