I personally have no problem with a 1911A1 in Condition 1. But I see lots of people here who are nervous about it. So... Everyone please post the number of times that you have seen a Goverment model, in working condition, in condition 1 that has gone off while someone was carrying it. Seriously, I hear lots of talk but have never seen one fail.
Condition 1 mishaps?
- Thread starter Ed
- Start date
- Status
Black Snowman
Member
I see lots of Government Model guns at the range and have never heard or seen a 1st hand account of ADs or NDs as a result of a Cond 1 gun of any brand but there isn't any CCW in my neck of the woods so may not be indicative. Just giving you what I've seen.
Compedative matchs are about the only place where I've even seen Cond 1 and everone there is pretty safe in their gun handling.
I have seen a ND with a revolver but it was WAY back by someone who was screwing around. Full grown adult no less. It's so far back my memory of the event is pretty sketchy and I don't trust myself relating specifics. Some people didn't get taught as well as others.
Compedative matchs are about the only place where I've even seen Cond 1 and everone there is pretty safe in their gun handling.
I have seen a ND with a revolver but it was WAY back by someone who was screwing around. Full grown adult no less. It's so far back my memory of the event is pretty sketchy and I don't trust myself relating specifics. Some people didn't get taught as well as others.
SAWBONES
Member
Geesh, this is one of the perennial topics on gun BBs!
As to ND/AD related to Condition One, I've never seen it happen personally, nor have I ever heard of it yet.
Doubtless it's happened sometime, somewhere, to somebody, as is possible with any mode of carry, with any pistol, but more folks seem to be afraid of Condition One carry than is reasonable.
Condition One is the only properly-ready plus practical plus safe way to carry the 1911.
Every other condition (zero, two, three) sacrifices either readiness or safety or both.
As to ND/AD related to Condition One, I've never seen it happen personally, nor have I ever heard of it yet.
Doubtless it's happened sometime, somewhere, to somebody, as is possible with any mode of carry, with any pistol, but more folks seem to be afraid of Condition One carry than is reasonable.
Condition One is the only properly-ready plus practical plus safe way to carry the 1911.
Every other condition (zero, two, three) sacrifices either readiness or safety or both.
BerettaNut92
Member
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2002
- Messages
- 9,723
I think Condition One mishaps happen when they THINK they're in Condition 1 but are really in Condition Zero. Like reholstering a cocked and unlocked 1911 
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Thread
Howdy Ed. Refer to this thread for a test that I conducted a while back to
determine what would happen in the event of a complete sear failure during cocked and locked carry.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50137
Keep safe!
Tuner
Howdy Ed. Refer to this thread for a test that I conducted a while back to
determine what would happen in the event of a complete sear failure during cocked and locked carry.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50137
Keep safe!
Tuner
Let me reiterate, I think there is nothing wrong with Condition 1 It how it should be done.. I just keep seeing post about how it isn't safe. So I wanted to give all the people who say it's not safe a chance to tell of their first hand experiences where there was a mishap. Because we all know that noone would base their belief off rumors or secondhand..
Sean Smith
Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2002
- Messages
- 4,925
You don't hear about condition 1 mishaps because the folks boo-hooing condition 1 carry have no evidence to back 'em up.
Edward429451
member
You want to hear a condition 1 mishap?
OK, I've been carrying con 1 for close to 20 years. Two times, count em, TWO times I have checked to find my safety had been inadvertantly disengaged while going about my business doing normal activities. I reengaged the safety and uh, continued going about my business.
Thats it.
Edited to add I don't think it was the guns fault.
OK, I've been carrying con 1 for close to 20 years. Two times, count em, TWO times I have checked to find my safety had been inadvertantly disengaged while going about my business doing normal activities. I reengaged the safety and uh, continued going about my business.
Thats it.
Edited to add I don't think it was the guns fault.
Mute
Member
Nope. Never witnessed one myself. I did see a friend let the hammer slip while lowering it to put the gun in condition 2. Fortunately it was at the range with the gun pointed in a safe direction.
BerettaNut92
Member
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2002
- Messages
- 9,723
Almost seen one from a guy who reholstered a cocked and unlocked 1911 at a carbine class. The guy was a total space cadet. He was in the process of reholstering his Condtn 0 1911 when he was spinning around and almost got tackled by about 5 or 6 of us.
sm
member
Nope, never seen or even heard from reputable source either.
