Connecticut to Ban Gun Sales to Those on Federal Terrorism Lists

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Yes, ban gun sales to people on the no fly list. It's a no-brainer.
I couldn't have said it better myself. It's UTTERLY brainless... not to mention unconstitutional and evil.

If you are on the list you should be instantly denied. If a further background check clears you, then go ahead and make the purchase.
  1. How do you get on the no fly list?
  2. How do you get off of the no fly list?
You don't know, DO you?

If you can lose your 2nd Amendment rights on a whim, why not others?
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Why not just give Obama the right to designate "socially harmful elements" like Stalin and send them away to "corrective labor" camps?
 
they are on a SUSPECTED terror watch list......SUSPECTED being the key word.

they have not been proven guilty of anything and are being denied of constitutionally protected rights without Due-Process...

It's actually worse than that.

Not only have they not been proven guilty, they have not even been CHARGED with anything. In other words, there is no probable cause to charge them.

Someone just THINKS that at some point in the future this person could be or do something dangerous.

Who gets to make that judgement?

Who would you TRUST to make that judgement?

The same people who, with derision, accuse us of "clinging to our guns and religion" and suggest that NRA members are terrorists?

I can understand the original point of both the "no-fly list" and "terrorism watch list".

But mission creep is SOP in government. Ideas that made sense initially almost always end up being abused and applied in ways never envisioned when they were initiated.

These two lists are no different.
 
We don't know which behaviors, actions, relationships or words might land you on the Watch List. Posting on this message board could get you on the List. Something you said in a "private" phone conversation could get you on the List.

It sounds like once CT gets the lists, they won't wait for an attempted purchase, they will REMOVE all guns from the people in CT on the list. How will they know who on the list owns guns? After all, some may have inherited guns from family members or bought them via private sales. So....they will have to violate the 4th and 6th Amendments in order to find out. Which means busting down doors.
 
Sounds like another huge over reach to me. Can the citizens of CT do anything to stop this? Other than wait till the next election, by then the damage will be done.
 
Lists are just an excuse for tyrants. They know they don't have the power to nail the people they suspect legitimately, and, having utter disrespect for human rights, this frustrates them. So they put their undesirables on a list, and find them guilty. Of being on the list.

They only get away with it if the populace lets them, but somehow they so often do. Because it always starts with the least popular or represented groups. And always ends up devouring the whole nation.

I do not think the Democrats (the only elected officials promoting this, by the way) are in a position to get very far pushing this watchlist issue. At this time. There is still a large (and for now, growing) contingent of America that still values individual liberties above their own fears and hatreds. But that may not always be the case. In fact, I would argue it will soon not be the case. So what is important is to observe, learn, and prepare for that time, if you happen to value your individual liberties.

And most importantly, to remember. To remember that time the Democrats (or anti-gunners in general, whatever party they shack up with in the future) proudly rolled out the fuse that would destroy this country. It is not yet lit, since they lack the power to implement their desired confiscation by fiat, but it can be, and at any time they posses the needed political power. To anyone concerned about this issue, this is a declaration of a political arms race: the next time the Democrats secure a sufficient majority, they will enact mass-confiscation under the authority of the president. This is a fact, they just laid it out for all to see, with pride and exuberance, from the highest leadership on down, and from the very figurehead of the party, herself.

And from now on, whether they admit to it or not, it will be a core part of who they are, waiting for an opportunity to be given life, and rend the nation. We saw this kind of patient, calculating opportunism recently in the manner by which Obamacare was passed. We all learned in school about the kind of zealous, reckless pursuit of a moral ideal with willful blindness to consequences, in the run up to the Civil War. States fiercely sorting themselves into factions in order to secure the strongest voting bloc against ardent opposition, the carefully-erected system of checks & balances and electoral representation being weaponized by way of gerrymandering and vote-packing, and most crucially, the clear existential nature of the issue at hand being fully known to all involved, and this importance used not to justify careful and respectful collaboration, but as a rallying cry to herald the long-held desire of the aggressors to destroy & subjugate their rivals. All it took was the eventual tipping of the political scales towards a president & congress that would set the long-promised plan into motion...and the match was lit, and conflict inevitable. Not that it ever was not inevitable once the political debate ceased operating in good faith by one or both players; the North and South jockeyed for congressional control for a solid three decades before Lincoln settled the equation extra-judicially.

