Car Knocker
Member
Just out of curiosity, do you advocate the same methods of punisment for female sex offenders that have sex with underage boys? Broomstick and all?
Cops: Man Admits Killing Child Molesters
- Thread starter rick_reno
- Start date
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It depends on consensuality. Rapists should die regardless of gender. But if you're trying to draw a comparison between forcing an organ into an unwilling child and consensual sex between an older woman and an underage boy, I'm not buying it. The broomstick is the GP's solution. All we need to do is start throwing them in GP and letting the problem take care of itself.
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A couple things...
I find it very disturbing that anyone would, in any way, even say something that resembled a plea for the legal rights to privacy for a person found guilty of something as depraved and injurious as rape, regardless of age of victim in said crime. I fully support the publishing of addresses and workplaces of convicted sex offenders.
Now, to encourage or even verbally support the act of cold-blooded murder is walking a line as well. It certainly doesn't leave people new to this board with a good feeling. Think about the premise of this board. I'm not preaching, all I'm saying is that, even if it is your opinion that rapists and child molesters deserve no less than death, you may be doing more harm than good to the cause at large (i.e. 2A rights, proving that gun owners aren't bloodthirsty whackos, etc.).
Having said that, I still fully acknowledge your right to express yourself and won't say that you cannot. Just suggesting we look at the big picture.
I find it very disturbing that anyone would, in any way, even say something that resembled a plea for the legal rights to privacy for a person found guilty of something as depraved and injurious as rape, regardless of age of victim in said crime. I fully support the publishing of addresses and workplaces of convicted sex offenders.
Now, to encourage or even verbally support the act of cold-blooded murder is walking a line as well. It certainly doesn't leave people new to this board with a good feeling. Think about the premise of this board. I'm not preaching, all I'm saying is that, even if it is your opinion that rapists and child molesters deserve no less than death, you may be doing more harm than good to the cause at large (i.e. 2A rights, proving that gun owners aren't bloodthirsty whackos, etc.).
Having said that, I still fully acknowledge your right to express yourself and won't say that you cannot. Just suggesting we look at the big picture.
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chaim
Member
I mostly agree with you (I'm not really pro-vigilante though).
For the past month I've been working in a psychiatric hospital and I've already seen a lot of things. Even though I don't primarily work in this area, I've seen what was left of some people who were attacked by evil men who felt it ok to rape children. I've seen what rape can do to an adult woman's mind (both patients' and friends'). For someone who goes to these extremes, death by shooting is much too light a result. However, we are a nation of laws and you and I do not have the right to go out and take matters into our own hands. If the laws are too light for these things (and they are) we need to be writing our state representatives and working to strengthen the laws against these kinds of crimes. This guy who shot these men, while on a purely emotional level it may be understandable, is a criminal and he deserves to be treated as such. Now, if it was a family member of a victim I'd feel completely differently (charge him and find a way to let him off easy).
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mohican
Member
and no, I'm not a bleeding heart type of person
as for the fourth admendment, and rights, aren't rights for citizens? I would imagine a level 3 would be a felony, and that would mean that the guilty parties could not vote, own a gun, etc unless they had their rights "restored". (which another topic)
If a ex con found guilty of a felony can no longer exercise 2nd admendment rights, should they have a right to privacy under the 4th? When you let people out of jail and back into society, supposedly having paid their debt and been rehabilitated, why not have full rights? In theory, these people will get jobs, pay taxes, contribute to society again (at least as much as liberal college proffesors
) but they have no legal means of representing themselves by voting (except in Florida, Chicago, etc 
) or defending themselves.
