Could be the answer to our political dreams?

[carebear]

I guess my other point is, the tax laws are indeed written to benefit certain kinds of economic behaviour. Property holding and investment in particular.

While I don't disagree with modifying the tax code, especially to change it so it is flatter and thus more equitable, for now I choose to use it to my benefit as much as I can.

The write-offs for interest and spending on investment property are amazing. Soon I'll be incorporated and in essence write off every expense (car, insurance, housing) I have.

It is every American's patriotic responsibility to pay taxes, but it is their MORAL duty to pay as little in taxes as legally possible.

 

[carebear]

Oh, and as was said, they think they are getting ripped off by the neighboring states NOW?

Water and power prices go up, cause you know the environmentalists won't let them build any energy plants of any kind or dam any rivers. What are they gonna do, invade Nevada?

USA.mil pulls the troops and their bases out or just forcibly retains the land. Goodbye tax base. Heck, without Federal transportation subsidies alone the I5 will crumble in weeks.


Yeah, go ahead hippies, secede. You'll be begging us unenlightened red state savages to pull you back out of the Dark Ages in 2 years, tops.

 

[River Wraith]

Roland, your arguments reveal socialist logic, quite the oxymoron.
Does anyone know what it would take to send that half of Cali into the ocean? If a bomb were dropped on the San Andreas fault, would that actually DO anything?

 

[Art Eatman]

Interesting what the oh-so-hated ultra-wealthy do with their money. Think of Carnegie, Mellon, Rockefeller and Ford and others: Libraries, hospitals, endowments to universities and the latter two as politically liberal foundations.

Bill Gates? Hmmm: $20 billion to aid mothers/children on health issues, in Africa.

I'm blanked for the moment on the Berkshire/Hathaway guy's name: His estate of umpteen billions goes to Planned Parenthood.

When the capital gains tax was reduced, more of the wealthy sold equities and other capital items--and the total tax take went up. You don't sell an item if the profits will be highly taxed.

Socialism is a proven failure; high taxes stifle economic activity. This isn't opinion; it's demonstrable fact which has been shown over and over and over. Trouble is, socialistic types are faith-driven, and facts don't matter. That's why, I guess, most of them are pro-gun-control; same irrational style of non-think...

, Art

 

[RealGun]

I'm blanked for the moment on the Berkshire/Hathaway guy's name: His estate of umpteen billions goes to Planned Parenthood.

That would be Warren Buffett.

 

[garyk/nm]

Let them secede. Then invade them as a "threat to National security" and take their oil!
Oh, and then we could help them set up a new government!
Nah. Never been done.

 

[Roland of Gilead]

Roland,

If you are working that hard and yet are "just getting by" I have to recommend the only realistic way to get financially successful.

Thanks for the tip. Like I said I am self employed, so if I invest, and believe me I do, I do so in my own business. I think you misunderstand. My own personal income, what I make is about $25K-$30K before taxes. I have never broken $30K. My business does a lot more than that, but since its only 5 years old, I am still paying off a lot of start up costs, plus expansion costs. As a single 26 year old, I live pretty comfortably on $25K-$30K, hell, my house is paid off, how many 26 year olds can say that? I drive a 2002 truck, the newest vehicle I've owned since I got a brand new 125cc bike in 1992 for my 14th birthday (mostly so I had a way to get to the field after school). That I have clawed my way to stay on level ground is no kinda testament to the success of the American economic system, though. And if I had two or three kids I might not be in such good shape. It is testament to the fact that I am not the kind of person you want desperate, as I will do what it takes to do my job. If I had a family for whom I had to put food on the table, food would get put on the table, all else would come second. I can sympathize with people who have a hard time doing that. I don't want them desperate. I belive that an equalization of wealth is inevitable, I'd rather see it come thru higher tax rates for wealthy people (even if that is me) than to see those same wealthy people (especially if its me) relieved of their excess by violence.
I belive that with Economic Globalization, that there is a coming and inevitable equalization of wealth on a global scale. We can't beam pictures of our ridiuclously comfortable life-style to people all over the world via <a href="satellite%20tv" onmouseover="window.status='satellite TV'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;">satellite TV</a> and expect them to make rugs for $0.25/hour and not be desperate. That dog won't hunt, I guarantee. We are at the extreme high end of the global economic scale, and when it balances, we gotta come down some for the other end to go up some. I don't know why people can't grasp this, seems elementary to me.

 

[Rebar]

We are at the extreme high end of the global economic scale, and when it balances, we gotta come down some for the other end to go up some. I don't know why people can't grasp this, seems elementary to me.

What you don't grasp, is that wealth-creation is not a "zero sum game". We are not rich because they are poor, we are rich because we create wealth, they are poor because they don't create wealth.

