Costco Bans firearms?

[PabloJ]

Costco is the one place I can list off the top of my head where a legally concealed weapon initiated a call from an employee to the police because they spotted his CCW. When the police confronted the person who was LEGALLY carrying their CCW in the parking lot of Costco, they ended up wrongfully shooting him to death.

http://pjmedia.com/blog/gunned-down-in-vegas-what-really-happened-to-erik-scott/

Mr. Scott did several things wrong that day, but Costco appears to be pretty dang anti-carry...or at least the responding police were.

"A Costco employee saw the holstered sidearm and told Scott he was not allowed to have the weapon in the store. Scott replied that he had a permit and the right to carry his weapon. He then went back to shopping. The employee called over a manager, who informed a 20-something security guard, who made a 911 call to police."

"As the police began to form a massive perimeter outside, Costco managers began evacuating the entire store without apparently explaining why to anyone. As Scott and his girlfriend exited the store he was identified to police officers, who were waiting with guns drawn outside the front door."

"Erik turned to find three officers facing him, guns drawn, and all three shouting different commands: “Get on the ground!” “Drop your weapon!” “Keep your hands up!” Erik held his hands up, spoke calmly, told them he DID have a concealed firearm and a legal CCW and was an ex-Army officer. His girlfriend was screaming about Erik being a West Point grad, former Army officer, etc. Erik leaned to his left, hands still up, to expose the pistol, and repeated, “I am disarming; I am disarming.” Witnesses say he started to lower his right hand, palm OUT, perhaps intending to remove holster and gun together — but never got the hand below his shoulder, when one of the cops (believed to be William Mosher, who had committed a fatal shooting in 2006) shot Erik in the chest with a .45-caliber semi-automatic weapon. Erik dropped to his knees, clearly in shock, his face a picture of disbelief. He was shot a second time and collapsed. The rest is ugly. The three officers unloaded again, firing a total of seven hollow-point rounds. At least four, possibly five, hit Erik in the back, after he was on the ground and dying."

Two things seems to emerge..... He refused to leave private property after he was told his presence was not appreciated. He went for the weapon when officers had guns trained on him. If that is what happened it is not very hard to surmise where fault for this tragedy lies. Basic instinct 101 when a stranger has visible firearm and is reaching for it fire your weapon first.

 

[Lizard1911]

Gamestalker: "And let me say this about my Brother and I, we would never let politics ever come between us as brothers, under no circumstances. He actually chuckled when I discarded that gift card."

Any chance he gave you an empty card? if I had a brother
Like him, that's exactly what I'd do.

I have carried in Cosco,until I read their policy.
I still shop there occasionally and follow their rules.
I haven't used my free Sam's membership in a long
time.

 

[Torian]

There are no COSTCO's in my immediate vicinity, but at the local Walmart, they are fine with open carry or CHL.

Even if a sign was posted, as other posters have already pointed out, I don't pay much attention to the ridiculous litany of assorted signs that are posted.

Since I always carry concealed, it's never been an issue, but if an employee confronted me, I would merely leave. It is private property, if you refuse, I do believe you can be charged with trespassing.

I'm a stubborn individual when it comes to my 2nd amendment rights, but not to the point where I will draw needless attention to myself.

 

[itsa pain]

Concealed means concealed.

or get shot 10 times 7 after you are down right?

 

[Shadow 7D]

HA, personally I now REALLY dispise costco (their customer service ain't all its cracked up to be)

and if they posted here, well they might as well roll the doors down and lock her up.

 

[OptimusPrime]

silicosys4, that version of the Erik Scott shooting is one of the most blatantly biased and innacurate accounts of the incident I've seen. You'd have to go to Scott's family, especially his half crazy father, to find a more dishonest take on the incident.

DMF, your statements are spot on.
Silicosys4, please don't use terms like "wrongfully shooting" when they are not true. There was an inquest and it was determined to be a valid shooting. Unfortunate, but justified. End of story.

 

[Certaindeaf]

So we've seen that Costco hasn't "banned" carrying of firearms. They sell superior goods.

 

[GBExpat]

Bringing a firearm into our warehouse does not enhance the shopping experience.

Well, that is certainly the silliest thing that I have read or heard to-day.

 

[OptimusPrime]

I can see the headlines next month: "area Costco's see increased muggings; officials at a loss to explain."

 

[Leanwolf]

On Driving The Anti-Gunners Crazy.

Wrong thread.

 

[itsa pain]

DMF, your statements are spot on.
Silicosys4, please don't use terms like "wrongfully shooting" when they are not true. There was an inquest and it was determined to be a valid shooting. Unfortunate, but justified. End of story.

what about the missing surveillance video?? at Costco they have them in the mens room all over . they never say a shooting was unjustified. out of thousands there might be one but I never heard of a police shooting to be unjustified like the one where 5 police shot a homeless guy over 40 times in the back

 

[JSH1]

So we've seen that Costco hasn't "banned" carrying of firearms. They sell superior goods.

Not only do they sell superior goods they also treat their employees much better. That is why my grocery shopping is done at Publix and Costco. I support companies that realize that they can pay their employees a living wage and stay in business. Costco's cash back rewards pay for the membership.

 

[Ken70]

DMF, your statements are spot on.
Silicosys4, please don't use terms like "wrongfully shooting" when they are not true. There was an inquest and it was determined to be a valid shooting. Unfortunate, but justified. End of story.

Why don't you post the "inquest"? I'd like to see it.