My question for the legal system is why do we turn people out without a reasonable expectation that their punishment will deter them from a repeat performance? The pervert list on the internet is usefull, but wouldn't it be better to just keep them locked away? Wouldn't that example be a more effective deterrent? If as a judge you know a person is so bad that you don't want within 500 yards, 1/2 mile, mile, etc of a day care facility, school, church, etc then why in the hell are you letting them out?
as for the fourth admendment, and rights, aren't rights for citizens? I would imagine a level 3 would be a felony, and that would mean that the guilty parties could not vote, own a gun, etc unless they had their rights "restored". (which another topic)
If a ex con found guilty of a felony can no longer exercise 2nd admendment rights, should they have a right to privacy under the 4th? When you let people out of jail and back into society, supposedly having paid their debt and been rehabilitated, why not have full rights? In theory, these people will get jobs, pay taxes, contribute to society again (at least as much as liberal college proffesors
) but they have no legal means of representing themselves by voting (except in Florida, Chicago, etc ) or defending themselves. My question for the legal system is why do we turn people out without a reasonable expectation that their punishment will deter them from a repeat performance? The pervert list on the internet is usefull, but wouldn't it be better to just keep them locked away? Wouldn't that example be a more effective deterrent? If as a judge you know a person is so bad that you don't want within 500 yards, 1/2 mile, mile, etc of a day care facility, school, church, etc then why in the hell are you letting them out?
Fletchette
Member
Ok, how about a plea for the legal rights of yourself? How we, as a society, run our justice system affects all of us. Equal rights, due process, pricacy, etc. were all agreed upon in the Constitution long ago. If you feel that it is ok for us to suddenly treat a section of society as if they do not have these rights, you will be amazed at how fast you will find somebody else trying to make you second class citizen.
Laws apply to everyone. I say we should have fair laws.
Thin Black Line
Member
Quite frankly I'm surprised this sort of thing doesn't happen more often.
There are a lot of frustrated parents out there who've seen perps get
off on a technicality, or even if the guy got jail time he only serves 2-4
years. Meanwhile, their kid has all sorts of behavior problems, depression,
sometimes suicidal, turns to drug use as a teen, etc. They all say to
themselves "If X hadn't done that to them, my little girl/boy would be
doing well in school and be happy with her/his life."
I remember a case years back when someone killed a relative and then
killed themself. The general public didn't have a clue why, but there
had been allegations of sexual abuse against the older relative when
the guy was a kid. There wasn't enough evidence to take it to court
at the time. So 10 years later the pain builds up in this kid and he snaps.
Yeah, I'm very surprised someone doesn't "get medieval" more often.....
There are a lot of frustrated parents out there who've seen perps get
off on a technicality, or even if the guy got jail time he only serves 2-4
years. Meanwhile, their kid has all sorts of behavior problems, depression,
sometimes suicidal, turns to drug use as a teen, etc. They all say to
themselves "If X hadn't done that to them, my little girl/boy would be
doing well in school and be happy with her/his life."
I remember a case years back when someone killed a relative and then
killed themself. The general public didn't have a clue why, but there
had been allegations of sexual abuse against the older relative when
the guy was a kid. There wasn't enough evidence to take it to court
at the time. So 10 years later the pain builds up in this kid and he snaps.
Yeah, I'm very surprised someone doesn't "get medieval" more often.....
cracked butt
Member
Sounds like he did what the courts didn't have the courage to do.
Fletchette,
That's mostly a fair point. On the other hand, it is also fair to point out that when you say:
"If you feel that it is ok for us to suddenly treat a section of society as if they do not have these rights, you will be amazed at how fast you will find somebody else trying to make you second class citizen."
you are implementing in your argument the logical fallacy of the "slippery slope". I realize that might be a little academic given that the topic at hand is, at its foundation, emotionally charged but it's worthy of mention nonetheless.
I realize that in at least one sense (being a gun owner) I am one of a minority that is exercising my 2A right that others think I should not have. Please don't think that I have missed the irony in my own precarious aforementioned position. I do. I am, however, a law abiding citizen and as such, am granted that right. A level III sex offender has been found by a court of law to not be a law abiding citizen. If an individual doesn't behave as if the rules of our society apply to their actions, why should those same rules become applicable to their protection?
