Cops and attitude Problems...

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Regarding Average Joes...

I might be wrong, but I think what Vex meant was the lethargic, apathy filled person who can't be bothered one way of the other. We have some of them in the shooting world when it comes to defending our 2nd Amendment rights. (sorry for interpreting your post Vex)

In truth, most police departments are heavily influenced by the public. Just ask your average commanding / administrative officer. The patrol cop might not be aware of it, but most of what he does is a result of Joe Citizen. I have regularly seen CO's come in on their days off to attend meetings and planning officers pull their hair out to redeploy already thin assets to cover areas complained of. I don't know of any Police Dept. that is not run by a civilian. Whether they are a Mayor, Town Board, City Manager, etc....
 
Every cop that intimidated the tester, and every one above him in his chain of command should be fired. It just goes to show that most cops are corrupt to some degree. This kind of behavior is no secret... and any cop that knows about it and does nothing to correct it is not a good cop, but part of the problem.
 
It just goes to show that most cops are corrupt to some degree. This kind of behavior is no secret... and any cop that knows about it and does nothing to correct it is not a good cop, but part of the problem.
END QUOTE

I take great offense to your post. It seems to me you have an ax to grind.
Pat
 
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If you want to see an entire police department with major attitude problems, google the latest news for Mardi Gras in San Luis Obispo, CA. You'll see a huge paramilitary organization looking for a fight with college students. Not hardened criminals or international terrorists; college students. It makes me wanna :barf:
 
College's have their share of crime. Lots of drugs, fair amount of date rape. Some homicide. The age group of 19-25 contains the largest percentage of criminals.

Police by nature are a para military organization. Thats the way it is and always has been. Sounds like your crying for nothing.
Pat
 
Or is it just easier to be big, bad tactical swat cop when you're dealing with a few drunk college students? Crime (real crime) in San Luis Obispo is almost non-existent. The SLO PD has been a local joke for a long time. The motorcycle cops are especially hilarious, they're about 5'5" tall and have HUGE mustaches.
 
Well.... I can see that this thread isn't going to last much longer.



But, back to the issue - MEAN PEOPLE SUCK!

There is really no excuse for a couple of the officer's reactions.

I realize that we are not seeing all of the video, only the parts edited by the news-crew-with-an-agenda, but some of what is shown is NOT acceptable.

People who use thier position to intimidate and bully others need to have thier day of reckoning, and, for better or for worse, the video camera in the hands of the media is bringing this day to reality for some offenders.
 
R.H. Lee said;
If you want to see an entire police department with major attitude problems, google the latest news for Mardi Gras in San Luis Obispo, CA.

And what happened during previous Mardi Gras' to bring out this response? I can guarantee you that no one, not the police, not the city fathers, not the school administration enjoys a riot. It sounds a lot like the situation they used to have at Halloween at SIU Carbondale. The party started out like a bunch of drunk college students, then it evolved into fights, windows being broken out, cars overturned and set on fire.....After a few years the Carbondale Police Deptartment, the SIU Police Department and mutal aid from many other PDs in the area wasn't enough to stop Halloween from turning into a drunken orgy of destruction and property damage. Finally the school administration turned to cancelling school, closing the dorms and sending the kids away during Halloween. I've seen the video of the previous Halloween celebrations. Believe me, riot is the proper term.

Before you judge the San Louis Obispo PD's response to Mardi Gras you might look into what went on at past Mardi Gras. It could be that the heavy police presence is what keeps the peace there.

The motorcycle cops are especially hilarious, they're about 5'5" tall and have HUGE mustaches.

What does the size of an officer's moustache have to do with anything?

Jeff
 
What does the size of an officer's moustache have to do with anything?
Nothing, really. But it's hard to command any respect when you're a little short LEO with a HUGE helmet and those goofy baggy motorcycle pants. It looks comical and doesn't really help their public perception as serious law enforcement officers.

Jeff, I live here. The SLOPD precipitated the 'riot'; they brought in on themselves; they instigated it and they elevated it. They overreacted in every way possible. They have been overreacting to Mardi Gras for years. I've seen it up close and personal. I've seen motorcycle cops and equestrian cops bully and intimidate parade watchers for stepping off the sidewalk. I've seen them call in the CHP helicopter for no other reason than to increase the intimidation factor. It's like the pack mentalily; you get too many dogs together at once and they become aggressive. Same with cops. They're a totally overfunded and incompetent police department in my opinion. They're rarely able to solve any real crimes on their own; they always need outside help.

