Continuing Frustrations in Cold Bluing

Status
Not open for further replies.
D

Dionysusigma

Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2003
Messages
3,671
Location
Okay City
Before I get started, let me just say that I'm pretty :cuss: miffed.

I have a Sistema 1911. When I got it, the exterior was in the white, thanks to some screwball attacking it with what looks like a Dremel. :mad: Over the year or so I've had it, I've tried every cold blue I could find, from Brownells 44-40 to Perma Blue to Super Blue to the paste stuff to cooking on motor oil to etc.

NONE OF THEM WORK!!! :banghead:

The best I ever got was something akin to an overly-ugly case hardened finish.

I know what the next thought is going to be--"the secret is in the surface prep. You didn't do that correctly." Au contraire, I used Blue and Rust Remover to great effect, then gradually increasing grits to attain a decent polish, followed by Gun Scrubber, followed by dish soap and hot water (several times), to B-12 ChemTool (vary the step order if you wish--I tried doing them at different times to see if switching a couple steps would work). I even tried following the directions on each respective bottle.

Tonight, in a fit of desperation, I went out and bought a few bottles of Perma Blue, as a last-ditch effort to get a resilient, even finish by immserion. It almost worked.

Whatever "oxidation" formed to the top of the slide wiped off with a cloth soaked in oil after the post-immersion rinse. :scrutiny: :eek: Absolutely no resistance whatsoever--it actually reminded me of a school markerboard. :uhoh: The frame was handed like a newborn baby after that, and it seems to be doing fine, though I'm still very wary.

I am a student. I don't have money to spend on refinishing services (not including diasassembly, shipping, cleaning, bead blasting, etc.), nor do I have the time or space for fancy paint kits. Besides, my last (and only) experience with Duracoat was a disaster as well--it chipped right off the slide of my Vektor SP2 like whitewash on an old fence. I don't know chemistry well enough to attempt home Parkerization, nor do I have the money for said Park'ing kit.

I am at wit's end, here. I love my pistol, but I'm seriously considering selling or trading it off for something with an actual finish. :(

And don't get me started on upgrades, nor the threats of bodily harm promised me when I carry them out.
 
considering what you have already spent on cold blue, you could have Parked it on the stove...

its not too late, or even very hard.





or I'll make you an offer and you can get something you really want. PM for details.
 
NOTHING is a pretty (or durable) as a hard chromed 1911 - give Tripp a call...
 
Try Van's instant blueing. Follow the directions and you will get a durable blue job you will be proud off. www.vansgunblue.com I've been using it for nearly ten years and it is great just hard to find in stores. Used to buy it at the gun shows now I get it online.
 
Don't despair. You have learned the secret of cold blue. It won't do what you want. If you want it really hard and work diligently at preparation it would not do what you want either, but at least you will have spent time off the streets and away from bars, so it's not necessarily a complete waste of time.

Cold blue can be a useful cosmetic touchup in some applications but it is of temporary durability. That's what it is and what it does. If it did what you wanted, businesses that did other kinds of finishing would close their doors, their employees would be on the dole, and the economy would crumble. You wouldn't want that to happen, would you?

The fact that you are a student, do not have money for other kinds of refinishing, and can't afford to or know how to parkerize, might change the entire picture. I'll try to think about how it might do that and get back to you as soon as I can.
 
*sigh*

Should I just go ahead and have my gunsmith send it off to be parkerized? Price he quoted me is $150, which (including shipping, etc.) isn't all that bad, I guess... tax return might just come in handy.

I've pretty much given up on my own abilities at this point.
 
Either send it off, or look online for the do-it-yourself kitchen stove top parkerizing method.

You can buy parkerizing solution, or even make your own, but for the price I'd buy it from Brownell's.
You really can do it on a stove top with an iron pot and bare minimum supplies.

There are people that do home gun bluing with... honest to God, stump remover from the hardware store.

However, the easiest would be parkerizing.
Basically, you cook the parts in the solution.
 