That's mostly a fair point. On the other hand, it is also fair to point out that when you say:
"If you feel that it is ok for us to suddenly treat a section of society as if they do not have these rights, you will be amazed at how fast you will find somebody else trying to make you second class citizen."
you are implementing in your argument the logical fallacy of the "slippery slope". I realize that might be a little academic given that the topic at hand is, at its foundation, emotionally charged but it's worthy of mention nonetheless.
I realize that in at least one sense (being a gun owner) I am one of a minority that is exercising my 2A right that others think I should not have. Please don't think that I have missed the irony in my own precarious aforementioned position. I do. I am, however, a law abiding citizen and as such, am granted that right. A level III sex offender has been found by a court of law to not be a law abiding citizen. If an individual doesn't behave as if the rules of our society apply to their actions, why should those same rules become applicable to their protection?
Sorry to rant but...
Keep in mind that what rapists and/or child molesters do with their privacy is force themselves upon their victims. That is to say, a crime such as rape or child molestation is very unlikely to happen at a densely inhabited grocery store in the middle of the day. As such, these criminals should no longer be afforded absolute privacy because they have shown a distinct and irrefutable inability to behave correctly in private. Anonymity and privacy are dangerous weapons in the hands of a child molester or rapist.
On the topic of rehabilitation:
Would you be comfortable with having your children babysat by a known child molester? Are you willing to risk your childrens' safety on the gamble of that molesters rehabilitation? No? How about having a known rapist plumber in your home alone with you (if you're female) or your wife/gf (if you're male)? No? Then why should people have to gamble with living right next store to one and not know it? I'm not saying that rehab is impossible, I'm saying there is a HUGE risk taken if we just let criminals like that out and let them slip into the shadows without tracking them. If you truly believe in rehabilitation, by all means, feel free to risk your safety and the safety of your children. Just please don't expect others to do the same.
Ok, I'm done. Thanks for reading. Sorry if you felt like time reading this was time wasted.
Keep in mind that what rapists and/or child molesters do with their privacy is force themselves upon their victims. That is to say, a crime such as rape or child molestation is very unlikely to happen at a densely inhabited grocery store in the middle of the day. As such, these criminals should no longer be afforded absolute privacy because they have shown a distinct and irrefutable inability to behave correctly in private. Anonymity and privacy are dangerous weapons in the hands of a child molester or rapist.
On the topic of rehabilitation:
Would you be comfortable with having your children babysat by a known child molester? Are you willing to risk your childrens' safety on the gamble of that molesters rehabilitation? No? How about having a known rapist plumber in your home alone with you (if you're female) or your wife/gf (if you're male)? No? Then why should people have to gamble with living right next store to one and not know it? I'm not saying that rehab is impossible, I'm saying there is a HUGE risk taken if we just let criminals like that out and let them slip into the shadows without tracking them. If you truly believe in rehabilitation, by all means, feel free to risk your safety and the safety of your children. Just please don't expect others to do the same.
Ok, I'm done. Thanks for reading. Sorry if you felt like time reading this was time wasted.
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Fletchette
Member
A Cleaner,
No need to apologize, this is the place to rant
With regards to:
True, but I believe the "slippery slope" arguement to be valid.
First, a little bit of subtle distinction; you are not granted your rights by the govenrment, you are endowed them by the Creator.
Second, the law should apply equally to criminals and law-abiding alike (equal rights) If someone is convicted of a crime, then they should be punished, once.
Like it or not we all must take some risk, it is called "life". Letting a plumber in your house, conviction or not, entails risk. Arm yourself. Do not complain to the government that you cannot walk naked through life and enjoy a risk-free existence.
We shouldn't have "lists" of people. Making a society of outcasts simply does not lead to good things. Yes, some people commit crimes and are too dangerous to be in society - lock them up! Execute them! but do not create a caste society that will ultimately bring us all down.
No need to apologize, this is the place to rant
With regards to:
True, but I believe the "slippery slope" arguement to be valid.
First, a little bit of subtle distinction; you are not granted your rights by the govenrment, you are endowed them by the Creator.
Second, the law should apply equally to criminals and law-abiding alike (equal rights) If someone is convicted of a crime, then they should be punished, once.
