Concealed Carry in Bear Country? 357 Mag, 41 Mag, or 45 ACP + P

Concealed Carry in Bear Country 357 Mag, 41 Mag, or 45 ACP +P

  • S&W 686+ 357 mag

    Votes: 46 44.2%

  • Taurus 415 41 mag

    Votes: 41 39.4%

  • Springfield XDM compact 45 acp+p

    Votes: 18 17.3%
  • Total voters
    104
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WisBorn

WisBorn

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I the past I have concealed carried my 41 mag while hiking in bear country. Maybe it's time to rethink that? I will be hiking the Smoky Mountains in the up coming weeks and planning a trip to Yellowstone.

Should I change my carry gun. My biggest threat is 2 legged and will pocket carry my 442. I normal have my 41 in my waist pocket of my pack.

The three guns that I have that I could carry are:
S&W 686+ 3" 357mag (7 shot)
Taurus 415 2 1/2" 41mag (5 shot)
Springfield XDM compact 3.8" 45acp +P (9 +1 magazine)

Is capacity more important than energy? All of the guns would be loaded with heavy for caliber bullets - hard cast or xtreme penetrators.
Looking forward to your comments!
 
WisBorn said:
I the past I have concealed carried my 41 mag while hiking in bear country. Maybe it's time to rethink that? I will be hiking the Smoky Mountains in the up coming weeks and planning a trip to Yellowstone.

Should I change my carry gun. My biggest threat is 2 legged and will pocket carry my 442. I normal have my 41 in my waist pocket of my pack.

The three guns that I have that I could carry are:
S&W 686+ 3" 357mag (7 shot)
Taurus 415 2 1/2" 41mag (5 shot)
Springfield XDM compact 3.8" 45acp +P (9 +1 magazine)

Is capacity more important than energy? All of the guns would be loaded with heavy for caliber bullets - hard cast or xtreme penetrators.
Looking forward to your comments!
Click to expand...
I'd like a 140 gr Barnes cookin outta the 7 shot, as you say, 2 leggers are more plausible, but even for larger issues that load would be nothing to be snickered at, any similar load would be acceptable, I can get back on target quickest with that 686+.
 
460Shooter said:
41 mag hands down. Have you ever been too close to a grizzly? It wakes you up. Mine was a 300-400 lb juvenile. Could’ve killed me easy. 41 mag
Click to expand...

When I see these threads I always need to see where the OP lives. The OP has listed South Carolina, so presumably we're talking CCW in SC. Virtually all the Grizzlies in the continental US are in MT and WY with smaller ranges in ID and WA. Probably the OP is talking about a firearm for black bears. While black bears can get pretty big they're generally much smaller than Grizzly Bears, and generally are less aggressive. IIRC the biggest black bear ever shot was a tad over 900 lbs dressed out which is incredible! Most of the time they don't get to be half that size. The average black bear a person will run across will not be much over a couple hundred pounds (again depending on where you are), and in that case pretty much whatever you'd use for defense against humans will work against bears. Personally I'd be okay with any of the guns listed above. The 7 shot .347 would maybe be my first choice loaded with hard cast, followed by the .41 Mag (partly because I'd trust a 7 round S&W more than a 5 shot Taurus), then the .45 ACP. If we're talking a full sized Glock in .45 ACP or a USP45 Tactical, maybe it would move up the list a bit.

The .41 Mag is a great round, and underrated nowadays. I only rank it lower than the .357 Mag in this case because of the guns listed.

Summary- any of the listed guns would be fine. Pick heavy ammo, either hard cast or extreme penetrator, and any would work.
 
George P said:
I was not aware that the Smokies had grizzlies; I thought only black bears - and that was the only place i have - to date - seen a bear in the wild
Click to expand...
They have black bears and have had bears attack humans and fatalities in the Smokies.
I also plan on hiking Yellowstone and have seen Grizzlies there in the past.
 
The question I have is why conceal if you’re in the back country carrying for bears?

You might also want to read up on Yellowstone’s gun polices. It will get somewhat complicated if you draw down on a bear. Even in self defense.
 
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460Shooter said:
41 mag hands down.
Click to expand...

This! Find a heavy load (250grns+ bullet) and go from there.
Frulk said:
The question I have is why conceal if you’re in the back country carrying for bears?