Punishing success and rewarding failure is no way to create wealth, or anything else. If they adopted the same capitalist and democratic systems like we have in America, they can create wealth just the same as us. It's rediculous socialist ideas that keep them from doing that, which keeps them poor.

 

[carebear]

Roland, I should have phrased that better. I didn't mean to sound holier-than-thou. I have never made much more than $30K in wages either. The property I bought pays for itself and a little extra. There's always room and programs to get into investing cheap, I used my VA loan but FHA has a bunch too. Having had one business fail under me, I'm not inclined to put all my eggs in my own basket, so I invest outside myself also. If that makes any sense.

You are in a good region for what I did. I know in North Carolina anyway there are tons of under-valued properties that just need face lifts to become immediate cash flow properties or can turn and sell at a profit. All that takes is basic carpentry skills and weekend work (cause all you have is free time right )

As far as wealth distribution goes, as was said, the beauty of capitalism is there's always growth. Everyone can get wealthier at noone's particular expense.

If you give everyone an equal slice of the economic pie we have right now, the policies that will take to happen (socialism) will ensure the pie gets smaller. Eventually everyone will starve. (Witness everywhere that hasn't gone to some form of privatizarion and free markets.)

Under our system, everyone can take as much pie as they want, cause it the very act of cutting your piece (doing whatever your business is) makes the pie bigger.

 

[BryanP]

can we please concentrate on the common enemy?

No, no no. The real enemy is The Judean People's Liberation Front; NOT the People's Liberation Front of Judea.


And you heard it direct from me - The Man They Call Bryan.

 

[Glock Glockler]

I'd rather see it come thru higher tax rates for wealthy people (even if that is me) than to see those same wealthy people (especially if its me) relieved of their excess by violence.

That's very noble of you, Roland, but why don't you let them decide for themselves? They might decide to invest in some guns and ammo to defend themselves against those who come to take their rightful property.

We can't beam pictures of our ridiuclously comfortable life-style to people all over the world via and expect them to make rugs for $0.25/hour and not be desperate

Then let them strike if they think they deserve more money, maybe it'll work and maybe it won't. We might just have a factory in some other country where the people are fine with .25 cents/day, or maybe we'll just invest in automation to aviod the labor issue. Ultimately the free market will decide.

 

[Otherguy Overby]

About taxes

Does anyone wonder how we ended up with taxation that could have been taken directly from the Communist Manifesto?

All this in a country founded by tax protestors?

A country where the first shots fired in its revolutionary war were over attempted confiscation of guns by the British?

===============

These measures will, of course, be different in different countries.

Nevertheless, in most advanced countries, the following will be pretty generally applicable.

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.

4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.

5. Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.

6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the state.

7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

8. Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.

10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc.

======================================

Yet another thought to ponder, how much of the above is already well established here?


-=-=-
... "The number of sociopaths in a stipulated population varies widely, but we can take a figure of one in one hundred, for simplicity's sake and not be far off. About one person in one hundred will, under some circumstances, initiate a violent attack upon another, in defiance of the law, for reasons that seem sufficient to him at the time. Take the able-bodied male population of your community, divide it by one hundred, and you have a fair approximation of the number of possible contacts who just might take it upon themselves to beat your head in."

If you really think you can avoid that one percent every day all of the time, all of your life, perhaps you do not need to carry a gun. -Jeff Cooper

 

[Roland of Gilead]

What you don't grasp, is that wealth-creation is not a "zero sum game". We are not rich because they are poor, we are rich because we create wealth, they are poor because they don't create wealth.
They are poor because there is no wealth in their part of the world. They can't start a manufacturing business because there are no machines to buy, and no banks to get loans from. They don't have any collateral anyway. This makes them worthless to you. That is why they fly planes into our buildings. Grasp that.


They might decide to invest in some guns and ammo to defend themselves against those who come to take their rightful property.

"House Nigg@s Vs. The Homelss, ten to one." Wu-Tang. 10 to 1 is really a low estimate. I am talking about so many people that your "guns and ammo" investor won't be able to swap 40 rd mags fast enough to keep from getting over run down with machetes. Like in Chiapas. And they won't be over running you, you don't have anything to take.



Then let them strike if they think they deserve more money, maybe it'll work and maybe it won't. We might just have a factory in some other country where the people are fine with .25 cents/day, or maybe we'll just invest in automation to aviod the labor issue. Ultimately the free market will decide.

If they adopted the same capitalist and democratic systems like we have in America, they can create wealth just the same as us. It's rediculous socialist ideas that keep them from doing that, which keeps them poor.

