Cougar attacks-man shoots-maybe charged

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10X

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I don't know about the rest of you, but I have to question the sense any authority that would even THINK of charging this fellow. Since it is Boulder who knows what will happen.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/14298666/detail.html



Mountain Lion Killed After Dog Attacked

Charges Possible In Boulder County Shooting

By Lance Hernandez, 7NEWS Reporter
POSTED: 6:02 am MDT October 9, 2007
UPDATED: 11:55 pm MDT October 9, 2007

BOULDER COUNTY, Colo. -- A Boulder County woman said her husband had no other choice but to shoot a mountain lion after it attacked one of their dogs and made a move toward him.
Angela and Jeremy Kocar said they will never leave their dogs outside alone again.
The couple, from Wisconsin, has been living near Gross reservoir while Jeremy works on wildfire mitigation.

Angela told 7NEWS that a friend was spending the night last Thursday, so they put the dogs outside and chained them up.
"I heard a growl, then I heard our dog yip," Angela said.
She thought it was raccoons trying to get the dog's food, so she woke her husband, grabbed a flashlight and ran outside.
She came face to face with the mountain lion.
"It was standing right there under the tree branch with my dog in its mouth."
Angela said she dropped the flashlight and froze. She said her husband was also stunned.
"'Oh my God,' were the first words out of his mouth."
She added that, "It (the lion) had him (the dog) at the end of his chain and it was shaking him like he was a rag doll."
Angela said Jeremy tried to scare the mountain lion away, but it wouldn't budge.
"The gentleman did feel threatened," said Jennifer Churchill of the Colorado Division of Wildlife. "He ran inside and got his rifle and did come out and was approached by the lion."
That's when he took a shot, Angela said.
Wildlife advocates are irate.
"I think the state should throw the book at him," said Wendy Keefover-Ring of Sinapu, an organization that tries to protect native wildlife.
"He told the Boulder Daily Camera, 'This is how we take care of things in Wisconsin.' And boy that's not how we do things in Colorado," Keefover-Ring said. "We have rules of law. You don't bait animals, you don't shoot out of season."
"He meant that it was a matter of protecting family and our home, not sport, not fun," Angela said. "Those dogs are our babies. They would never have been left outside if we had known (they were in danger.)"
Neighbor Dave Perrin said he's glad Jeremy shot the lion. "It was a rogue cat," Perrin said, "that had attacked several dogs and a miniature horse."
At least two animals were killed.
Perrin's own dog Teton was one that survived. Teton has scars on his chest, shoulder, head and neck.
"Honestly, if you're going to live in lion country you need to be a responsible pet owner," Churchill said. "So it's really crucial that people put their pets way at night."
Churchill adds that the case is still under investigation. She said Kocar could be charged with an illegal take, and could face a fine upward of $1,400.
Perrin said there's no way Kocar should be charged. He called the man a hero for ridding the neighborhood of a killer.
"I can't thank him enough," Perrin said.
 
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"I think the state should throw the book at him," said Wendy Keefover-Ring of Sinapu, an organization that tries to protect native wildlife.

I think she should try getting mauled by a mountain lion and see how she likes it.
 
What that lady wants...for the man to get killed that way they won't charge him.
for me he did the right thing....
 
the lady is an idiot. the lion was obviously acclimating to seeing human habitation as a food resource... that means sooner or later a young child or elderly person would end up on the menu.
 
that's not how we do things in Colorado," Keefover-Ring said. "We have rules of law. You don't bait animals, you don't shoot out of season."

This woman is an idiot. She equates leaving a pet outdoors to baiting the lion, and shooting in self-defense to hunting out of season. The natural law of self-defense supersedes any man made law regarding sport hunting, and this was not a hunting incident, unless you consider the lion to be hunting - but then the lion doesn't care what laws man makes to regulate it's hunting.

The lion was known to be a killer of pets and farm stock, but the DNR had done nothing to trap and relocate the lion; if anyone is at fault for this animal being killed, it is the DNR, because they should have relocated it away from human residential areas.
 
It's unfortunate that the cat had to be killed, but he did the right thing under the circumstances.

However, he should get fined for tying his dogs up in an unfenced yard in mountain lion territory, That's asking for it, if they are small dogs, as it sounds like they are.
 
The lion was known to be a killer of pets and farm stock, but the DNR had done nothing to trap and relocate the lion; if anyone is at fault for this animal being killed, it is the DNR, because they should have relocated it away from human residential areas.

While I understand the sentiment, I wish we could get away from the whole "let's depend on government to take care of our problems" mentality because I think that's what is getting us into these messes in the first place.