Like it or not we all must take some risk, it is called "life". Letting a plumber in your house, conviction or not, entails risk. Arm yourself. Do not complain to the government that you cannot walk naked through life and enjoy a risk-free existence.
We shouldn't have "lists" of people. Making a society of outcasts simply does not lead to good things. Yes, some people commit crimes and are too dangerous to be in society - lock them up! Execute them! but do not create a caste society that will ultimately bring us all down.
jefnvk
Member
I have said before, if it were a parent or the actual victum, or some other family member, this would be quite different. But he just picked a few names at random.
Working Man
Member
Not sure if anyone brought up this point or not but I do believe it is a
violation of their probation for felons of like crimes to be in association (meet
independently and with out supervision ie: LEO or authorized treatment
personnel) let alone reside in the same private habitat.
Probation for this sort of thing is usually rather lengthy so I question if they
may have been already showing a disregard for the law (a character issue)
and even perhaps something a bit more sinister. Perhaps a roommate that will
help hide another crime. The idea that they met in prison or group then
waited till after probation is possible but not probable.
I don't think I want them to be able to congregate, we have all seen how
a pack mentality can be created when criminals get together. This type
of crime in deeply rooted in them and I believe can never be cured and
so do many mental health professionals.
I am not comenting on the shooting of these two Child Molesters, just
questioning their living together, motives and all.
violation of their probation for felons of like crimes to be in association (meet
independently and with out supervision ie: LEO or authorized treatment
personnel) let alone reside in the same private habitat.
Probation for this sort of thing is usually rather lengthy so I question if they
may have been already showing a disregard for the law (a character issue)
and even perhaps something a bit more sinister. Perhaps a roommate that will
help hide another crime. The idea that they met in prison or group then
waited till after probation is possible but not probable.
I don't think I want them to be able to congregate, we have all seen how
a pack mentality can be created when criminals get together. This type
of crime in deeply rooted in them and I believe can never be cured and
so do many mental health professionals.
I am not comenting on the shooting of these two Child Molesters, just
questioning their living together, motives and all.
1911 guy
Member
My thoughts
First, I think we can all agree that if he indeed picked names at random and whacked these guys there is a resious issue of this man's mental stability. There may be, and likely are, other facts we don't know so we'll stick to what we do know. He was wrong.
Point two is that there seems to be a concensus that the lists (never looked at them personally) differentiate between the 19 year old with a 17 year old G.F. and the pedophile. As a father, if I'm going to move any time soon I'm going to look at these lists and see what my potential new home has living in the area. I have a right to know what I'm buying into neighborhood wise, they lost that protection when they chose to do these things. Say what you want about the civil rights situation, we all know the rules. If you commit a felony you are not afforded some of the protections/rights that others enjoy. Easy answer: Keep your nose clean. Yeah, there might be a day when a particular situation arises and I find the need to do something, but I go into that knowing the ramifications. No whining.
So, after all that, yeah, he was wrong, but I find it hard to muster tears for these two. Do I want the lists? You bet. Am I concerned that someone might get their feelings hurt because they are on that list? No. Is the system perfect? Absolutely not. But let's better it, not hamstring folks who want to be informed about their surroundings. If I have to choose between your rights and warm and fuzzies and the safety of my family, you lose. Badly.
First, I think we can all agree that if he indeed picked names at random and whacked these guys there is a resious issue of this man's mental stability. There may be, and likely are, other facts we don't know so we'll stick to what we do know. He was wrong.
Point two is that there seems to be a concensus that the lists (never looked at them personally) differentiate between the 19 year old with a 17 year old G.F. and the pedophile. As a father, if I'm going to move any time soon I'm going to look at these lists and see what my potential new home has living in the area. I have a right to know what I'm buying into neighborhood wise, they lost that protection when they chose to do these things. Say what you want about the civil rights situation, we all know the rules. If you commit a felony you are not afforded some of the protections/rights that others enjoy. Easy answer: Keep your nose clean. Yeah, there might be a day when a particular situation arises and I find the need to do something, but I go into that knowing the ramifications. No whining.