 

[OptimusPrime]

You don't have to quote "inquest", it was actually a real inquest.
Here's the address to that story: http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/shooting-ruled-justifiable

Here's the links to a couple of threads on this topic that THR covered:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=546600

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=546618

Use the search option for Erik Scott threads and you'll see a lot more discussion, both immediately as it occurred and over the course of time.

 

[Twiki357]

My local Costco had their "No Firearms" signs ever since the store opened back about 2006. But I noticed back around February this year that the signs were taken down and have not been replaced. There seems to be enough difference from one location to another, that it appears to me that it's a store management decision, rather than a corporate policy or a policy "Suggestion" that is not enforced by corporate.

 

[itsa pain]

they

 

[itsa pain]

You don't have to quote "inquest", it was actually a real inquest.
Here's the address to that story: http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/shooting-ruled-justifiable

Here's the links to a couple of threads on this topic that THR covered:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=546600

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=546618

Use the search option for Erik Scott threads and you'll see a lot more discussion, both immediately as it occurred and over the course of time.

they destroyed the video tapes and the process of police investigating themselves is so fixed the county commissioners said they would overhaul the inquest/ automatic clearing system

 

[mgkdrgn]

Some retail places in SC put up "non conforming" (ie, no =legal= standing) "No Guns" signs, on purpose, just to soothe the sheeple. CCW holders that know what the -real- signs look like as part of their training simply ignore them.

 

[coloradokevin]

Colorado "no CCW" signs don't have any force of law. I just carry anyway, and ignore the signs. But, generally I don't frequent Costco anyway.

 

[fdashes]

Post 25,,,Your explaination is questionable. It you read the story the way you yourself posted. "Going for his gun"? He was told to drop his weapon. How do you drop your weapon without dropping your weaponi? He was shot at seven times and hit in the back 4 times while on the ground. After he was hit the first time, most likely fatally, and fell to his knees couldn't he have been subduded by numberous officers then? I have to beleive there is so much more to the story. I pray there is. I do shake my head at you trivial explanation. A man was killing here.

 

[OptimusPrime]

Fdashes, there is no more to the story. Check the links on post #38.
Investigated, complete, done. There is nothing to rehash any longer about it.

Don't pull your weapon on officers.
Don't carry while under the influence.
Don't make yourself a noticeable menace in a store.

If he had done any of those 3 things, the outcome would be entirely different with him staying alive.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Whether or not a "no guns policy" exists at Costco, they are still required by law to inform people who enter into their stores. However, I don't know if is it written into their membership requirements people must agree to, nor do I know if that carrys the weight of law with respect to concealed carry laws in the various states. If it IS written into the rules that are conditionally agreed upon for membership, then it likely does carry weight. It'd probably be treated similarly to corporate rules and regulations for employees.

However, it's NOT llisted on any of the terms/conditions of membership that I've reviewed online. And the ONLY way I've found ANYTHING about this subject online was through a google search, which brought up this link:

https://ems02071lb.egain.net/system...ZONE_OFFSET=&CMD=VIEW_ARTICLE&ARTICLE_ID=2837

This is a Costco link...however, I cannot, for the life of me, arrive at it by any other means than a web search. I cannot find it by searching their website at all.


THAT SAID, regardless of posting or otherwise informing you in person, if you are told at any time by any Costco official that you are not allowed to bring your firearm into the store, THEN YOU MUST LEAVE. Costco is a private business and thus reserves the right to ask any person to leave, or even reject their membership.

The cited event with Erik Scott took its first wrong turn at precisely the moment he refused to leave when so informed and asked to do so.


Which brings us back to the OP's original question...if they don't post and it isn't otherwise explicitely stated as in a condition of membership, does this policy carry the weight of law?

I don't know that answer. However, I strongly suspect that if you know by other competant sources, then there will likely be some legal weight if that should be brought up in court. If you did NOT know AND it's not explicitely spelled out in the terms/conditions of membership AND it's not posted in accordance with state law, then there is probably some wiggle room in court.

But if you have to go to court, it'll be an expensive "wiggle room" by the time you are through. Better to either comply or not go there and let them know in writing why you no longer shop there.

The mentality of "I know they don't allow it but they aren't following the letter of the law so I don't have to comply" is juvenile and irresponsible behavior. I don't accept that behavior from my own children and I don't condone it with my own behavior.

 

[Ken70]

I think "inquest" is a lot better way of commenting. Typical LEO/Court whitewash. My ex was a Superior Court Clerk for a number of years. She told me the judge felt it was his responsibility to ignore the LEO lying and shading the truth in the interest of maintaining LEO morale. And she worked for more than one judge. Whole legal system is a joke....

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Whole legal system is a joke....

Speaking as a person who has experienced the "legal system" from the wrong side, I can assure you it's no joke. And I'm speaking from the experience of both the civilian courts and the military courts.

Frightening, stressful, depressing, and many other negative feelings and experiences, but most certainly NOT a joke in any way, shape, or form.

The good news in my case is that everything eventually worked out in my favor...after nearly 2 years of legal battle.

I've no doubt there are bad apples, but I don't believe the system is a "joke".

 

[zxcvbob]

Silicosys4, please don't use terms like "wrongfully shooting" when they are not true. There was an inquest and it was determined to be a valid shooting. Unfortunate, but justified. End of story.

There has never, ever, been an unjustified police shooting in LVMPD.

From what I remember of the inquest, it was mostly a character assassination of the victim.