Could be the answer to our political dreams?

[Otherguy Overby]

I've lived in different parts of the country, but Yankee would probably describe my upbringing.

Regardless, what Sherman did was un-american. I'd consider him to be a war criminal. I know, I know, he was just following orders...

 

[Rebar]

Back on topic...

I find it amusing how they're claiming all of California, when a look at the county-level voting shows only a narrow strip along the coast went blue. That's less than 25% of the state.
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/countymapredbluelarge.png

If they want to secede, fine by me, but they shouldn't force the 75% of the state to follow when they voted "red".

 

[charby]

And never trust a damn yankee or shelter him or help him in any way.

Harsh man... If anyone from south (and anyone else) broke down near my house or if I was on my to and from the house, I'd stop and help you. Your kids come beat on my door cause they are being chased, wife or what not, I'd lend assistance and think nothing of it. You get stranded in a snowstorm, I'd shelter you if came to my door asking for a place to sleep or if I saw you and your family shivering in the car out in the street.

Not becuase I'm some rightous person, just I have been in all of those situations and someone has went out of their way to help me out.

Don't care if your Johnny Reb, Yankee, Martian, if you need some help I'd help you the best way I can.

BTW I'm smack dab in the middle of Iowa.

Charby

oh to stay to the thread, Let California have their own country only if they call it the land of Fruits, Nuts and Barbara Boxer. I hope those folks that want seperate that a bunch of their water comes from outside the borders.

 

[auschip]

So I sent an email to the site asking about the 45% (+/-) of people who voted Republican in CA. I didn't receive an answer.

 

[Greymoor]

I don't believe that the US will allow itself to be taken apart by special intrest groups and dreamers. Many of the conservatives and patriots would leave the forth coming socialist "paradise". How many dedicated tree huggers and members of the latte' crowd would be left to face the coming storm. Truth is that at the rate that the liberal states are disarming their population, that by the time they leave the union, their gun hating military would be facing the U.S. Army with single shots and bows. . .

The forth coming spanking would remove such silliness from their collective minds . . .

E Pluribus Unum - and it is going to stay that way!

 

[Ed]

Sherman burned Atlanta, And Grant basicly killed Vicksburg MS where I'm from, But everyone who was with him is dead now and I wasn't alive then. SO... Hey, I'm from the south and lived here all my life (except a stint at Fort Carson in Colorado) I like to talk up the South too...But I've been to lots of places in the North and working for a large International company meet people from all over and I can tell you that there are the same kinds of people everywhere. Good, Bad etc. About the worst I can honestly say that is stereotypically true about the North is that they for some strange reason don't serve Sweet Tea in most places

If California were to somehow leave, what would their debt jump to? They would owe the USA lots for Interstates, Government property etc. Hey if my taxes have been paying for it, they don't get it for free.

 

[Art Eatman]

Er, uh, guys, wasn't this thread about California and secession?

Merry Christmas, Roland. Peace on Earth, Goodwill toward Men...

Back to the (bleep!) thread:

"For example, if we were to put California secession or a declaration of independence on the ballot today for a thumbs up, thumbs down vote, how likely is it to pass?


On the other hand, if we put forward an initiative that recommends the formation of state-sanctioned committee to proceed with a detailed study on California secession, that might be more palatable to voters and move the discussion forward. We would attempt to enlist some of the best and brightest minds in this state to help us in this effort."

IOW, "A referendum might not pass unless we do a con-job on the voters."

Billy Graham went to Texas Stadium and induced a Rapture in 50,000 people. Secession by California would induce a Rapture in 250 million!

, Art

 

[R.H. Lee]

If California were to somehow leave, what would their debt jump to? They would owe the USA lots for Interstates, Government property etc. Hey if my taxes have been paying for it, they don't get it for free.

We'll just charge y'all 10 prices for agricultural products, medical technology, computers, communications equipment, etc.

 

[benewton]

As I've read, not being a Westerner, California has neither the power nor the water to support her current lifestyle.

They do, however, have large numbers of illegals to show them how to live a more "simple" lifestyle.

And, we'd be rid of a problem.

I'd say that any reasonable man would support two non profit groups, one which supports California independence, and one which supports Californian-American refugees....


Then, too, we could just do a hydrogen bomb test on one of the faults....

After all, a flush is a flush, and the end of the "independence" issue really isn't in doubt, it's only the timing.

 

[Art Eatman]

RileyMc sez, "We'll just charge y'all 10 prices for agricultural products, medical technology, computers, communications equipment, etc."