So, after all that, yeah, he was wrong, but I find it hard to muster tears for these two. Do I want the lists? You bet. Am I concerned that someone might get their feelings hurt because they are on that list? No. Is the system perfect? Absolutely not. But let's better it, not hamstring folks who want to be informed about their surroundings. If I have to choose between your rights and warm and fuzzies and the safety of my family, you lose. Badly.
ajax
Member
Did children every where a favor
While i agree with some things said in this thread I have to throw in my 2 cents. I have a daughter. I also believe in our system ,but it has flaws . If someone was caught with 28 grams of mary jane they would get more time in prison than they would for molesting someone l love. If any one doesnt believe this go google and find out for yourself. With this point made I ask anyone who calls himself a man to tell me you think these people have rights. Their right to life was gone the moment those scumbags touched the first child. We are supposed to protect our children so we rely on the system and the system has failed us again and again. More power to this man because their are now 2 less wolfs among the sheep. I point out that I have a daughter because unlike the parents of the children that those men molested I would be serving my prison sentence not joe blow. Death to child molesters and men of their ilk they deserve nothing less. When i think of a man touching a innocent defensless child to satisfy their sick desires i want to bury them up to their neck and go bush hogging. Its a twisted thing when you can get more time for theft and weak ???? like that than for molesting innocent children. Thats my two cents in a nut shell.
While i agree with some things said in this thread I have to throw in my 2 cents. I have a daughter. I also believe in our system ,but it has flaws . If someone was caught with 28 grams of mary jane they would get more time in prison than they would for molesting someone l love. If any one doesnt believe this go google and find out for yourself. With this point made I ask anyone who calls himself a man to tell me you think these people have rights. Their right to life was gone the moment those scumbags touched the first child. We are supposed to protect our children so we rely on the system and the system has failed us again and again. More power to this man because their are now 2 less wolfs among the sheep. I point out that I have a daughter because unlike the parents of the children that those men molested I would be serving my prison sentence not joe blow. Death to child molesters and men of their ilk they deserve nothing less. When i think of a man touching a innocent defensless child to satisfy their sick desires i want to bury them up to their neck and go bush hogging. Its a twisted thing when you can get more time for theft and weak ???? like that than for molesting innocent children. Thats my two cents in a nut shell.
Thin Black Line
Member
Yeah, sad to say I've seen police respond faster to an anonymous call
on crystal meth dealing and surround a house, but take their sweet
time to even call and interview the alleged perp in Child Sexual Abuse
investigation. And, omigosh, don't let them catch your teenager
smoking in the parking lot --they'll handcuff 'em and throw 'em in a
van faster than a bin laden family member can get a flight out of
the US.
Wanna know why this happens? Well, there's $$$ to be made off
of the forfeiture laws in regard to the illegal drugs and an easy fine
for little time invested on their part when it comes to the cigarettes.
No money to make of the child molesters.....
on crystal meth dealing and surround a house, but take their sweet
time to even call and interview the alleged perp in Child Sexual Abuse
investigation. And, omigosh, don't let them catch your teenager
smoking in the parking lot --they'll handcuff 'em and throw 'em in a
van faster than a bin laden family member can get a flight out of
the US.
Wanna know why this happens? Well, there's $$$ to be made off
of the forfeiture laws in regard to the illegal drugs and an easy fine
for little time invested on their part when it comes to the cigarettes.
No money to make of the child molesters.....
Fletchette
The slippery slope is bogus. They're child molesters. We're not talking about upstanding members of society. We're not even talking about drug addicts. We're talking about CHILD MOLESTERS. Is it IMPOSSIBLE to apply common sense to the law? Even if it is, it presents a clear and present danger to allow known child molesters to live unmarked among society's good people. The list is an effective way to at least somewhat curb this danger.
And the risk thing. WTH? MY head is still spinning. We all take risks, arm yourself and let the child molesters and rapists back among us? No. If you don't think you should be able to know if your neighbor or your plumber is a child molester or a violent rapist, you're stupid. I'm not using that word lightly or anything like that. You're stupid. Child rapists don't deserve the same rights as us.