One can only hope they never have any real hardcore crime to deal with; they're totally unprepared
for it.
 
People who use thier position to intimidate and bully others need to have thier day of reckoning, and, for better or for worse, the video camera in the hands of the media is bringing this day to reality for some offenders.

I love camera's they help to get convictions and they help keep us honest in leo work.
Pat
 
I think that at least one of the facts is bad press makes a far more interesting news than good press. I don't watch cops but how many bad guys over the years have they publicly shown on that program? I also know of some very good members of LE as my mother was a deputy sheriff in Texas for 13 years and is now a correctional officer in Colorado. I also know there are a few bad apples in the group that think they are above the law and they irritate the hell out of me, and my mother. They are like bad teachers with tenure, you just can't get rid of them unless they REALLY REALL REALLY screw up. It can seem like, and I am willing to bet it is in some areas of the country it is, a conspiracy. Unfortunately we are always going to have this problem and we have to talk about it and remain ever vigilant to fix the problems, and never give up even knowing the problems will never go away in total. We cannot become apathetic or to the other extream so idealistic that we either under or over react. Also recognize the good people out there that do their jobs correctly. Anyway I just thought I would put my two cents worth in. Hope I made some sense. :)
 
If the police departments were run by the Average Joe, then the left would have their say too. These are the people who want to take away police department funding, guns, tasers, mace, and batons... because they're all not needed when you arrest someone. They want a nicer, friendlier police department that writes loud noise tickets all day long.

Average Joe doesn't want to know what happens when an officer has to make an arrest and the suspect starts fighting. Average Joe doesn't want to hear that sometimes someone gets their butt kicked and there was no way around it. Average Joe doesn't want to believe that in a hostage situation, there are snipers waiting to pull the trigger, because there comes a time when killing is the only way to save people's lives. Average Joe doesn't know what it's like to see a single mother on welfare and on the street selling her body to support her 4 kids. Average Joe doesn't want to believe that his teenage kids take the bus every weekend from their suburban rich lifestyle into the ghetto to buy crack. Average Joe never hears about the thousands upon thousands of children and elderly people who commit suicide because they don't feel loved in this world. Average Joe never had to pull a disabled person out of their trailer when it caught fire, and then watch that person's soul die on the inside as they see all their posessions burn.

Average Joe lives in a dream world, and Average Joe doesn't have a place in running a police department.

Just in case anyone was wondering this right here is the source of the infamous "us" vs "them" problem. Average Joe in all his slobbish glory is getting a little tired of people who think their blue collar job makes them superior, when Joe's blue collar job keeps the country running too. You dont get to whine about how hard your job is when you chose to work it. If it is so very taxing on your soul that you need to be a jerk to the entire population of this world maybe you should consider a much less stressfull occupation as a fry cook, im pretty sure your qualified.
 
Just in case anyone was wondering this right here is the source of the infamous "us" vs "them" problem. Average Joe in all his slobbish glory is getting a little tired of people who think their blue collar job makes them superior, when Joe's blue collar job keeps the country running too. You dont get to whine about how hard your job is when you chose to work it. If it is so very taxing on your soul that you need to be a jerk to the entire population of this world maybe you should consider a much less stressfull occupation as a fry cook, im pretty sure your qualified.

It's the same thing we see when the civilian population attempts to dictate military policy based off ethics and morals... nobody's "good" morals involves saying "it's alright to go into a coutry and kill people," but we do it anyway for many reasons, whether it's against a fascist dictator like Hitler, or against the evil called Communism, or if it's to overthrow a mad-man that's hell bent on bringing terror to the world.

Same with a police department and it's administration. My example wasn't to demean Average Joe's position in society. It was merely meant to point out that not everyone has the correct opinion on how givernment agencies are supposed to be run.

A perfect example is AR rifles in a squad car. There are alot of people in this world who say that having an AR15 in a police car makes the police force look mean, intimidating, militant, and the weapon is unnecessary. But the fact is that these weapons have saved lives.

