Concealed Carry Overkill?

[Lawdawg45]

Well, because one is not represented by counsel before a Grand Jury in any jurisdiction of which I am aware.

And that appears to be the case in Indiana, also, as indicated here.

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Yes, indeed.

Actually, the subject comes up quite frequently.

This is posted among the stickies in ST&T.

So is this.

We often refer members to this.

This, published by one of our esteemed members, is on our recommended reading list. Book mark it and study it.

With all due respect, my basic and advanced training from the Indiana law Enforcement Academy didn't include this reading, nor did my years of continuing education from our State AG or County Prosecutor, nor did my department consult this study for it's Force Continuum formation or Firearms review proceedings, I feel well served and informed from my training and experience as a LEO for 30+ years. With that said, I will exit this discussion and wish everyone a safe journey.

LD

 

[fastest45ever]

While this is a gun forum:
In cases like this an alternative method would have been wise. Pepper spray, taser, anything that is non-lethal.

I go back to in my state, in my situation, there better be a firearm present, and it better be pointed at me.

It will be fun to see what the guys presence, history, etc. really was, and if the invader was just that. Anything on his criminal history? Theft, etc.?
Family history?

 

[fastest45ever]

This link in particular illustrates the danger of trying to draw conclusions for general situations from specific studies and evidence.

http://www.thejuryexpert.com/2009/0...s-and-the-fears-of-the-legally-armed-citizen/

This reminds me of the worst in Sociology.
Examine their test methods, the cross section of people involved in their 'tests',
and draw your conclusions as to how their general statements might be relevant to your state, country, county or area.

The part I find odd is they did not take the time to evaluate ACTUAL gun cases involving the guns in question. Also their small sampling of college students makes their testing valid for that small college town.

 

[Lawdawg45]

While this is a gun forum:
In cases like this an alternative method would have been wise. Pepper spray, taser, anything that is non-lethal.

I go back to in my state, in my situation, there better be a firearm present, and it better be pointed at me.

It will be fun to see what the guys presence, history, etc. really was, and if the invader was just that. Anything on his criminal history? Theft, etc.?
Family history?

Also discussed in the trial, but the homeowner claimed he either didn't have possession of, or access to. The suspect did have a fairly lengthy juvenile record which was esponged at trial.

Stay safe!..............LD

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by Lawdawg45: With all due respect, my basic and advanced training from the Indiana law Enforcement Academy didn't include this reading, nor did my years of continuing....

It is likely that not very many people have read it. I mention it because it substantiates your thought that certain things can prove disadvantageous after the fact of a shooting incident.

Dr. Glenn E. Meyer conducted a number of jury simulation experiments to determine whether and how the type of weapon used in a home defense shooting might among other things, influence the minds of jurors.

It's not exactly what you mentioned--you mentioned a person carrying two firearms at home, who also happened to own an AR--but it's along the same line.

The thought does have relevance to the question posed by the OP, which referred to "guys carrying two, three, or even four hi cap spare magazines." One thing for sworn officers and people in competition, but perhaps another for concealed carry.

 

[fastest45ever]

While it addresses the same sort of issues, the sampling for the mock jury pool
makes the results valid for one particular area, perhaps.

Expunged? I gather the guy that broke and entered had a long juvenile record, but it was not allowed to be admitted into evidence?

Prior bad acts are generally inadmissible in a criminal proceeding.
Good news is in a civil trial they generally are not.

This thread does bring up an excellent point:
Try and balance the carry weapons and ammunition to the possible threat, yet not exceed a certain level for fear of jury perception during trial.

There does seem to be a fairly consistent point to be made here:
Make sure that if you shoot the other guy has something that is going to justify that shooting to 12 jurors, in a nice comfy jury box, Monday morning quarterbacking, in perhaps as safe a place as is possible to be in these days: a court house.

Using a gun should always be a last resort, life and death situation, in my opinion.

 

[Lawdawg45]

While it addresses the same sort of issues, the sampling for the mock jury pool
makes the results valid for one particular area, perhaps.

Expunged? I gather the guy that broke and entered had a long juvenile record, but it was not allowed to be admitted into evidence?

Prior bad acts are generally inadmissible in a criminal proceeding.
Good news is in a civil trial they generally are not.

This thread does bring up an excellent point:
Try and balance the carry weapons and ammunition to the possible threat, yet not exceed a certain level for fear of jury perception during trial.

There does seem to be a fairly consistent point to be made here:
Make sure that if you shoot the other guy has something that is going to justify that shooting to 12 jurors, in a nice comfy jury box, Monday morning quarterbacking, in perhaps as safe a place as is possible to be in these days: a court house.

Using a gun should always be a last resort, life and death situation, in my opinion.

Yes, sorry my auto correct stepped in and my spell check missed it. In our state a juvenile record is sealed unless the person commits a crime as an adult, then it can be introduced in evidence and even used as a sentence modifier. This suspect did have one, but nothing of a violent nature such as battery or resisting law enforcement.

LD

 

[marcclarke]

I’m fairly new to the concealed carry world and have recently settled on a Glock 26 (standard 10 round mag) as my carry weapon. Very comfortable, easy to conceal, and easy to shoot. Anyway, I felt pretty well armed and protected with this until I started reading a lot of posts online regarding concealed carry. I constantly read about back up guns (BUGs I guess they’re called), guys carrying two, three, or even four hi cap spare magazines, etc and I can’t help but wonder, where these guys are going that they’re going to need that much firepower? Am I just naïve feeling safe with my "baby Glock" or should I start arming up?

I think you will find that most of the guys who carry multiple magazines are former cops who are on the drug cartels' and gangs' death lists. They have good reason to expect to be in a gunfight with multiple, heavily-armed assailants.

 

[powder]

You have made some Hollywood/TV assumptions.

a. We in LE today are trained to run TO the gunfire, on duty or off-duty: call it in and literally run to the gunfire. NOT sit in the car and wait for assistance. No, not all cops are going to do this, but I will be running and scanning.

b. I carry 1+3 mags for my service pistol, and a BUG. I'm used to it and I like it. It's actually a serious weight diet when off-duty, but I was not inferring that citizens need less ammo. than LEOs: you can certainly carry as much as you want to.

In the 3 minutes it takes for aid/backup to arrive, one gunmen can get off 100s of rounds and kill as many. Not on my watch, in my earshot.

1) The idea that he isn't LEO and therefore doesn't need as much firepower seems ludicrous to me. LEO have backup, your average civilian doesn't. Even if the LEO is patrolling by himself, he will have quicker access to backup (radios already on police frequency) than a citizen who calls 911.

 

[fastest45ever]

A very common disability claim is back problems from all the stuff officers have to lug around, on their belt in particular.

Just another factor to add into your CCW balancing act.

 

[KenW.]

As a plain-clothes detective, I keep it light. Pistol, one spare mag, cuffs, two cell phones, 4" folding knife, pen and notebook.

I've found "Dickies"-brand cargo pants dressy enough to wear with a tie. Then you can fill the cargo pockets with all you possibles.

 

[HelterSkelter]

i feel perfectly fine carrying just a keltec p3at. if 6 shots isn't enough to save my life and i can't outrun whatever is chasing me, then i must have done something real bad

 

[RBid]

Ruger SR9c, plus a single spare magazine. The spare is to cover malfunction. I have recently started carrying a second 10 round mag as the spare, instead of a 17.

I do also carry a knife at all times. I have a beater for work, and a SOG Trident Tanto for days off. Why? Because my grandfather always had one, so I started carrying one as a kid. I use my beater more than 20 times per day, easy... just not as a weapon.