Used to be that a problem animal was handled by the community and everyone moved on. Now it seems like there's endless handwringing and "oh what do we do" while everyone waits for the "officially designated" people to act and stuff like this happens in the meanwhile.
 
Hey Wendy...

How about you moving out there, and seeing what you think when Lippy The Lion starts chewing on YOU....


Anything else I have to say to the ahhhhhh uhhmmmm person is nowhere near The High Road
 
Honestly, i think the whole key is that "then it made a move toward him."

The dog attack aside (i'd shoot any animal attacking my animals assuming they weren't running loose/at fault), the crux of the matter is that the PERSON felt threatened.

Really, the key words you want to say in this situation or any time you use your weapon in self defense: "I was afraid for my life."

Nuff said. Nobody can argue with that one.

edit:
I'm not saying to "lie" but to make things easier, i'd probably say i came out of the trailer with the rifle and not divulged that i'd "gone back for it" just because that's going to make more of a headache for everybody.
 
This should not even have to be debated in court etc. An average farmboy deputy or streetsmart cop would have just taken down the incident and let it die. Somebody, somewhere, saw this incident and blew it way out of proportion.

Man sees wildlife attacking dog (property), felt threatened, then shot to stop threat. Seems so clearcut.
 
My only worry would be if the visiting Game Warden could identify the delectable odor of a cat roast cooking away in my crock pot.

Biker;)
 
My wife and I have a little cocker spaniel. Like the people in the article, she is our kid. We don't leave her out day or night because we live in a upscale neighborhood near the national forest. We routinely have deer and bear through the yard. The deer are almost too tame. Bears never bother anything other than bird feeders. Lions and coyotes have different reputations of killing pets. I have seen mountain lions in the yard at night. One time at about 10:00 at night taking the dog out to go potty before bed, a coyote came right up to us trying to lure the dog into a chase, in turn to be attacked by a pack. I could see a lion showing up as well. From that time on I try to carry some life insurance with me just in case. I am going to protect family, pet and property, if necessary.

It never ceases to amaze, make that appall, me with the convoluted thinking of some people. I believe the guy did right.
 
I'm all for not randomly killing mountain lions in the wild off season, but this was far from random. It had attacked multiple animals in the area and was clearly learning to hunt among human areas. Someone's toddler could easily have been next. I don't think he should be charged with anything, nor do 80-90% of the people who have responded to the poll at the above mentioned web site thus far.
 
.

What gets me about this story is, what would she have preferred the man
do after watching one of his pets being maimed in his own back yard?

Seriously? Just stand and watch from the back door while it finishes munching one dog and moves on to the next one?
 
Can't tell a cat roast from a good pork roast when cooked in a crock pot. Fine eatin', it is.

Biker
 
Hey Wendy...

How about you moving out there, and seeing what you think when Lippy The Lion starts chewing on YOU....

They have Lions in Cleveland??:D

Put me in that situation, same outcome, kitty gets it.
 
As hinted above, he should have followed shoot with shovel and and shut up. I think cougars are beautiful and cool animals. But obviously this one was damaged by exposure to humans and his attacks only would have escalated. I wouldn't have waited for it to move toward me.
 
However, he should get fined for tying his dogs up in an unfenced yard in mountain lion territory, That's asking for it, if they are small dogs, as it sounds like they are.

Was there some law or ordinance prohibiting the way he kept his dogs? If not, what's the justification for the fine?

As for "mountain lion territory," people would be surprised at how expansive it is. Biologists underestimate it greatly, probably on purpose, in order to prevent public panic on how close they are to the big cats. In this area, there have been confirmed cougar killings/sightings that wildlife officials actively discredit.
 
Speaking of Lions in Cleveland, I grew up in western Maryland and when I was about 13 I was up in the woods behind our home (as usual) with a .22 and I found an odd track. I went home and took my dad to see it. I had seen pictures of different kinds of tracks. This was about as large as a man's palm and pretty round, not at all like a canine track. It was in soft ground and there was no evidence of toenail marks. bears were extremely rare in the area but there had been reports of a large black cat 20-30 miles away. To this day I don't know if it was a lion or a bear or what. At the time my dad didn't offer an opinion but got about as serious as I've ever seen him. I fully expected him to say I couldn't go into the woods anymore which would have killed me. Instead he said no more coming up here with a .22, only with a high powered rifle or a shotgun. I was extremely proud that he trusted me that much and a little scared. Thanks for reminding me of that event and of my dad.
 
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