Yeager, even you have to admit that there are people in this world that are too nice and innocent, and live in a dream world where guns and drugs and crime doesn't exist. I don't believe anyone on this forum fits into this category, because the fact is we are gun owners, and we own guns for a reason. But they do exist. Open your eyes a little.
 
Step By Step

Step By Step

Sir Mister White--

I'm absolutely sure the good cops are in the majority. I've just never met one of the good cops. Maybe there's a reason for that. I can't, though, imagine what that reason might be.
Because my butt always looks like it has tire tracks on it whenever I've been gone through with, after the cops have done with me.
Let's face it. The power's all on the side of the cop. It doesn't matter what, if anything I've done. If the cop wants to bust me, I'm busted. If the gallant law officer is pissed, if he's just bored, I'm going DOWN. Got a problem? Tell it to the judge, several thousand dollars later.
There's a unique identifier. Sure, but if the cop , in his wisdom, thinks I deserve a good scare, he can choose to write me up, or not.
Should he indeed write me up, the cop can choose whether or not he'll show up to court... and if he shows up, what he'll say there. Who's to argue with the cop? His word against mine... some schmoe. Only he is describing the occurrance. It's not like the Court is going to believe me, some guy off the street. When the warrant is issued in My Name, then I'm the BAD GUY when I don't show up. When the cop doesn't show up, Johnny Law faces no penalty.
How does my salary/wage compare to the lawyers'? They spend all day in court, screwing over The Little Guy. By definition, me, The Little Guy loses money when it comes down to litigation. I make my living from a real job, My presence in court is something different from an entry on a time-card. If I'm in court, I'm not on the clock.
So, it doesn't matter if what the cop says is true or not. His word is presumed to be legally accurate. Me, anything I say can & will be used against me.
And if the cop kicks the ???? out of me, or if he feels up my girlfriend... I have no recourse. That complaint form on the counter may be illusory comfort... but it's the only comfort I can ever hope for. When the cop transgresses, he has a union and a culture of "protect the thin blue line". Me, I'm thankful if I don't also have an emergency room bill.



I'm confused as to what the problem is here. Is the issue that some departments don't have a pad of complaint forms in the lobby for people to come in and use?

If someone wants to file a complaint about a private citizen's actions, they have to talk to an officer. Why would they expect it be any different if they want to file a complaint about an officer?

In most places when someone contacts the police for just about any purpose, an incident is created in the computer system and it is assigned a unique number. The officer or telecommincator enters the name, and identifiers (address, phone number etc.) of the complainant and a brief synopsis of the problem.

Then the officer talks to the complainant about the complaint, determines if a crime has in fact been committed, refers him to the correct agency if it's not a police matter, at that point the incident is closed with a statement saying why it was closed, unfounded, referred to other agency etc. If the complainant has a valid complaint about a criminal matter the officer assists him with preparing a statement if necessary and opens a case. The case is assigned a unique number. Then depending on the department, it's either assigned to an investigator from the proper department (to include internal affiars if the agency has such a unit) or the officer who took the complaint conducts the follow up.

I don't know why the TV station that did this expose' feels that there is something wrong with that process. If you really feel that the subject is too sensitive to speak to an officer about, you can always make an appointment to speak with the chief of police or call the public responsibility unit of the state police.

Why should police departmens be expected to just hand out blank complaint forms?

Jeff
 
Jeff I have a hard time believing that you have had all these bad leo contacts and you were innocent every time. Come one something is not right here. You sound like many people who blame the police for picking on them after they are caught breaking the law. I have only met 1 bad cop he was arrested for sexual assualt.
Pat
 
Too many stupid laws and police officers being used as revenuers by issuing tickets with ridiculous fines which then put the people at odds with the police. Just last week a cop in Broward county Fl was runover and killed while citing somone. Median income in Fl is around 31,000 a year a ticket for a stop light is 185 (I got one), a ticket for 5 over the speed limit is 153(my neighbor got one). Why are fines for driving 30 percent of median weekly takehome pay. My neighbor is a retired Floridian he ain't rich and I'm a blue collar worker. I wish the guy that issued me my ticket would have been run over. Then I could go to court and get it dismissed.

