Cops and Armed Citizens

[rainbowbob]

The following is a link to the "Police Link" website and an excerpt from an article by a retired cop on the issue of citizen CCW.

The story, and the comments that follow on the website, are very positive. Preaching to the choir, perhaps, but good to know that a large number of LEOs - even in Chicago - support arming well-trained citizens.


http://policelink.monster.com/train..._source=nlet&utm_content=pl_c1_20100810_armed


Cops and Armed Citizens
By Sgt. Betsy Brantner Smith

Sergeant Betsy Brantner Smith is a 29-year veteran of a large Chicago suburban police department.

The whole citizen carry issue, often mixed in with the broader debate over “gun control” in general, has been terribly politicized and the debate rages on to this day. Yes, the United States is the leader in “per capita gun deaths among industrial nations,” a statistic that gun control advocates love to throw around. However, as most cops will tell you, the issue is a whole lot more complicated. One of the best resources out there is John Lott’srecently updated book “More Guns, Less Crime.” Basically, Lott concluded in an 18 year study that states who allowed citizens to carry concealed weapons saw violent crime goes down. Pretty logical stuff; the more law abiding citizens who train and arm themselves, the less victims we have. He has continued to study this issue objectively but passionately; every crimefighter should read his work.

My adopted home town, the city of Chicago, is a perfect example of Lott’s conclusions. We’re averaging 20 – 40 shootings a weekend, three Chicago cops have been killed this year, off duty, since May, and yet Chicago has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation! Who’s got the guns? The cops and the bad guys; and frankly, the cops tend to be out-numbered and often out-gunned. All the gun laws in the world aren’t going to keep thugs from owning, carrying and using firearms, so all the City of Chicago is doing is keeping law abiding citizens from legally obtaining personal protection firearms.

 

[Roswell_Kid]

Nice find Rainbowbob! I hope a lot of people will read it.

 

[TheProf]

Most LEOs (especially those families of their own) support the 2nd amendment. I think that veteran cops know that this is a dangerous world and would want their loved ones armed.

It's the young rookie cop that is most likely to feel that cops are the only ones that should guns. Most veteran cops know that they are safer when law abiding citizens are armed. The armed law abiding citizen becomes a deterrent to criminal activity.

For what its worth, most cops I know are pretty decent folks... and support the 2nd Amendment.

 

[Sauer Grapes]

Last Thursday I was stopped for rolling thru a stop sign. The LEO was in his early 40's I would say. Hell of a nice guy. He had me dead to rights and told me flat out, I see your a NRA member and I like your "GOT SIG?" sticker on your back window.
Try to stop at these stop signs around here, we've had a couple people hit by vehicles in the last couple months. Have a good night!

 

[Dulvarian]

Lol.

I don't carry any stickers other than my military ones. That last post has me thinking. I have a new set of NRA life member stickers and a Got Sig sticker just sitting on my dresser. Maybe I should put them on.

Then again, when any cop has ever seen my base stickers, you can see the $$ ring up in their eyes because they know we will pay, even if you try to fight it in court.

Maybe if the Navy ever got over issuing base stickers I will.

 

[The Crimson King]

I wouldn't go so far as to say most cops look favorably upon citizens carrying concealed weapons.

 

[Big_E]

I saw a video of a shooting where a cop was pinned down by a shooter and an armed citizen assisted the LEO and actually took the assailant out. Law abiding citizens and LEO's working together will bring crime down to a minimum.

Now if we could get more citizens from being afraid of attackers and firearms.

 

[CraigC]

What is sad is how many cops think that we should give up our liberties just to make their jobs easier.

 

[rainbowbob]

What is sad is how many cops think that we should give up our liberties just to make their jobs easier.

Do you have any basis for that opinion?

 

[Mr. Bojangles]

I've been CCing for about 5 years now and due to my propensity to speed while driving an automobile I've had contact with several law enforcement officers. I've never had any of them give me a bad time about CCing (I do have a valid permit.) In fact, often times the officer becomes more courteous. I realize your experience may vary but mine's been very positive.

 

[Glasstream15]

I don't personally know many LEOs. I do know our sheriff because of some political issues, but we only discuss those issues. But our FOP lodge has a great outdoor range with room for everything from pistols to high power rifles at 200 yards. And their membership, I'm one, is over half non-LEO. They like for civilians to come out and practice and there are different instruction groups use the range every month. So I would guess they approve of civilians having and carrying guns. We're even okay carrying to meetings.

