Noob questions about automatic rifles

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I wouldn't really mind not being able to sell it as long as I can prove it's legal without too much hassle.

You want hassle, try making a new MG and then claiming, "But I wasn't going to sell it." Nope, sorry, not going to fly. If it was that easy don't you think people would already be doing that.

Sorry, there is no cheap way to get a MG. Try building one up from scratch, even if you manufacture the receiver yourself, and your going to federal prison.
 
Within the last month I have seen a sten gun for $4,000 and an M2 Carbine for $4,200. There were also some .380 MAC11 (not M11/9 but the mini fat MACs) for $2,500.

Also, silencers, short barreled shotguns/rifles, AOWs, and destructive devices (live artillery, grenade launchers) can currently be manufactured so are reletavely cheap. You could pick up a 75mm pack howitzer or a 57mm anti tank cannon for about the price of a transferable M-16

I currently have a MAC10 in 9mm with a Gemtech silencer. I’m considering trading it for an FNC sear just like the one in the picture on page one. My next big purchase will be a RAMO defense 50BMG M2HB. Before that I would like to pickup a LMT 40mm M203.

Have fun and let me know if you have any questions. I live in Florida also so could recommend some dealers.

Dan
 
You want hassle, try making a new MG and then claiming, "But I wasn't going to sell it." Nope, sorry, not going to fly. If it was that easy don't you think people would already be doing that.

Sorry, there is no cheap way to get a MG. Try building one up from scratch, even if you manufacture the receiver yourself, and your going to federal prison.


That's the other thing I was afraid of. I want something totally legal, not legal in the sense that I may be acquitted after a long and expensive trial. If the batf ever responds to my email I'll post it here.

I don't really expect any of this to be cheap, but if $10-15k is the only route to a select-fire AR than I think I'll just buy a semi-auto and new motorcycle instead.






Also, silencers, short barreled shotguns/rifles, AOWs, and destructive devices (live artillery, grenade launchers) can currently be manufactured so are reletavely cheap. You could pick up a 75mm pack howitzer or a 57mm anti tank cannon for about the price of a transferable M-16

I currently have a MAC10 in 9mm with a Gemtech silencer. I’m considering trading it for an FNC sear just like the one in the picture on page one. My next big purchase will be a RAMO defense 50BMG M2HB. Before that I would like to pickup a LMT 40mm M203.

Have fun and let me know if you have any questions. I live in Florida also so could recommend some dealers.


So artillery, and grenade launchers, can still be manufactured and sold to civilians, but not a rifle with three round burst capability? Wow, these laws are retarded.

From what I have read it seems that it would be pretty easy to assemble a short-barreled AR, it's just the $200 tax stamp, right? When I put together my AR it will probably be a SBR. I think I am going to set up a living trust to do it.

Thanks for the help fellow Floridian, if you know of any good "kitchen table" FFLs or nice shops you could recommend I'd appreciate it. The few local shops I have been to have all been staffed by jerks.
 
Try Anvil Arms http://www.anvilarms.com/ there located relatively close to you. Very nice people too. I’m going to buy my M203 form them here in the next couple months. Most 07 FFLs don’t mess with destructive devices; these people are more than happy to. They might have their class 10 FFL, I’m not sure. There one of the few which will gladly handle DD for their customers.

The short barreled AR you could register on a form 1. You will however have to engrave it with your name and address or the name and address or your trust. Some people are doing the engraving under the pistol grip so that it doesn’t show, yet isn’t permanently covered as per ATF spec. Anvil Arms will do the engraving for you too.

Dan
 
I believe you can make, rather than commercially manufacture any firearm including full auto as long as you make it for yourself.
Let's make this very clear, shall we? Your statement is
WRONG
I mean $250,000 and 10 years prison wrong.
I mean, you could be jailed for even suggesting it (conspiracy to commit crimes).

The case you are referring to is Stewart. Yes, the 9th Circuit said he could do that ... but his case was appealed to the Supreme Court, where it was dismissed in light of the Raich verdict, which (on very similar terms) declared essentially that the feds could regulate anything they want to any degree they want (in this case, a little old lady with terminal cancer did warrant a dynamic-entry raid to confiscate her medicinal-use-only pot plant). Stewart was, IIRC, dismissed with a "see Raich" footnote. The "homegrown machinegun" notion is dead now.

Lest one abandon hope: follow the Heller case closely. It is very close to the Supreme Court declaring the 2nd Amendment an individual right which means what it says. If it is ruled on as expected, we will have rock-solid grounds for buying new M4s at normal market prices.
 
Well, technically speaking, the 9th Circuit ruled a person could make their own MG, but a SCOTUS decision on what constitutes "interstate commerce" seems to have undone that. Which is a shame or else a lot of us would have home built MG's. I suspect that led to a lot of people thinking they can build their own MG's legally, which is sadly false.

To the original poster: you might try looking into Gatling guns, which are not classified as MG's...
 
The short barreled AR you could register on a form 1. You will however have to engrave it with your name and address or the name and address or your trust. Some people are doing the engraving under the pistol grip so that it doesn’t show, yet isn’t permanently covered as per ATF spec. Anvil Arms will do the engraving for you too.

Greetings All,

Just wanted to chime in on the "under the pistol grip" issue. There is an ATF letter clearly stating that this is not allowed. It must be in an area that is not covered when the unit is in normal use. On the other hand, if you buy a factory built SBR there is no requirement to engrave anything at all on it since the factory name is already on the receiver. We sell those all the time.

By the way, Yes, we are more than happy to work with civilians to help them legally obtain DD's (and all class III items!)

One note to the OP about the Mac10. In its virgin form it is a very fast (to fast really) cycling gun and is not really all that accurate. However, there is a company that makes an entire replacement "upper" for it that slows it down nicely and makes it look more like an Uzi. I believe the unit sells for about $800 if I am not mistaken. I had a link for the company but I can not find it now, maybe somebody else will have it.

Lastly, as many have already said, no way, no how to legally "build your own machine gun" or any such thing. As stated, it must have been built AND REGISTERED prior to May 1986.

That example of finding an old Tommy gun in the attic was perfect. Except that to destroy it according to the atf, smashing will not get it, no matter how smahsed. The receiver must be cut into 3 pieces and the cuts must remove (I think) 1/4" of metal. :banghead:

You could then go here http://www.philaord.com/products/m1.html and buy an 80% receiver and using most of the other parts, build a SEMI-auto gun and be perfectly legal. As an 02-07 FFL SOT Manufacturer I could use that same 80% receiver and all of the original parts to build it back into a full auto. I could keep it as a company gun, sell it to a police department or US military (like either of them would want/buy it) or sell/transfer it to another FFL/SOT "AFTER" they got a letter from a LEO or Military unit commander saying they wanted to see one for training/demonstration.

Also, Instead of cutting it up you could donate it to a LEO department or some museums. While the initial phone call and in person interview might be an interesting conversation, as long as grandpa really did recently pass on and it really was found buried in the attic you would not be at risk of arrest or anything. You simply found it and called the LEO to come take it into custody until it could be figured out what was the legal thing to do. It actually happens from time to time.

Hope some of the above was useful,

Jon Kruger
President, Anvil Arms LLC
Lakeland, FL.

Class 07/02 FFL SOT Manufacturer

863-398-4460

http://www.AnvilArms.com
 
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