Unfortunately the congressman's daughter was killed in a car accident and now every year since his election ticket prices go up and up and up. Since he is:

A. rich
B. a congressman he won't get any tickets

His name is Irv Slosberg I hate this son of a bitch with a passion.
 
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Well that may be a little chicken crap to pull but if you break the law you should expect to pay the price. Don't like the law contact your congressman and get it changed.
Pat
 
Mr. 355sigfan

Sir--

I think you may be misreading what I wrote. That's my fault. I failed to communicate clearly.
 
lwaldron said:
Sir--

I think you may be misreading what I wrote. That's my fault. I failed to communicate clearly.
Atta boy!
They love it when you say "sir" and back down!

...Though I suspect 355sigfan is actually one of the good guys, too decent and honest to comprehend there are more than maybe four or five bad police officers in the whole country.

Most LEOs are good, decent, helpful people, though the job tends to distance them -- see the (unintentionally?) disparaging remarks about "Joe Average" above -- and to influence their opinions about the goodness and honesty of the typical citizen.

But for some LEOs, that "distance" becomes suspicion and contempt of all non-police. Other LEOs are simply brutes and bullies, who have gravitated to a line of work where those traits may be -- with a little discrection -- indulged. Those men hide behind the same "thin blue line" that protects and supports the good officers.

To criticize bad polcemen is not the same as criticizing all policemen.

--Herself
 
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the (unintentionally?) disparaging remarks about "Joe Average" above

Disparaging because they're true, perhaps? People who are not cops or don't want to be cops plainly don't understand the politics involed in being part of a brotherhood. My proof is the comments about how people hate cops because of the tickets they receive for violating the law! Someone even said they wished the cop would get run over so he could get out of a $85 ticket!

The truth hurts, doesn't it? And the truth is comments like the ones I'm seeing that are meant to bash the officers that help keep your butts safe at night are what seperate police from "Joe Average."

Lets turn this around, shall we? You say you know alot of jerk cops and maybe a few nice ones? Fine. I know alot of jerk civilians. Not all civilians are jerks, but there sure are alot.
Maybe someone will start a "civilian watchdog" program.....:rolleyes:
 
I said 185 not 85 that would be 15 percent of take home and not 30 percent.


Here is amendment 7 of that worthless piece of literature known as the Bill of Rights


Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.


I'd call 30% of the median state pay for the week excessive. But hey your a cop you'll never get any kind of ticket so why would you care.

Next question why is this officer handing fines out to law abiding citizens instead of enforcing the multiple quality of life issues we report to the police week in and week out. To the point that all my neighbors have exchanged phone numbers and will now call each other before 911.

"Just cause it's the law doesn't mean it's right boss"


Oh and for every instance an officer actually has prevented a crime I'm sure there are a hundred other instances where they show up after the fact and write a report so in reality we don't need hundreds of revenuers writing tickets on the payroll. We just need people to investigate the unsolved crimes and citizen's to take respoonsibility for their own safety. I don't need the police I have a gun.
 
This thread long ago reached the low level of most-cops-are-bad vs. most-cops-are-good discourse that I expected.

Now we have reached the final threshhold of silliness:
I don't need the police I have a gun.
Good luck with that.
 
"Police by nature are a para military organization. Thats the way it is and always has been. Sounds like your crying for nothing.
Pat"

Nope. Posse comitatus.

Soldiers can't be police. Police are not soldiers. They're civilians with a job. When they start thinking otherwise, that's when you run into trouble.
 
My how the thread has drifted, from an expose' about filing complaints against an officer to the morality of traffic laws....:uhoh:

lwaldron said,

I'm absolutely sure the good cops are in the majority. I've just never met one of the good cops. Maybe there's a reason for that. I can't, though, imagine what that reason might be.
Because my butt always looks like it has tire tracks on it whenever I've been gone through with, after the cops have done with me.

I don't know you, and I don't know what trouble with the law you've had, but it's been my experience that most of our regular customers usually bring attention to themselves.