Uh, the US produces right at double what food it needs, already. And Mexico produces as much winter-time veggies as the Imperial Valley.

Medical Technology? Don't need y'all; we got MD Anderson in Texas among other hospitals; it's #1 in the world for cancer treatment.

Compters? Communications equipment? Er, uh, "Silicon Hills" around Austintatious. Mike Dell's playpen, among others, including IBM and Motorola and Texas Instruments...

But feel free to try again.



Art

 

[auschip]

So I sent an email to the site asking about the 45% (+/-) of people who voted Republican in CA. I didn't receive an answer.

He just responded.

"Thanks for your question. Admittedly, this movement
began in response to the re-election of Bush. However,
I have posted some other articles that suggest
California independence should be considered as
beneficial to all our citizens, regardless of
political persuasion--in particular the piece I wrote
that you can access at the link below.

http://moveoncalifornia.org/whysecession.html

Thanks and best wishes,"

I didn't ask about the deficit of oil (CA being the largest user of gas in the US), or the added cost of defense and infrastructure.

 

[R.H. Lee]

Hey, I love Tejas as much as the next guy, but it's no match for California's economy, which is the 7th largest in the world. It's true, the political climate here leaves something to be desired. However, if California ceased to exist tomorrow, the rest of the country would be in a world of hurt. Our exports total some $120+ billion per year. There is no other place that could pick that up.

 

[tyme]

It's not the land that's the problem. There's no reason to give up land. The proper solution is to deport idiots making bad public policy to Mexico (after tightening the border).

 

[Michigander]

As for what California would owe the US; is California a "giver" or "taker" when it comes to Federal funding? I know Michigan gets back less than is taken by the Feds and some states receive more than they "give."

And...

Let the Left speak of Treason. May they never stop talking of it.

How does seceding from the (voluntary) Union meet the Constitution's definition of Treason?

Article III:

Clause 1: Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.

Granted, it might not be long before California adhered to the US's enemies or gave them aid and comfort, but the act of secession does not constitute Treason.

 

[Ky Larry]

I have known many Californians have found them to be, on the whole, honest,decent,loyal, hardworking Americans. Yes, they have a lot of stupid, useless, greedy, egg-sucking liberals but so do we in the Blue Grass State. From what I've seen, these dirt bags are in every state and in Washington, D.C. State secession has been tried before and it didn't work. The whole idea is too silly to even consider.

 

[Mute]

I say we give all of them, Catalina Island and be done with it. Of course, they'll have to be their own country. Maybe USSA or something similar.

 

[tyme]

Catalina Island is too close if not too small. Greenland, Australia, and the Brazilian or Congo rainforests are the obvious choices: Greenland because so many whine about global warming, Australia and the rainforests because most liberals would be killed by their inability to live alongside the "nature" they hold to be so precious. Either that or they'd quickly develop an appreciation for weapons, and perhaps they could be offered provisional visas to return to the States eventually.

 

[Sam Adams]

Roland

And never trust a damn yankee or shelter him or help him in any way.

I grew up in NJ and didnt like it once I understood how little freedom I had. I live in Texas now and own many guns. Does this still make me a yankee?

Oh, and if you make that remark about Texas in Texas to a Texan, you'll get a mouthful (probably of your own teeth), and you'd deserve it.

My ancestors didnt participate in either side of the war, btw. They were being oppressed in Eastern Europe and Russia at the time. Note that Russia freed its serfs (i.e. slaves) in 1861, 2 years before we in the enlightened US of A did so.

The Civil War is over. Your great, great, great grampa's side lost about 100 years before you were even thought of. Deal with it (it shouldn't be too hard, really). That, and Lighten up, Francis!

 

[Roland of Gilead]

LOL, what a bunch of whiners! The Civil War IS over, and the South DID lose, and I did have ancestors fight in it, on BOTH sides. I didn't mean to come across so down on yankees, I don't go out of my way to cause them harm, but if I have to choose between doing business with a yankee or with a person who is from the South, I'll opt for the local every time. If you are a Yankee transplant, you are welcome to the South as long as you don't try to constantly tell us how they did it up north, and why it was so great.