You might also want to read up on Yellowstone’s gun polices. It will get somewhat complicated if you draw down on a bear. Even in self defense.
Click to expand...

Not nearly as "complicated" as needing one in a SD situation and not having one.
If concealed, I doubt the good folk at Yellowstone would bat an eye.
 
Well, if you're talking about Blackies in the Smokies, any of them should work. I voted for the XDM because the higher capacity will come in handy if you meet trouble in other situations, with humans for example.

If you're talking about Grizzlies in the Rockies then be glad our forefathers guaranteed your right to arm bears (shave off the front sight as the saying goes) ...

I would carry a 629 (at a minimum). If there was a prohibition to my defending myself or my family I would seriously reconsider hiking there:

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Frulk said:
The question I have is why conceal if you’re in the back country carrying for bears?

You might also want to read up on Yellowstone’s gun polices. It will get somewhat complicated if you draw down on a bear. Even in self defense.
Click to expand...

CCW is fine within the park at Yellowstone. From the Park's website:

Can you conceal carry in Yellowstone National Park?
Yes, guns are permitted in Yellowstone National Park
Park visitors are able to openly carry legal handguns, rifles, shotguns and other firearms per a federal law approved by Congress and signed by President Barack Obama in February 2010. Concealed weapons are allowed by state statute.

Bears are protected under the ESA. Self defense is a legitimate defense; as any defensive firearms use against people or animal you will have to legal defend your actions. I would rather face a fine or jail time if it came to that than be killed by a bear! Use good judgement when using a firearm. I live in Montana and we have a pretty high percentage of all Grizzly attacks in the CONUS within a hundred miles of my door.


WisBorn said:
They have black bears and have had bears attack humans and fatalities in the Smokies.
I also plan on hiking Yellowstone and have seen Grizzlies there in the past.
Click to expand...

IMOHO that changes the calculus a bit. The .41 Mag is at the lower limit for big bears (the .44 Mag is generally held up as the smallest practical wheelgun round by guides in MT and AK). Of course before the .44 Mag was invented lots of gun writers considered the .357 Mag to be suitable for big bear defense. Carry bear spray in your left hand, already unholstered and with the safety key removed. Carry your handgun in a rig that's easily accessible and that you can draw with one hand.

In AK a lot (most maybe) of the guides have switched to 10mm. It's marginal being around .357 level but relatively controllable and can offer a good volume of fire. The doctrine seems to be shifting to 15 rounds of 10mm vs 6 rounds of .44 Mag or 5 rounds of 454 Casull/.460 S&W. I dunno, that's above my pay grade! I'm not a guide and my activities take me almost daily into Grizzy country but I'm not in proximity to them as much as a guide in AK.
 
If Wiseborn is on a boardwalk around any of the popular attractions I can see why he'd rather carry concealed. I would too. Hundreds (if not thousands) of Japanese/German/Californian tourists standing around are really going to be put off by someone strolling around while open carrying.

To add more clarity to Yellowstone's policy on guns: you're allowed to bring a firearm into the park but not discharge it. If a bear is shot the shooter better have an empty or half used canister of bear spray close by. And preferably a couple of chew marks on an extremity. The park authorities 'might' look at that in a favorable light vs NO canister and gun used as the FIRST and only option in a self-defense situation. Guaranteed they won't if there's a wounded Grizzly free ranging after the encounter. The Park Administration/Rangers do not want people showing up with guns thinking that bear defense is an acceptable premise to use one before spray etc.. Its a NATIONAL park and the fines will be steep.

I've concealed carried every time I've ever gone through Yellowstone. I'm only 4 hours away and have been there many times. In fact, I might be riding on Beartooth Pass Sunday/Monday. I've backpacked just outside the park along its southern border and open carried both a handgun and bear spray there. Saw a lot of signs but never a bear.

I'd carry the .41 mag out of the given options.
 
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Any of those cartridges with the bullets you describe would make me comfortable in black bear country....If you could load them into guns that have longer barrels.

You say .357 mag from a 3" barrel.
.41 mag from a 2.5" barrel.
.45acp +p from a 3.8" barrel.

The .45acp would be more choice, because the other two are pretty useless for the application, IMO.
 