Take the last person I arrested for driving while suspended. It was about an hour after dark, and a pickup went past me pulling a trailer. The trailer had no lights burning. So I pulled the truck/trailer combination over, intending to help the driver get his lights working so that he wasn't involved in an accident. As I walked past the tongue of the trailer, I noticed that the cable for the trailer lights was wrapped around the tongue of the trailer and no attempt had been made to hook up the lights. I thought, well maybe I'll write a citation instead of a warning, this guy had no intention of hooking up the lights. I looked down and noticed that there were passenger plates on the pickup and they were expired.....So I walked up to the driver's window and asked to see his license, proof of insurance and registration. "I don't have any" he said. "Any what?" I asked. "License, insurance or registration?" he replied; "none of them" "You don't have them with you or you don't have them?" I asked. "I don't have them" he replied. "Are you suspended or revoked?" I asked. "Suspended, but I get my license back in 24 days" he replied. "Not now" I replied. "Man, I'm only 1/4 mile from home." he said. "Why didn't you hook your trailer lights up?" I asked. "I would never have even paid any attention to you if the lights had been lit." "Well, I was in a hurry and just didn't think I'd need them" he said.

That's a pretty good example of how the regular customers sometimes get the attitude that we are out to get them. They just keep doing things to draw attention to themselves. I'm sure the guy thinks I was out to leave tire tracks across his back. But in truth, if he had taken two minutes to hook his lights up, no one would have paid any attention to him. Although it probably wouldn't have taken too long for someone to notice passenger plates on his truck and pull him over for that, then the whole process would start again.

And I'll bet when he tells all his friends about how the man conspires to keep a brother down that he leaves the part about the open title to the truck (which is a felony charge) that was with his papers and that I just ignored....

Let's face it. The power's all on the side of the cop. It doesn't matter what, if anything I've done. If the cop wants to bust me, I'm busted. If the gallant law officer is pissed, if he's just bored, I'm going DOWN. Got a problem? Tell it to the judge, several thousand dollars later.

Are you saying that you never violated the law and the officer just made violations up? Or did you do something that you felt shouldn't have been against the law? Around here the courts still require us to prove you guilty. Isn't it that way where you're at?

Should he indeed write me up, the cop can choose whether or not he'll show up to court... and if he shows up, what he'll say there. Who's to argue with the cop? His word against mine... some schmoe. Only he is describing the occurrance. It's not like the Court is going to believe me, some guy off the street. When the warrant is issued in My Name, then I'm the BAD GUY when I don't show up. When the cop doesn't show up, Johnny Law faces no penalty.

That's odd, the last subpeona I received said it was an order to appear. Where are you at that you aren't allowed to present a defense?

How does my salary/wage compare to the lawyers'? They spend all day in court, screwing over The Little Guy. By definition, me, The Little Guy loses money when it comes down to litigation. I make my living from a real job, My presence in court is something different from an entry on a time-card. If I'm in court, I'm not on the clock.

Wouldn't the solution be not to do things that are against the law?

So, it doesn't matter if what the cop says is true or not. His word is presumed to be legally accurate. Me, anything I say can & will be used against me.

The police lose in court. Often a case doesn't even make it to court because the states attorney doesn't think it's strong enough.

And if the cop kicks the ???? out of me, or if he feels up my girlfriend... I have no recourse. That complaint form on the counter may be illusory comfort... but it's the only comfort I can ever hope for.

I don't know of any agency that would refuse to hear a complaint against an officer. Or refuse to action on one that is substantiated.

When the cop transgresses, he has a union and a culture of "protect the thin blue line".

So you would deny the police any kind of defense? I don't think there would be many on the job, considering the number of complaints that are filed. Perhpas I should have been fired for writing those parking tickets that day or my friend fired for spilling coffee on his pants?

Jeff
 
I think this story shows some poor leadership on the part of some south Florida LE departments. The officers were acting excatly how they were trained, which is how to handle criminals in the street and not civilians in an office setting. Could you imagine going to the DMV, power company, post office, or etc. and receiving the same treatment (i.e. threatend with gun) for asking for a non-existent form in an annoying manner? Those officers should have been trained to deal with civilians in a manner more condusive to a customer relations perspective. I put this blame squarely on the leadership and not on the individual officers. I would be willing to bet that all of those officers have had ample time on the range, defensive/offensive driving coureses, and hand to hand combat training within the last few years but most likely no courses on how to deal with civilians in a customer realtions environment. If departments put officers in roles which require them to act in a manner outside of thier usual duties then they need to be trained accordingly or incidents like this will take place.
 
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