I have been witness to two persons shooting themselves. One was a SA lr revolver, the other a Colt Python...both had Finger in trigger guards trying to do quick-draw. 4 Rules not being observed is more dangerous than a 1911 C&L.
I have been witness to two persons shooting themselves. One was a SA lr revolver, the other a Colt Python...both had Finger in trigger guards trying to do quick-draw. 4 Rules not being observed is more dangerous than a 1911 C&L.
cidirkona
Member
After seeing plenty of videos this past weekend, I will be carrying con 1 all the time now. There is not enough time to do little things like pull back the hammer and such... although I'd be hard pressed to use a kydex or similiar holster that doesn't have a protective peice around the saftey... I'll stick with my thumb latch bianchi for now...
-Colin
-Colin
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
One Mishap
I've seen one such event. The sear failed, the pistol fired once, the hammer rode the slide down and stopped. Luckily, it happened while the
guy was on the firing line...about 3 rounds into the magazine. I took the
pistol apart, and the half-cock was gone! As in removed with a file. I
asked him why. He said that after his kitchen-table trigger job, that
he wanted to lighten the hammer to prevent follow...
Lesson learned, I hope.
Be safe!
Tuner
I've seen one such event. The sear failed, the pistol fired once, the hammer rode the slide down and stopped. Luckily, it happened while the
guy was on the firing line...about 3 rounds into the magazine. I took the
pistol apart, and the half-cock was gone! As in removed with a file. I
asked him why. He said that after his kitchen-table trigger job, that
he wanted to lighten the hammer to prevent follow...
Lesson learned, I hope.
Be safe!
Tuner
Daniel T
Member
Tuner, thanks for posting that link to the other thread. You, sir, are a veritable font of knowledge and experience. I think I've probably learned more about the 1911 just from reading your posts than I have from using one for last 10 years.
Daniel
Daniel
DMK
Member
Anybody, anybody? Beuler, Beuler?
Cthulhu
Member
that doesn't mean its safe idea....
That would be like saying, I drive my motorcycle without a helmet and have for a long time....
but we've had this discussion before, haven't we?
James Bondrock
Member
Can't say I have ever heard of a 1911 in proper working order ever accidentally discharging itself while simply being carried. When actually handling or firing the gun, there are plenty of opportunities to discharge it unintentionally/accidentally. Even if the sear or hammer hooks broke -- a highly unlikely chain of events in itself -- on a pre Series 80 gun, the hammer should be caught by the half-cock notch, and on a Series 80 the firing pin block should prevent a discharge because the trigger has not been pulled. Now, if some joker has modified either of these, all bets are off.
Last edited:
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Series 80
I'm also one of the guys who likes the Series 80 system, mainly for
peace of mind during Con-One carry...but after a lot of testing and
trying to create "what if" scenarios, I've come to the conclusion that
the 1911 is no more...and no less safe than it is without it.
In order for the pistol to discharge hands-off, the sear and or hammer hooks and the half-cock notch would all have to break at the same
instant, and even then, I'd be willing to bet that the thumb safety
would slow the hammer enough to prevent a discharge...assuming
that the plunger and spring, and the firing pin spring were in good order.
There are three safety devices in place. The thumb safety blocks the
sear...The grip safety blocks the trigger, and the half-cock backs them up
and makes pulling the trigger necessary to fire the pistol, with or without
the Series 80 system.
I've never had a Series 80 system fail to perform, and only seen one
that had a problem. This was due to crud in the plunger hole that
interfered with free movement of the plunger and firing pin. Quickly
resolved with a teardown and a can of Gunk Carb Medic. The
guy had fried about 25,000 rounds of amo that had been handloaded with
cast bullets. Nasty stuff.
The drawbacks of the Series 80 system is that it's an unnecessary
complication in the gun, and hence, subject to problems associated
with gadgetry, even though the chances are slight. The other one is
ease of maintenance in the field in that it takes longer to detail strip
the gun for cleaning and the chance of a small part loss. My advice is
to spend 4 bucks for the frame shim just in case. I have one with
each operational Series 80 pistol that I own in a hollowed-out
area of the grip. Cheap insurance.
Cheers all!