I've never tried home parkerizing but if Dfariswheel says it's easy, it's easy. He always knows what he's talking about. No joke.

I have done hot water bluing and GunKote. Hot water bluing can be done on a stove top but it is tricky to get a good finish. GunKote is a blast (sorry, I just watched a documentary on humor) and the results are good, but the right equipment is an investment.
 
I've used the creme Oxpho from Brownells on an entire 1911.

Works good in that it "darkens" fine. Some areas a little darker than others.

But...it's $5.00 compared to $150...so!

Wears quickly. Easy to reapply which IMHO is a big plus for cold blues.

I haven't tried it, but I've read that if you heat up the surface a bit...that helps. Hairdryer for example.
 
$150.00 for Parkerizing a pistol is outrageous... :cuss:

The only thing that you probably can't do is sandblast the surface on those parts you want to refinish. Look around the area you live in to see if you can find a machine shop that has a sandblaster. Detail strip the pistol and have the pieces subject to refinishing "blasted."

Call or e-mail Brownells (www.brownells.com) and they'll send you a free copy of the instructions that come with their Parkerizing kit. It will explain the entire process in detail so you'll know what you're getting into before you actually do.

You will need to make some wire hooks to hold the larger parts, and a stainless steel kitchen strainer to hold smaller ones, such as screws and pins. The tank should be stainless steel, and an old cooking pan large enough to hold the parts will do. If you can't find stainless, an ordinary pot will do after the inside is given several coats of paint primer.

Buy a gallon of distilled water to mix with the Parkerizing solution. Otherwise tap water is fine.

Brownells sells a special soap for cleaning parts prior to refinishing that doesn't leave a film.

Excluding the cost of getting the parts sandblasted, which shouldn't be much, this entire project shouldn't run $50.00, and the results will be as good as any commercial job.
 
Inexpensive refinish

Another alternative is to polish the gun youself and send it out prepared for hot blueing. Cold blue looks OK until you put it next to the real thing. Lots of refinishers do prepared guns for $35-$60. Try BigArizonaAl or Mel Doyle in Idaho.
 
I've done parkerizing on a stovetop several times. I got a stainless steel pan deep enough to submerge the parts from a commercial kitchen supply store (think steamer pan or buffet line type pan).
 
Of note, parkerizing can/does release noxious gases, so you'll want to do it with the kitchen window open, or pick up a $15 electric hot plate/burner and do it in a garage or basement (again, window open in that case) away from food prep.

I've not yet done so myself, but as soon as I get said hot plate I'll have spent around $60-70 for all the things I need (note, I tend to be a little over-thorough in preparation for anything; I got the Brownells manganese and zinc liquid and the pot, etc. locally). However, I'm doing my parkerizing as a 'project', with the acknowledgement htat I'll likely screw something up. If I had a Sistema I enjoyed shooting, I'd probably send it off. I don't know what the price for that would be, but the places I've found that will do bead blasting (when I was looking into bluing the gun instead of park) quoted me around $50 plus media cost if the gun is already disassembled.

I've cold blued things, and I'd suspect that part of the reason the finish didn't work too well is 1) you didn't apply enough "coats", 2) you didn't prep the surface finely enough, and 3) the steel may have slightly oxidized prior to submersion making the molecular change less thorough. Just a couple thoughts.
 
I've found that using 0000 steel wool to rub in the cold blue solution helps achieve a consistent coloration.

But all cold blues wear quickly and are less durable than most any other option.
 
The parkerizing is a good recommendation for a hobbyist (or hacker in my case); it's fairly easy to do.
I bought mine from Midway USA. (under $7 less s/h for either the zinc or manganese phosphate solution)
I used this site for info: http://www.blindhogg.com/parkerizing.html
Surface prep is an important thing. I sand blasted, washed, and wiped with acetone. I don't see any reason chemical stripping followed by cleaning/degreasing shouldn't work.
I experimented by just heating some of the solution mixed with water (acid into water) in a large glass by microwave.:what: (Use something microwave safe.)
+1 on the fume issue mentioned earlier.
I don't like using their sealer and had better results with motor oil.
I think it worked out pretty well.
6qcti4i.jpg
817fj35.jpg
7ypua79.jpg
6s72fiq.jpg
This wasn't intended as instruction; it's just how I did it.:uhoh:
The solution does contain phosphoric acid, so it would be best follow the product instructions and be careful.
Regards,
Greg
 