Of course if a yankee was trapped here in a snowstorm (we don't usually have snowstorms down here) I'd let them in the house so as not to freeze, but I might make them sit thru a history lesson if it came up that they were a yankee, especially one that thinks the civil war was about slavery, and that we here should just "get over it".
My best friend is a Yankee from Gary, Indiana. Indiana might not be an origianal Yankee state, but he talks like a Yank. He is also a very decent person, very polite, very successful, very responsible. I am sure that there are many Yankees like him. I just haven't met them. And yes, I do talk ???? to him for being a yank. He returns the favor.

BTW my g/f is from south GA, I don't think I could bring myself to marry a yankee.

My whole point is that people don't just "get over" war. No matter how many times you tell them to. They remember the rape and pillage that always goes along with it. They remember the humiliation of defeat and occupation. And they don't forgive it for generations. Russia is learning that in Chechnyea (sp?), a war that has been being fought since the late 1700's. French and British still don't like each other at all, despite having been allies in the last several wars, because for centuries before that they warred. Ask an Indian about Pakistan, or vice versa. Wars don't end just cause treaties get signed.

I apologize if I offended a Yankee who is also a good person. I get pissed when I hear people praise Sherman, or Goering, or other war criminals. Surely you can understand this.

As for there being socialists in the south, I am well aware of that, you are talking to one. My opinion is that there are not nearly enough like me, with both Che Guevera and 7.62 NATOs on their wall. But I am working on that.

 

[Glock Glockler]

As for there being socialists in the south, I am well aware of that, you are talking to one

If this is the case why are you complaining about this "...the rape and pillage that always goes along with it...the humiliation of defeat and occupation"?

The Southerners were obviously concerned about themselves instead of the community, and their selfish actions threatened the safety of society. Just because some people in the south wanted to go their own way doesnt mean they have any business deciding their fate, that decision is made by the community for the express purpose of serving the greater good, and secession was only good for the few at the expense of the many.

 

[Roland of Gilead]

As for there being socialists in the south, I am well aware of that, you are talking to one

If this is the case why are you complaining about this "...the rape and pillage that always goes along with it...the humiliation of defeat and occupation"?


I'm afraid I don't understand your logic. Socialists as a general rule are pro-rape-and-pillage? I don't think so. Also, saying that by secession they were anti-community is false, obviously they didn't consider the northern states part of their community.



I don't think California can legally declare independence, and I wouldn't support it if they could, but I also don't think that this is anything we should worry about happening anytime soon.

As for China putting missiles in Cali, that is the least of your worries. N. Korea now has missles that can hit mainland US, and they have nuclear warheads, so now they just need an excuse to push a button. Since Bush has declared them part of the axis of evil and begun invasions of states that he considers part of it, I'd say that is a real possibility. I know we could turn N. Korea to glass, but I don't know if that is enough of a deterrent for them. China doesn't want to nuke us, they are in a position to get rich off us by exporting their junk here, and they have a European Union that now, thanks to Bush, wants to look places besides the US to trade.

 

[R.H. Lee]

IF (big if) we somehow seceded, WA and OR won't be far behind. They are both blue states, too. The entire left coast is blue. The rest of the country won't have any Pacific Ocean access (unless we allow it).

Oh, yeah, and you might have to get your lumber from somewhere else, too. (unless you wanna go back to building mud and straw huts).

 

[auschip]

Oh, yeah, and you might have to get your lumber from somewhere else, too. (unless you wanna go back to building mud and straw huts)

[singing]Oooooo Canada, your something something something. [/singing] Then again, I am sure we could work something out. We have a treaty with Mexico that allows 1.5M acre feet of water from the Colorado river. Currently California the State is alotted 4.4M acre feet of water a year. I imagine we could work a trade so that California the Country could at least get the same amount as Mexico. Maybe we could sell it to you guys (like the power that was sold during the energy crises).

Jest of course, the reality is that CA needs the US more then they would like to admit, and vice versa.

 

[Glock Glockler]

Socialists as a general rule are pro-rape-and-pillage?

Socialists believe in the "greater good" and not the individual, therefore if the greater good is to be achieved by extreme taxing of the minority so that healthcare or education or whatever can be funded it is just if is for the betterment of the community.

I don't think so. Also, saying that by secession they were anti-community is false, obviously they didn't consider the northern states part of their community.

Well, the North certainly considered the South part of their community, and there were far more Northerners than there were Southerners, they were the majority. What happened to the individual Southerner is irrelevant, all that matters is what happened to the country.

 

[Glock Glockler]

unless we allow it...unless you wanna go back to building mud and straw huts

Keep somthing in mind...unless you want to be declared a terrorist state and face the full wrath of the US Military