The slippery slope is bogus. They're child molesters. We're not talking about upstanding members of society. We're not even talking about drug addicts. We're talking about CHILD MOLESTERS. Is it IMPOSSIBLE to apply common sense to the law? Even if it is, it presents a clear and present danger to allow known child molesters to live unmarked among society's good people. The list is an effective way to at least somewhat curb this danger.
And the risk thing. WTH? MY head is still spinning. We all take risks, arm yourself and let the child molesters and rapists back among us? No. If you don't think you should be able to know if your neighbor or your plumber is a child molester or a violent rapist, you're stupid. I'm not using that word lightly or anything like that. You're stupid. Child rapists don't deserve the same rights as us.
***
Are people actually suggesting that there shouldn't be a sex offender list that people shouldn't have to register with. SCREW THAT. In Illinois it differentiates between simple statch and "Aggravated sexual assault." It even specifies age to an extant. Victim <13 or Victim 13-17. There's even a "Sexual Predator" label for the really bad people. Human rights have a limit, and that limit is reached when you FORCE sex on a little kid. They should get capital punsihment, I would pay to throw the switch. Or take away the laws protecting them in prison. Throw them in with the GP and let them get raped to death with a broomstick. If their rights have to be infringed so that MY kids can be safe and not get raped, then so be it. Do people really think that baby rapists should be allowed to go free, just because their probation is over, slip back into society, nobody knows what they are? They're scumbags. I'm very close with someone who was raped 12 years ago as a 6 year old child. That STAYS with the victim. It never goes away. They're never the same. The life is destroyed. These people do not deserve to be allowed back into society. And by the way a jury of peers would be impossible. You can't get liquified horse feces to serve on a jury. And other than other baby rapists, the horse feces is the only equal. Wait, that's too mean for the feces. It never forced sex on a child. It never destroyed a life. Yet if you presented horse feces to anybody involved in this conversation, you would get a disgusted response. If you presented a child molester who had finished probation to the same people, some people would complain about the label you gave him and say his rights were being infringed. THEY RAPE CHILDREN. What is wrong with you people? They should have it branded into their forehead. They are dangerous to children. The list isn't punishment, it's precaution. It helps ensure more children don't get molested. Oh, and jefnvk, beautiful comparison. I was a drug user for many years. I'm clean now, in college, making good grades, and a contributing member to society. I've never raped a child, or anyone for that matter. I've never destroyed lives, stolen innocence. The only person I hurt was myself. THERE'S NO PARALLEL. Anybody who sticks up for the rights of a child molester is a disgusting human being. Oh and btw, I'm all for the killing of rapists as well as child molesters. I can't even believe the audacity of some people. What if it was your kid who got raped? Think for a minute. You want that child molester back on the street living in anonymity? Or are you just looking for a cause to cry "foul?" It makes me sick that anyone can stand up for the rights of a child rapist for any reason. The minute you force sex on a child you forfeit all rights as a human being.