I've hiked a good deal in Yellowstone and never felt 2 legged was a concern. Had a Yellowstone hike where i came up a rise and looked up the trail and something did just not look quite right so i stopped to give it a better look. Sure enough there were two bison laying down, one on each side of the trail with a matter of feet in between them. There was no way to go through them without completely invading their space so in essence they were completing blocking the trail. There was a steep rock wall on one side and a creek with another steep rock wall on the other. It was a 10 mile loop hike that i was pretty far along and there really wasn't any going back unless i wanted to hike in the dark. I un-holstered my 45 auto and told my girl friend to stay close as I gave a little shout out from a moderate distance, they jumped to their feet very fast as it startled them. They were standing on both sides of the trail, no way to go through as they were just standing there staring at me. Tried for about 15 min to get them to move but wasn't happening. The one rock wall side had about 15 yrds of clearance between the trail and the wall. We cautiously moved off the trail and up against the rock wall around them. The bison never budged but kept their eyes glued on us. Another time i was hiking down a trail in Yellowstone with my son and off to side of the trail maybe 25 yds turns out was a bison that must have been laying down in the timber. We startled it and let me tell you the sound they make when they decide to go crashing thorough the brush will stand you hair on end, especially when you cant see it and aren't expecting it. Guess my point is Yellowstone is an awesome wilderness and there are other critters out there besides bears so be aware when you venture away from Old Faithful tourist area.
 
Frulk said:
If Wiseborn is on a boardwalk around any of the popular attractions I can see why he'd rather carry concealed. I would too. Hundreds (if not thousands) of Japanese/German/Californian tourists standing around are really going to be put off by someone strolling around while open carrying.

To add more clarity to Yellowstone's policy on guns: you're allowed to bring a firearm into the park but not discharge it. If a bear is shot the shooter better have an empty or half used canister of bear spray close by. And preferably a couple of chew marks on an extremity. The park authorities 'might' look at that in a favorable light vs NO canister and gun used as the FIRST and only option in a self-defense situation. Guaranteed they won't if there's a wounded Grizzly free ranging after the encounter. The Park Administration/Rangers do not want people showing up with guns thinking that bear defense is an acceptable premise to use one before spray etc.. Its a NATIONAL park and the fines will be steep.

I've concealed carried every time I've ever gone through Yellowstone. I'm only 4 hours away and have been there many times. In fact, I might be riding on Beartooth Pass Sunday/Monday. I've backpacked just outside the park along its southern border and carried both a handgun and bear spray. Saw a lot of signs but never a bear.

I'd carry the .41 mag out of the given options.
Click to expand...

I dunno what it is about Asian tourists really are drawn to Jellystone! It's a beautiful park so I don't blame them but you won't catch me anywhere's near the main gate this time of year. I'd stick to West Yellowstone and come in from the NW. Beartooth Pass towards Red Lodge is nice. I will be heading a bit further west this weekend/through next week. Heading over to the Selway-Bitterroot/Clearwater area for a backpacking trip. I'll be packing a 9mm in a chest rig and toting a Mossberg 500 loaded with Brenekke Green Lightning slugs. My buddy will have his Freedom Arms .454 with him, he's taken Bison and good sized bears with it and is very capable. Worst case he tweaked his knee a couple weeks ago so I can outrun him if necessary.:rofl:

I personally trust myself to know when I have to shoot. If anything I'm probably more reluctant to do so than folks that don't spend much time outdoors. You're 100% right that there's risks if you shoot and kill the bear and there's risks if you don't and you get mauled. But that's not unique to Grizzlies or Jellystone, and applies equally to CCW in your daily life. You pays your money and you takes your chances.


typhun said:
I've hiked a good deal in Yellowstone and never felt 2 legged was a concern. Had a Yellowstone hike where i came up a rise and looked up the trail and something did just not look quite right so i stopped to give it a better look. Sure enough there were two bison laying down, one on each side of the trail with a matter of feet in between them. There was no way to go through them without completely invading their space so in essence they were completing blocking the trail. There was a steep rock wall on one side and a creek with another steep rock wall on the other. It was a 10 mile loop hike that i was pretty far along and there really wasn't any going back unless i wanted to hike in the dark. I un-holstered my 45 auto and told my girl friend to stay close as I gave a little shout out from a moderate distance, they jumped to their feet very fast as it startled them. They were standing on both sides of the trail, no way to go through as they were just standing there staring at me. Tried for about 15 min to get them to move but wasn't happening. The one rock wall side had about 15 yrds of clearance between the trail and the wall. We cautiously moved off the trail and up against the rock wall around them. The bison never budged but kept their eyes glued on us. Another time i was hiking down a trail in Yellowstone with my son and off to side of the trail maybe 25 yds turns out was a bison that must have been laying down in the timber. We startled it and let me tell you the sound they make when they decide to go crashing thorough the brush will stand you hair on end, especially when you cant see it and aren't expecting it. Guess my point is Yellowstone is an awesome wilderness and there are other critters out there besides bears so be aware when you venture away from Old Faithful tourist area.
Click to expand...

