'Converting weapon to automatic' law:

Status
Not open for further replies.
K

Keaner

Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2004
Messages
392
Location
Hillsboro, OR
OK, I was thinking about this the other night, and it really bothers me. I was told that telling someone how to convert a weapon from semi-automatic to automatic is illegal?

I think this is VERY wrong! First, it is CLEARLY a Freedom of Speech/Education issue. Second, since when has discussing physics been a problem! And Finally, anyone with a decently physical mind can look at most autoloaders and figure out an easy way to make them "truly" automatic (ie, not just firing till empty, actually stopping when the trigger is released).

Heck, I was cleaning my trigger group to my M1 Garand, and figured out in about 10 minutes what would be required to make it an automatic! I think it is absurd to limit someone from speaking freely about something like this.

Oh, and another point, find me a single chem student who hasn't been shown how to make C4 (I learned in !HS! from my chem teacher's leasons!). How is this any different?
 
Where did you hear it was against the law to discuss how to modify a semi into an auto?

What law would that be ... maybe the "Anti scary talk" law?

Sounds like something they'd come up with in the PRK.
 
OK, I was thinking about this the other night, and it really bothers me. I was told that telling someone how to convert a weapon from semi-automatic to automatic is illegal?
Click to expand...
Do you have a source on that? I've reviewed the NFA and the ATF regs, and I don't see any prohibition on simply explaining to someone how to convert a weapon to full auto. IANAL, and I'm not even very good at reading laws/regs, however, so I could easily be wrong.

Or it could be a state prohibition in some states, I suppose.

But before I get all riled up over it, I'd like confirmation that it exists.
 
I believe I read about it in "Unintended Concequences" (in the gun show scene), and was reminded of it because of a Law and Order episode the other day.
 
John Ross wrote a bit about this in "Unintended Consequences." (This is not to say that a work of fiction is a definitive source.) The theory goes that if someone in a position of authority wanted to make your life uncomfortable, they could try to get you to explain to someone else how to do the conversion, then nab you for "conspiracy to violate Federal firearms laws." Don't know if it would stick, but who knows.
 
It's not far off, I mean possessing a small machined metal part will put you behind bars for years. Thought crime becomes closer to reality every day.
 
As Paladin Press found out, be careful of what you write.
 
Interesting.

Quick googling gave me the SCOTUS ruling in US v. Shabani, which seems to indicate that conspiracy alone can, in fact, be a crime, regardless of anyone actually doing anything. I haven't read the decision, so I don't know the full extent of the ruling.

However, it seems that there has to be an actual plan to do something illegal, not just a discussion of how something could be done. Obviously, someone who's got it in for you can charge you regardless of what actually happened, but that can happen for any crime. A DA could make your life uncomfortable by bringing charges of murder against you by randomly picking a missing person and handing you a summons.

In any event, I'd like to believe that charges based solely on a discussion of how one could do something would be dismissed on prior restraint grounds. After Raich, of course, that's not as easy for me to do as it once would have been, but still.
 
Interesting... I was very worried about even bringing it up at the range/shop (what I had figured out), but was afraid of getting people in trouble. I was originally surprised that it was so easy, and had figured there must be a flaw in my thinking. (Not that I actually want to do this, because I dont, but just wondering for the heck of wondering)
 
If one has the time to search for patents, you can find how any repeating firearm can be made full auto, even bolt action, lever action and pump action.
I don't think it's illegal to do patent searches, yet!
 
Class 2 manufacturers routinely discuss various devices and conversions and whatnot with non-ffls. Hell they talk about it on some internet forums. We've had pictures of drop-in autosears for ARs and sears for other guns in picture threads here.

Discussion is not illegal if there is no intent to break the law. Otherwise Small Arms Review magazine would be right out.
 
Interesting... I was very worried about even bringing it up at the range/shop (what I had figured out), but was afraid of getting people in trouble.
Click to expand...

Save yourself the risk of trouble and don't even discuss it. If you and another guy start talking about how to convert a rifle to full-auto, and then that other guy goes off and tries it out, then you can get jammed up on a conspiracy charge.

Conspiracy is two or more people planning a crime, and then one person takes action to advance the plan.

John Ross wrote a bit about this in "Unintended Consequences."
Click to expand...

I remember that part, also. BTW, if you have not done so already, go out and buy Unintended Consequences. It's far better than Enemies Foreign and Domestic or The Black Arrow.
 
I just ten minutes ago finished U.C.
I can tell it was fiction... the gun owners won.
We are ten years further down the path described and things getting worse by the day.
 
Well, full auto is easy enough, a FA weapon is MUCH simplier in construction than a S-A.

As for bolt/lever/pump action: find some way to disable the recoil/gas system, and attach a bolt, lever, or pump to it!
 
Jefnvk,

The Australians did it to a bolt action, the Charlton Conversion of a SMLE to automatic in WW II when they figured the Nips were coming ashore any day.

Hiram Maxim, John Browning and Bill Ruger did it with lever actions. Maxim put a traveling buttplate on a Winchester to actuate the lever by recoil and Mr Browning put a flapper on the muzzle and a pull rod to the lever to demonstrate gas operation. I don't know just what Ruger did to a Savage 99, but he made it an automatic or autoloader, too.
 
Any semi-auto can be made full auto if you disable the disconnector. The problem is the hammer will drop when the bolt/slide is out of battery and you never know if it will blow up in your face or not. You can figure this out by reading the instruction manual that comes with your gun, so I don't see the ATF jumping all over it.

The factory installed auto sears are timed to release the hammer after the action has locked up. Full auto sears are called 'safety sears' sometimes because of that.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

R
  • Locked
Definition of Assault Weapon/Rifle?
Replies
4
Views
754
Outlaws
O
F
  • Locked
Noob questions about automatic rifles
2
Replies
32
Views
2K
MisterPX
M
K
  • Locked
Romney endorses Manchester GOP fundraiser with automatic weapons
2
Replies
44
Views
2K
kungfuhippie
K
J
  • Locked
How Do Private Protection Companies Get Automatic Weapons?
Replies
23
Views
4K
JLStorm
J
M
  • Locked
Letter from my Congressman
Replies
1
Views
439
emc
E
Back
Top