Yes I posted this once and it got deleted. So I nicened up the language. Child molesters and people who would stand up for their rights disgust me more than ANYTHING. And I do not have a weak stomach. People like I just mentioned make me friggin NAUSEAS
Are people actually suggesting that there shouldn't be a sex offender list that people shouldn't have to register with. SCREW THAT. In Illinois it differentiates between simple statch and "Aggravated sexual assault." It even specifies age to an extant. Victim <13 or Victim 13-17. There's even a "Sexual Predator" label for the really bad people. Human rights have a limit, and that limit is reached when you FORCE sex on a little kid. They should get capital punsihment, I would pay to throw the switch. Or take away the laws protecting them in prison. Throw them in with the GP and let them get raped to death with a broomstick. If their rights have to be infringed so that MY kids can be safe and not get raped, then so be it. Do people really think that baby rapists should be allowed to go free, just because their probation is over, slip back into society, nobody knows what they are? They're scumbags. I'm very close with someone who was raped 12 years ago as a 6 year old child. That STAYS with the victim. It never goes away. They're never the same. The life is destroyed. These people do not deserve to be allowed back into society. And by the way a jury of peers would be impossible. You can't get liquified horse feces to serve on a jury. And other than other baby rapists, the horse feces is the only equal. Wait, that's too mean for the feces. It never forced sex on a child. It never destroyed a life. Yet if you presented horse feces to anybody involved in this conversation, you would get a disgusted response. If you presented a child molester who had finished probation to the same people, some people would complain about the label you gave him and say his rights were being infringed. THEY RAPE CHILDREN. What is wrong with you people? They should have it branded into their forehead. They are dangerous to children. The list isn't punishment, it's precaution. It helps ensure more children don't get molested. Oh, and jefnvk, beautiful comparison. I was a drug user for many years. I'm clean now, in college, making good grades, and a contributing member to society. I've never raped a child, or anyone for that matter. I've never destroyed lives, stolen innocence. The only person I hurt was myself. THERE'S NO PARALLEL. Anybody who sticks up for the rights of a child molester is a disgusting human being. Oh and btw, I'm all for the killing of rapists as well as child molesters. I can't even believe the audacity of some people. What if it was your kid who got raped? Think for a minute. You want that child molester back on the street living in anonymity? Or are you just looking for a cause to cry "foul?" It makes me sick that anyone can stand up for the rights of a child rapist for any reason. The minute you force sex on a child you forfeit all rights as a human being.
Yes I posted this once and it got deleted. So I nicened up the language. Child molesters and people who would stand up for their rights disgust me more than ANYTHING. And I do not have a weak stomach. People like I just mentioned make me friggin NAUSEAS
jefnvk
Member
There shouldn't. Do we have a theif registry? How about a convicted murder registry? A drug user registry? The ones that are bad (rapists) should get locked away for a long time. The ones that did little things (public urination) should get their slap on the wrist, and get on with their life.
Good for you. The fact remains. What if I thought that drug users should be dealt the death penalty, the same way you feel that any sex offender should be. That IS NOT the law. I do not have the right to make that decision that they should all die. Me killing off convicted drug users is no different than you killin goff convicted sex offenders.
And I am quite suprised at how many 'its for the children' arguments I am hearing here
Fletchette
Member
Ugh.
Emotions cloud sound judgement, and there is a hell of a lot of emotion here.
From 1911guy:
Nope. No consensus. Go read Lonnie Wilson's post again.
...and what will you say when they start publishing lists of gunowners? Many people consider them to be virtual criminals, ya know. How about publishing those arrested on vandalism? That could affect your precious property values.
From Ajax:
While I do not know how old your daughter is, would you advocate killing a guy she consensually dates when she becomes a teenager? I do not doubt that you love your child, but children grow up.
From Thin Black Line:
This is more of an indictment on the "War on (some) Drugs".
From Logjon:
Are you sure we are talking about child molesters? People in this very thread have given examples of people they know personally who were put on the sex offender lists for stupid things like urinating off a balcony and mooning a group of cheerleaders. Did you even bother to read these?!?
As for the level of my intelligence, I will decline to debate.
Civilization is based on law and order. You do not get to murder people because you think they deserve it. A jury decides that. If you do not like the way the law is currently working, you have an obligation and duty to change it, not to sit back, complain, and encourage others that may be reading this to go murder people.
Emotions cloud sound judgement, and there is a hell of a lot of emotion here.
From 1911guy:
Nope. No consensus. Go read Lonnie Wilson's post again.
...and what will you say when they start publishing lists of gunowners? Many people consider them to be virtual criminals, ya know. How about publishing those arrested on vandalism? That could affect your precious property values.
From Ajax:
While I do not know how old your daughter is, would you advocate killing a guy she consensually dates when she becomes a teenager? I do not doubt that you love your child, but children grow up.
From Thin Black Line:
This is more of an indictment on the "War on (some) Drugs".