Maybe a little scary at the time but a wonderful thing to look back on! Jellystone is a wonder.:thumbup:
 
WrongHanded said:
Any of those cartridges with the bullets you describe would make me comfortable in black bear country....If you could load them into guns that have longer barrels.

You say .357 mag from a 3" barrel.
.41 mag from a 2.5" barrel.
.45acp +p from a 3.8" barrel.

The .45acp would be more choice, because the other two are pretty useless for the application, IMO.
Click to expand...
I like the way you think, if the .41 was in my 4 5/8 barrel, it would be my first choice. However the 2.5 narrows it down to .45vs .357. I've shot regular .45s and I'll take the hot .357 nasty loads any day, if I get a chance to hot rod a .45 a lil bit, it may change my mind, but with all the potential trade offs, I'm not sure there's a wrong answer without knowing exactly which one is THE favorite of the op.
 
Black bears? Any of them would be fine, I'd be inclined to go with the .45 with 255 grain hardcast +p's. Underwood makes some good ones.

Yellowstone and possible browns? I'd go .41 mag or better if possible.

460Shooter said:
41 mag hands down. Have you ever been too close to a grizzly? It wakes you up. Mine was a 300-400 lb juvenile. Could’ve killed me easy. 41 mag
Click to expand...

Had a 900+ lb Alaskan Coastal Brown come in behind me once while in a tree stand. He smelled me and started pushing over trees (I think that's why he was knocking down trees) before running off. They weren't tiny trees, talk about pucker factor. I had seen him on the trail cam and knew who it was, monster.

Ya start looking over your loadout and start wondering if the 4 .300 win mag plus 6 .44 mags would be enough. Clearly, yes, but in the moment you sure do wonder.
 
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Frulk said:
The question I have is why conceal if you’re in the back country carrying for bears?

You might also want to read up on Yellowstone’s gun polices. It will get somewhat complicated if you draw down on a bear. Even in self defense.
Click to expand...
I don't disagree about open carry. I prefer concealed carry. As mentioned people are the first and largest threat. Many of the trails in the National Parks will have areas where you meet people, than nobody for long periods of time.
 
WisBorn

When my brother use to work in Alaska he always took along a Ruger Redhawk (with a 5 1/2" barrel), in .44 Magnum whenever he ventured outside of civilization. Carried it in an old British WWII canvas holster designed for a large frame Webley revolver, along with two speedloaders; you know...just in case!

Given your choices I would opt for the .41 Magnum revolver.
 
Mentioned this before but I went on house boat fishing trip to Rainy Lake, MN last year. Picked up a Ruger Redhawk in 45 Colt but wasn't able to find any heavy loads locally and didn't have enough time to order some before the trip.

I did find HSM 357 magnum Bear Loads and brought my 3inch Ruger Security Six along loaded with those to use as a primary. I also had my Glock 19 with me and AR15. The parking area near the house boat was a little too public so I left my AR15 in my vehicle.

No bears were spotted on the island we parked the house boat on.
Fun was had by all.


Note this happened a couple weeks before our trip:
https://www.duluthnewstribune.com/n...illed-by-bear-on-Rainy-Lake-island-identified
 
Actually, I'm with Phaedrus... I'd pick the .41 except I don't really care for Taurus pistols (for quality reasons.) In any event, you have a tough choice... you are likely to have problems with 2-legged animals before you have problems with 4-legged ones... I'd carry the .45 for that. But weighing the scale towards the bears, I'd still pick the .41. In fact, I just loaded up 50 240grn WFN gas-checked bullets over 2400 and IMR4227 tonight. As far as 'heavy for caliber' bullets, I think the 240grn .41 is a pretty good match. I'd be happy with my 4" Smith 57 or 58 strapped up in that respect.
 
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