We can never afford to forget at this point, nor especially to forgive. They do want our guns, now and forever. They will take them by force if given the authority. They do not care what we think about it. They will not be giving us a choice in the matter when the time comes. We can never forgive this party or the supporters, foundations, and institutions that underpin it until the political careers & dynasties of any significance that once called for gun control have burned or decayed into irrelevance*. Until that time, the impulse to forcibly disarm us under threat of death for daring to disagree with them will remain very much alive beneath whatever image they choose to make themselves presentable. Nothing but complete repudiation of this gun control ideology is acceptable.**

And yet I still don't want them put on secret lists or debarred any of their civil rights; that is what separates us from animals (sometimes)

TCB

*Despite my bluster, I truly think it won't be long at all, now; few of the gun control leadership are younger than 60, and it's about to go down once more as a titanic loser of a political issue for the next generation
**See: Temperance. I want gun control even deader than that, certainly at the national level; completely off the table, for good. End our 100 year detour from the Second Amendment.
 
"barnbwt had this link posted in another thread but it is appropriate here.
It is a NYT op-ed from 4/14 about the numerous errors of the "no-fly" list."
And I'll in turn thank 'Ralph' on TTAG for posting it. Funny how fragile the Times' bonds of loyalty to the civil rights of its readership are...granted this is the same Times that gave carte blanch to any/all desires of government immediately post 9/11, and was certainly complicit in whatever supposed 'lies' were involved in orchestrating our subsequent retaliation in Afghanistan or retribution in Iraq/etc.

TCB
 
Open mouth, insert foot, ankle, thigh, and the whole torso.

Some just don't have a clue what the constitution really is, what it provides to us, and how. These types are quick to accept the notion that, well, if someone is on the list, then they must have done something very wrong. instead of asking the important question, why isn't due process being instituted and adhered to.

Yes, this is a wide open opportunity for the government to sweep up our firearms, lock us up, and throw away they key, without ever being charged with a crime. It's a perfect opportunity for this administration to institute a procedure that can't be verified, no checks and balances, thus the statement, "Seize the opportunity" by the Gov..

GS
 
So uh..CT is kinda small. What prevents someone from driving to NH, buying a rifle, and driving home?
 
Is Governor Malloy going to suspend the 1st amendment too, so they can't complain about it?:mad:
 
this basically makes the "Secret" watch lists public information

Of course. If a terrorist wonders if he has been discovered, all he has to do is amble into a gun store and ask to buy a gun. Then he'll know if he's on the list.
 
Finally, some common sense.

Yes, ban gun sales to people on the no fly list. It's a no-brainer. The national GOP has got this a$$ backwards, and are losing popular support and hurting the 2nd A movement by objecting to it.

If you are on the list you should be instantly denied. If a further background check clears you, then go ahead and make the purchase.

What we should really be focusing on as responsible gun owners is the guy who gave the two legally-purchased ARs to the terrorists in California. Make sure he spends the rest of his life in prison.
You are saying to make it a two-step, i.e. initial denial based on membership on the list, then recission of the denial if a "further background check" not defined in your post says you're OK. Something along those lines (but rather than an actual initial denial followed by possible recission maybe more like "we get more time to check you") would be a lot better than just a flat prohibition but everything would have to be clearly defined.

As far as the guy who furnished the AR's, he is a convert to Islam.
 
The best part is that if this could be the law, the government could just put on the list anybody they don't want to have a gun.
 
Two quotes come to mind:

"We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force."

"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.”
- Ayn Rand

If you live in CT, I feel sorry for you. I hope you can find a way to escape tyranny.
 
Also ironic how two of the biggest terrorists groups, the Tsarnov brothers and the San Berdino killers weren't on the no fly just so there could have still legally bought guns.
 