From Logjon:
and
Are you sure we are talking about child molesters? People in this very thread have given examples of people they know personally who were put on the sex offender lists for stupid things like urinating off a balcony and mooning a group of cheerleaders. Did you even bother to read these?!?
As for the level of my intelligence, I will decline to debate.
Civilization is based on law and order. You do not get to murder people because you think they deserve it. A jury decides that. If you do not like the way the law is currently working, you have an obligation and duty to change it, not to sit back, complain, and encourage others that may be reading this to go murder people.
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Certain rights are and should be forfeited for certain crimes committed. Furthermore, keep in mind that while equality sounds ideal, we are not the SAME, as there are far more of us that do not rape women or molest childeren than those that do.
I'm done posting on this topic, although I'm sure I'll continue to read it until it dies down or is locked. My final comment, without rhetoric is this: The list is a good thing. It informs everyone around these criminals to be on guard. This information is no less relevant to neighbors of a rapist or pedophile than a criminal history report is to a potential employer. It allows law abiding citizens to make informed decisions about our safety. I would never ask for a guarantee from someone else to keep my loved ones safe but I demand the information I need to guarantee their safety myself. Thanks to those who disagreed intellligently. More so, thanks to everyone who agrees with the list and their comments in support of it. May it remain intact always.
I'm done posting on this topic, although I'm sure I'll continue to read it until it dies down or is locked. My final comment, without rhetoric is this: The list is a good thing. It informs everyone around these criminals to be on guard. This information is no less relevant to neighbors of a rapist or pedophile than a criminal history report is to a potential employer. It allows law abiding citizens to make informed decisions about our safety. I would never ask for a guarantee from someone else to keep my loved ones safe but I demand the information I need to guarantee their safety myself. Thanks to those who disagreed intellligently. More so, thanks to everyone who agrees with the list and their comments in support of it. May it remain intact always.
Flyboy
Member
The argument I'm willing to grant in favor of sex offender lists is that sex offenders (real ones, anyway) tend to be incurable. Yes, you read that right: they may not re-offend (though it's likely), but unlike other criminality-inducing mental illnesses, the mental illnesses that causes sex offenses--particularly those involvong children--are not curable. As a result of that, it is considerably more likely that a sex offender will reoffend than any other class of criminal.
However, I still don't think that means we need lists; rather, it means we need longer prison terms, up to and including life without parole.
If he's still a danger, he shouldn't be out of prison! If it's not in prison, he's served his time, and should be free to enjoy the rights of any other free man.
However, I still don't think that means we need lists; rather, it means we need longer prison terms, up to and including life without parole.
If he's still a danger, he shouldn't be out of prison! If it's not in prison, he's served his time, and should be free to enjoy the rights of any other free man.
ajax
Member
Flechette the difference between a teenager having sex before their emotionally equiped to deal with the conseqences,and a adult who prays upon unsuspecting children to sexually grattify themselves is a TOTALLY different ballgame and im sorry to see you dont differentiate the two.
klover
Member
All who cheer the murder go see "8mm"
The daugther of one of the killed men was his victim for many years (a follow up article in the "Bellingham Herald" reported).
She was quoted in saying that if anyone had a right to slay this man it was her.
She forgave her father for what he had done, and stated that he was very remorseful for what he did. He came to some recovery in his later years.
People (even monsters) can change. Hurt people hurt people.
To advocate in favor of a murder is to be a hurt person without the Spiritual connection of forgiveness.
And, yes, I carry, and would not hesitate to put a round through the head of anyone raping a child. This is NOT THE SAME as stopping a crime.
The daugther of one of the killed men was his victim for many years (a follow up article in the "Bellingham Herald" reported).
She was quoted in saying that if anyone had a right to slay this man it was her.
She forgave her father for what he had done, and stated that he was very remorseful for what he did. He came to some recovery in his later years.
People (even monsters) can change. Hurt people hurt people.
To advocate in favor of a murder is to be a hurt person without the Spiritual connection of forgiveness.
And, yes, I carry, and would not hesitate to put a round through the head of anyone raping a child. This is NOT THE SAME as stopping a crime.
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