Tuner
I'm also one of the guys who likes the Series 80 system, mainly for
peace of mind during Con-One carry...but after a lot of testing and
trying to create "what if" scenarios, I've come to the conclusion that
the 1911 is no more...and no less safe than it is without it.
In order for the pistol to discharge hands-off, the sear and or hammer hooks and the half-cock notch would all have to break at the same
instant, and even then, I'd be willing to bet that the thumb safety
would slow the hammer enough to prevent a discharge...assuming
that the plunger and spring, and the firing pin spring were in good order.
There are three safety devices in place. The thumb safety blocks the
sear...The grip safety blocks the trigger, and the half-cock backs them up
and makes pulling the trigger necessary to fire the pistol, with or without
the Series 80 system.
I've never had a Series 80 system fail to perform, and only seen one
that had a problem. This was due to crud in the plunger hole that
interfered with free movement of the plunger and firing pin. Quickly
resolved with a teardown and a can of Gunk Carb Medic. The
guy had fried about 25,000 rounds of amo that had been handloaded with
cast bullets. Nasty stuff.
The drawbacks of the Series 80 system is that it's an unnecessary
complication in the gun, and hence, subject to problems associated
with gadgetry, even though the chances are slight. The other one is
ease of maintenance in the field in that it takes longer to detail strip
the gun for cleaning and the chance of a small part loss. My advice is
to spend 4 bucks for the frame shim just in case. I have one with
each operational Series 80 pistol that I own in a hollowed-out
area of the grip. Cheap insurance.
Cheers all!
Tuner
BluesBear
member
I prefer the Series 80 system because when I carry my Colt it is in Condition 1.
But when it is not on my person it is in Condition 2. A Series 80 in Condition 2 is inert. You can drop it, throw it, do whatever and it won't fire.
I owned and carried Colts for about 20 years before I ever owned a Series 80. I never had a problem with the old system. I owned both types until 2001 and I once again have a nice used pre-80 on layway at a local shop right now.
I don't know of any operable firearm that is any safer than a properly maintained 1911 system.
There are certain things that you have to do to cause it to fire. If you don't do any of those things it won't fire. It's just as simple as that.
But when it is not on my person it is in Condition 2. A Series 80 in Condition 2 is inert. You can drop it, throw it, do whatever and it won't fire.
I owned and carried Colts for about 20 years before I ever owned a Series 80. I never had a problem with the old system. I owned both types until 2001 and I once again have a nice used pre-80 on layway at a local shop right now.
I don't know of any operable firearm that is any safer than a properly maintained 1911 system.
There are certain things that you have to do to cause it to fire. If you don't do any of those things it won't fire. It's just as simple as that.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Yep
BluesBear said a mouthful there. Bottom line is that the 1911...or any
other firearm...is no safer than we are. Condition one or Condition 3.
Series 80, or no...The real safety is between our ears.
When a Russian policeman was at the FBI Academy in Quantico during
an exchange program, demonstrating gun-handling techinques learned
at his agency, a rookie agent piped in:
"Excuse me...but that just didn't seem safe."
The Russian looked incredulous, and replied:
"Sir...It eez NOT safe! It eez a GON!"
Cheers!
Tuner
BluesBear said a mouthful there. Bottom line is that the 1911...or any
other firearm...is no safer than we are. Condition one or Condition 3.
Series 80, or no...The real safety is between our ears.
When a Russian policeman was at the FBI Academy in Quantico during
an exchange program, demonstrating gun-handling techinques learned
at his agency, a rookie agent piped in:
"Excuse me...but that just didn't seem safe."
The Russian looked incredulous, and replied:
"Sir...It eez NOT safe! It eez a GON!"
Cheers!
Tuner
BluesBear
member
One of Jeff Cooper's stories;
There is the anecdote of the Texas Ranger observed carrying his pistol Condition One in his holster.
He was approached by a young bystander and was told that his pistol was cocked.
His answer was, “Yes, Sonny, I know.
Upon which his questioner asked, But ain’t that dangerous?â€
The Ranger’s legendary answer was, “You damn betchya!â€
There is the anecdote of the Texas Ranger observed carrying his pistol Condition One in his holster.
He was approached by a young bystander and was told that his pistol was cocked.
His answer was, “Yes, Sonny, I know.
Upon which his questioner asked, But ain’t that dangerous?â€
The Ranger’s legendary answer was, “You damn betchya!â€
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