Last edited:
Degrease the part with brake cleaner.
Boil it in distilled water for 5 minutes to bring it up to temperature.
Immerse it in a container of Oxpho blue.
Rinse in a different pot of boiling distilled water.
Repeat until you get the desired deep blue color.
 
Let's say I go with the Brownells parkerizing. Would I have to remove the ejector block and grip screw bushings?
 
Would I have to remove the ejector block and grip screw bushings?
Click to expand...

No, you wouldn't have to remove the grip screw bushings, ejector, or plunger tube for either Parkerizing or bluing. If you were doing a high polish job on the sides if the frame you might remove the grip screw bushings and plunger tube, but not the ejector.
 
Cold Blue

I had the exact same problem trying to cold blue my Sistema. I decided to use Dura Coat with some-what success. Degrease with acetone, lightly sand, blow clean, and spray-on the Dura Coat.
 
Be damned careful with those "home brew" bluing formulas. One claims to be "safe" and easy, but the chemicals are the same as those in regular caustic hot bluing salts. That means the whole schtick - tank heaters, rubber apron and boots, eye and face protection, a floor surface you don't care about, a cold emergency shower close by, etc., etc. I heard about one guy who decided to do his handgun in a solution of that stuff in an aluminum pot. Apparently no one told him that those caustic salts dissolve aluminum, and he got the whole load in the wrong place. Ouch!

Jim
 
Wax over the cold blue will help its longevity. Not much, but some. Parkerizing seems to be the cost effective solution. Just be sure to keep it oiled.

The most attractive, cheap blue job would be rust bluing. It is labor intensive, however. It also takes quite a bit of time.
 
I've been unsuccessful with cold blues as well, but have seen good results from others. I think a lot has to do with the particluar composition and heat treatment of the steel. Cold blues may not work with your particular gun.

I concur with the above advice to try oxpho-blue or one of the other stove top hot blue solutions from Brownells. Call Brownells and talk to one of their tech support gunsmiths.

One thing I did not see in your prep descriptions was mention of degreasing. This is critical in my experience, and difficult to measure just how successful you have been. Skin oil from your hands can seriously mess up any attempts to get penetration on the metal, and it is easy to fool yourself as to how "degreased" your work is.

It is fairly easy to degrease your work with any number of mild solvents or even soapy water, but then it is easy to re-introduce a tiny amount of oil through your handling process.

One example is use of steel wool, which I have found needs to be degreased before use. I buy it in the plastic bag-like containers from the hardware store, and it comes with some sort of preservative on it as it is not all rusted in the bag. I soak this in rubbing alcohol then drain and dry to get it clean before use.

One of my friends kept having bad results and I noticed he was using nitrile gloves to protect his hands - very smart - but he was not getting the outside of the gloves clean before touching parts. Slight amounts of oil from the gloves was transferring to his parts. One fix to the process was to go to a steel wire to hold parts through the process, another was to glove up then wash and dry his "hands" with the gloves on before touching the parts.

If I sound borderline paranoid about minute amounts of oil then I am possibly being clear about my experiences in refinishing gun parts.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

D
  • Locked
First Time Cold Bluing
Replies
17
Views
1K
tws3b2
tws3b2
A
  • Locked
Cold Blue: What Am I Doing Wrong?
2
Replies
33
Views
34K
mike288190
M
M
  • Locked
Remington 760 BDL trouble cold bluing reciever
Replies
10
Views
451
Kp321
K
A
  • Locked
Cold Bluing
Replies
10
Views
1K
AK Gun Man 88
A
Q
  • Locked
Reblue end of the barrel and crown?
Replies
5
Views
961
PTSchram
P
Back
Top