I put these two together cause they are kinda the same idea. The workers can't strike, there are more 12 year olds waiting to take their job, like GG said. what they hey can do is quit. But then they get hungry and theyneed a job. So they get another job, prostitute maybe, or pickpocket. Hopper for the local warlord or opium runner. Cause this is the only work there is in their part of the world.
I made the fly airplanes into buildings remark earlier, here's a source I'll cite:
The Eisenhower admin. studied why people in the middle east hate us. This is when hatred of America by Arabs was a relatively new thing. The commision report concludes that Arabs hate us (hated us then, whatever) because in addition to our unending support for Israel, they had this notion that America stifled democracy in that region in favor of totalitarian regimes so that they could better manipulte the oil prices. The commision report further states that it is difficult to dispell this notion in the Arab world because it is true. And not only that, it is perfectly natural for the United States to keep such regimes in power to better manipulate the oil, because we need(ed) it. This is not some Communist Organization (or their rediculous socialist ideas), this is The Executive Office of the United States.

I also talked about Chiapas above. There was a rebellion there in Southern Mexico in response to the signing of NAFTA. That treaty moved all the manufacturing jobs to northern Mexico, and the Indians in the south who were already having their farm land seized, smelled vaseline, and knew what was coming. They had no guns, just machetes, sticks, farm tools. Their average income per family unit was $265 year.
The United States sent $100 million in military hardware to help quell this rebellion. Against women with machetes. BTW, we have currently pledged less than half that ($35 million) to help the victims of the tsunami in Asia. Late reports incicate that as many as 400,000 people may be missing from one province in Indonesia. Elsewhere figures are already upwards 100,000 dead. And experts say that disease and contamination may kill 300,000 more. How much is $35 million split a million ways? We sent them $35 a piece toward rebuilding from the largest seismic event on the Earth in over 40 years. Now THAT is compassionate conservatism if I ever saw it.

 

[carebear]

Roland,

There is wealth to be created in all parts of the world. Throughout history, when Western methods have taken control of the economic engines of the 3rd world (not colonialism, through war reconstruction, intervention or independent reform) the economy immediately improves.

Check out Haiti when the Marines took over Customs and eliminated corrupt officials compared to now for an example. Check out the Ottoman empire when it adopted Western tax and land reform vice those periods when they used traditional methods.

It is local misrule and generally socialistic practices that create the instability that sensibly keeps Western investment from coming into the countries. It is local misrule that causes local poverty and hunger in nations that have in the past been more than able to support themselves. It is local misrule that allowed deserts to spread into formerly irrigated areas in the Middle East and create conditions of famine and poverty and disease. It is anti-capitalist mercantalistic / protectionist / socialistic practices in Western nations that prevent foreign agriculture (the baseline for economic growth from primitive beginnings) from being imported and beginning a source of capital flow.

The West has continued to clean up its actions in the Third World. The onus has been and remains on them to take action themselves.

 

[Glock Glockler]

They are poor because there is no wealth in their part of the world. They can't start a manufacturing business because there are no machines to buy, and no banks to get loans from. They don't have any collateral anyway. This makes them worthless to you.

Quite the opposite, the fact that they don't have much means that I don't have to pay them much in order for it to be a good deal when they work for me. Now I can have things produced there for less cost than in other places. This means that I can make more profit and/or be more competative in the marketplace, and the poor people who previously had no job now have a job.

Think of it this way: it will cost less for you to hire a high school kid with no experience to preform a skilled task than it will to hire someone with years of experience in that trade. This is the whole idea behind the apprentice system that worked brilliantly in Europe for centuries. The senior tradesman gets cheap labor by taking the inexperienced person on, the newbie gets some money but the more important thing he gets is experience. Once he has learned the ropes a bit he can produce more and can thus command more.

That is why they fly planes into our buildings. Grasp that.

Completely untrue, do some homework next time. Mohammad Atta, the rest of the 911 murderers, Bin Laden, etc were not poor, they actually came from very privilaged backgrounds and had plenty of exposure to Western openness. They are flying planes into buildings for other reasons.

"House Nigg@s Vs. The Homelss, ten to one."

Please, don't use a term if you're ashamed of it, if that's the case you should use a different word. Ok, now that we have that sorted out, how am I a 'house ******' if I want to keep my own money instead of having someone like yourself, who is obviously concerned with my benefit, take my money away from me by force to then redistribute to people who don't want to work?

Suppose I keep my money, what do you think I am going to do with it? I'll probably eat steak at Bugaboo Creek more, I'll buy more guns and ammo, maybe get a newer car instead of the old POS I currently have, maybe fix up my house, etc. That means there will be more business in that restaurant, gun and ammo companies, the auto industry, the home repair and lumber industries. By my keeping my money I create useful jobs for all the above-mentioned industries, as well as the the businesses that they trade with in order to operate. This is how wealth is created, the socialism you advocate creates an army of bureaucrats who provide no value to society and it creates a class of dependants with no skills.