Draw your own conclusions.

 

[longdayjake]

I find that cops opinions vary widely depending on what part of the country you are in. Here in Idaho cops don't get very far if they treat us like subjects. Bigger cities, thats a different story.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Nice article. I have one small issue though - associating "well trained" with the RIGHT to self protection. For instance this comment posted in response to the article:

Akangel - That's the best CCW process I've seen yet. I'm all for honest citizens being allowed to arm themselves WITH PROPER TRAINING. Here in Washington State all you have to do is pass a criminal background check & pay your $60. I'd like to see a nationally standardized process similar to AK's process that would allow people to carry their gun across state lines. Criminals are going to get their guns no matter what. Anyone have any stats on how many crimes are committed by legally licensed gun owners compared to criminals with illegally possessed & carried guns?

I would simply pose this question: If the "untrained" people carrying firearms is such a big problem, then why are we not seeing that problem manifest itself in states like Alaska, Vermont, Arizona, Washington, Wyoming, Montana, Colorado, North Carolina, Virginia, South Dakota, New Mexico and Nevada AND IDAHO - all states where the "untrained" can legally arm themselves in public?

Who is going to decide what level of training is sufficient in order to be "allowed" to exercise the "right" to self protection by carrying the most effective means of self protection available?

 

[longdayjake]

You forgot Idaho.

 

[CraigC]

Do you have any basis for that opinion?

No, I just assumed that's what they all think.

Of course there is a basis for that opinion, discussions with law enforcement personel. Not to mention the opinions and positions of the police organizations who support more gun control laws.

 

[jlasserton]

Thanks for sharing the article. It is great to hear how armed forces are respecting citizens caring a firearm. Now if we could only get all cities to respond this positively.

 

[JellyJar]

I have a theory that states that police tend to prefer the gun laws of where they are from. When I worked in the furniture store in Houston we had off duty police officers as security guards during the Xmas holidays and on weekends. Most of the local cops thought it was all right for people to own handguns in their homes or businesses but not be allowed to CCW. ( this was before Texas enacted it's current CHL laws ) One officer, however, had originally been a NYC cop before either leaving or being laid off and he was definitely of the opinion that only cops should have handguns, even in their homes and businesses.

The two cops I have met here in Alabama since moving back, as well as the local sheriff, were all for CCW by citizens.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I think that is true of people in regards to gun control in general, JellyJar. Especially for people who were born, grow up and reside in the same state. Most of the anti-open carry comments I have seen come from people who live in states where open carry is illegal. Most of the comments supporting training being required in order to carry a gun come from people in those states where there is training required. The same is true for licensed-only carrying.

One thing I noticed in the article in reference to the writer's trip to Washington. It almost sounded to me like she thought the same restrictions applied to people in Washington that applied in Chicago or Illinois, which is not true. People can carry guns in Washington with no permit/license at all.

 

[rfwobbly]

You forgot Idaho.

You also forgot Georgia. Open or concealed carry with a GA Firearms Permit.

 

[NavyLCDR]

You also forgot Georgia. Open or concealed carry with a GA Firearms Permit.

And Pennsylvania, too, I think. So that brings carrying guns in public without training legal in some form or another in at least 15 states. Where's the problem?

 

[Jumping Frog]

I've also noticed that the rank and file police are generally pro-CCW, but the FOP leadership and police chiefs are not.

When we have had legislation pending in Ohio, the head of the Ohio State Highway Patrol, the Buckeye Sheriff's Association, and the FOP union leadership all generally testify against any legislation increasing gun rights.

However, the cop on the street generally is pro-CCW.

 

[jcwit]

Forgot Indiana, we get a permit to carry, sayes nothing about open or concealed.

 

[valorius]

Do you have any basis for that opinion?

You actually doubt that there are anti-gun cops?

And Pennsylvania, too, I think. So that brings carrying guns in public without training legal in some form or another in at least 15 states. Where's the problem?

No open carry in Philly, Harrisburg, or Pittsburgh in Pa.

 

[ThePunisher'sArmory]

No carry in The Peoples Republic of Illinois......yet. We need to get Bill Brady in office this Nov!

 

[cauberallies]

No carry in The Peoples Republic of Illinois......yet. We need to get Bill Brady in office this Nov!

ThePunisher'sArmory, I had to read over your two sentence post half a dozen times to make sure my sarcasm detector wasn't broken. Having a name like Bill Brady as a pro gun politician is akin to someone named John Hitler running for prime minister of Israel.