Aim1: that is the crux of the problem here. This idea that Hussain presented to use the No Fly List (NFL) for gun control has nothing to do with any act of terrorism. It would not have stopped any event in the past, will not stop foreign terrorists in the future, and is not a meaningful or logical response to the event that preceded it. Fast and Furious, which was intended to create the evidence needed to support the media assertion that Americans were funneling guns to Mexico so Hussain must ban guns from US citizens. This event appears to be used for the same ends. It is a legal loophole that uses public fear to demand gun control. To save time, I hereby deem all members of NRA, THR, GOA, shooting clubs, or gun ranges to be on the NFL. Those members now have 14 days to turn in all firearms for compensation. If they are found to possess firearms in the future, property, bank accounts, and freedom will be seized according to existing provisions of the patriot act. Furthermore, any citizen providing information leading to the arrest and conviction of a NFL gun owner after the 14 day grace period, will be compensated with a cash reward. Any citizen providing material support to a NFL gun owner after the grace period will forfeit property, accounts, and freedom. That should do it. That is how gold was removed from our society in 1933. If CT is allowed to set this precedent, it will spread.
 
I am wondering how we could spin this to our advantage, other than use common sense which is obviously being ignored. I'd love to see this backfire on Malloy, hard.

I'm hoping an adroit journalist will have the opportunity to ask him, "Governor, why bar residents of CT on the no-fly list from buying guns if you don't also know if they already own guns? Shouldn't we confiscate those guns too?"

This would either force Malloy to admit the idea is a huge due process violation, or get him to double-down on the stupid and propose confiscation. Unfortunately I doubt any journalist allowed in the same room with him would ask such a question.
 
"So uh..CT is kinda small. What prevents someone from driving to NH, buying a rifle, and driving home?"
Just the 68GCA law. So, physically...nothing

TCB
 
Something like 20 states use their own check and not NICS. TN is one of them.

Here, "Delay" isn't an option, just Proceed or Deny, which can be followed by an appeal that can take up to 15 business days. Also, the firearm you are buying is checked to see if it's ever been reported stolen. If so, the TBI rolls the local cops, and they show up within minutes to pick up the gun and start asking questions.

Also, if you're trading a gun, and get denied on the purchase, you don't get to unwind the deal and leave with the gun you came in with.
 
What has me scratching my head is that hardly anyone from the mainstream media have stated that the proposal is completely unconstitutional. It not only impacts the 2nd Amendment but also the 5th and 14th. Definitely a Dubya Tee Eff moment. :eek:
 
It should be undeniable that this is not legal and won't stand in the Courts.

Which makes this a very "good" thing. It may well inflict damage on innocent citizens - very much at random. What will happen? The State will get dragged thru the media as being overzealous and taking away the rights of citizens. Those who get quick dispensation and correction will be examples of the State's favoritism.

It's going to blow up in their face and increase resentment among the people. The average citizen will eventually see it for the stupidity it is, and that is EXACTLY what we want. It will be a case study in why it won't work. We know that - it's the State who refuses to accept it, and who has to inflict their decision on the People who will react to it.

At the National level, it's rumored the same thing is forthcoming - an EO to prevent anyone on the watch lists from purchasing firearms. That will hit the proverbial wind generator and the legal offal flung across society will generate a backlash affecting the next election. Can't wait to see that.

This is going to be a blessing in disguise. Did we like having the AWB in Clinton's day, no. Did it prove not to work and was allowed to sunset, YES. Now we have another stupid scheme which is already known to be a bad idea and it will be proven to not work, too. It won't add to someone's legacy any more than a blue dress, it's going to hand it to his party's successor to wear as a political issue. And she's already on the books as encouraging complete confiscation. That means even taking guns from her political contributors.

Stupid is as stupid does, and when you are stupid life hurts. We need the left to push even harder because it's proving everything we've said for decades.
 
If I am recalling correctly, no 'mass killer' has been on a no-fly list. Not one....ever.
So what is the point of all the hub-bub now? What would it stop??
Just another pointless placebo effect.
 
According to the news article, Connecticut State Police will somehow check the list, and refuse to process the state's required paperwork that's necessary to purchase some (if not all) firearms.
Maybe they won't do it that way, and maybe that's by design.

To buy a firearm; what if they demand that you prove you're NOT on the list?
 
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