How is it that British ruled Hong Kong, with virtually no taxes and govt regulation, went from being a 3rd world nation to being a wealthy trade powerhouse in so short a time? It sure wasnt their generous welfare programs to protect the rich from being overrun by the oppressed proletariot, the wealthy just invested their money and created more money for themselves and the people they did business with.

But then they get hungry and they need a job

Ok, so how were they better off before the evil capitalist pigs set up a factory there? At that point there is no job to strike from. What happens is that the more companies set up businesses there the more scarce labor becomes, now instead of hordes of 12 year olds waiting to take the job (which means it was a better deal than what the 12 year olds had otherwise) there are just dozens and they don't have the skiils that the trained people have. Now who is in a stonger porition to demand more wages? The market handles these things on their own, it doesnt need any kind intentioned govt bureaucrat screwing things up.

they had this notion that America stifled democracy in that region in favor of totalitarian regimes so that they could better manipulte the oil prices

I wish this was the case. Considering how much oney we spend on maintaining a presence in the ME v. the amount of oil we import from them it seems like a bad deal to me. I'd rather just let those people rot in their own filth and bring our people and money home. Why is it that the Israelis are able to make a 1st world country out of what was a barren wasteland and the Arabs have not been able to discover the wonder of toiletpaper?

We sent them $35 a piece toward rebuilding from the largest seismic event on the Earth in over 40 years.

Did we cause the tsunami? If not, I'd like to know why we are responsible for repairing it's damage. I wonder how much aid the rest of the world would send us if we had a natural calamity.

 

[Art Eatman]

Roland, this view of yours underpins much of your argument, and this is fallacious:

"They are poor because there is no wealth in their part of the world. They can't start a manufacturing business because there are no machines to buy, and no banks to get loans from. They don't have any collateral anyway."

You need look no further than Mexico. There are oil, timber, precious metals, farmland, fisheries and a good work ethic. They have far more than does Japan. Mexico is as well off for raw materials as was the US, but for iron ore.

"Viva la revolucion" is all well and good, but their revolution never left its socialistic ideas behind and allowed the spread of economic well-being into the world of the peon. No upward mobility. No significant amount of middle class. Socialism can only tear down; it cannot build up.

I could make the same case for various countries in Africa, given gold, diamonds, oil, farmlands, timber, fisheries...

The Soviet Union is another example of tearing down. Post-1917 in Russia, the literacy rate dropped. Instead of being able to export wheat, they imported it. Personal longevity declined due to poor diet. None of the Iron Curtain countries ever regained the economic status of the pre-Nazi era.

And to repeat, Japan has few natural resources, as compared to "successful" countries, yet they account for 1/3 of the world's economic activity.

Art

 

[R.H. Lee]

The continent of Africa is rich in natural resources, yet the people are as poor as they come in this world.

 

[carebear]

Roland,

For a good look at the potentials of Third World nations and the things that are keeping them down from a capitalist perspective, you might read "Investment Biker" by Jim Rogers.

He's an investment guy who retired early and took a BMW motorcycle the hard way through Africa and Asia. Good, quick read and very enlightening.

Not that you have a lot of reading time.

 

[Roland of Gilead]

Glock Glocker:
The Israelis are able to maintain a first world country because you and I paid for the military they use to defend it, leaving them much freer to invest their own money in their own country. The surrounding countries didn't get the same deal. But then, like you pointed out, they are just filthy arabs. Now we will SELL military hardware to some of these countries, if they provide us with oil. That is why Saudis have F-16's. Coincidentally, Saudi is ruled by a totalitarian regime, one that stifles democracy. Just like you wish happened. You must have a genie in a bottle. A filthy arab genie.


BTW, I am not ashamed of any terms I used. I was trying to demonstrate to you that I am not the only person who has this crazy notion. Since we are being so honest, I DO think that you are an American who said that the 12 year olds should be grateful that you give them a job that they can work for 14 hours a day, $3 a day, until they breathe enough rug fibers that get sick and are unable to make it to work one day. Then a new 12 year old gets the job and the old 12 year old gets to wheeze in his cardboard house until he has the decency to expire from malnutrition and his respritory ailment. Those paper masks are just expensive to provide your child laborers with. That is why I feel perfectly comfortable (and unashamed) to call you an ???????. Maybe the biggest, most unapologetic ??????? I've communicated with via internet. And that is really saying something, ???????.
BTW if your answer is to guns and ammo up, you better get started. I expect I have many of the same guns you do. So if that is how you propose to solve the world's economic problems, by all means, let's get this ????ing show on the road. You barstool commandos always are so ready to gun up. Don't I sound scared, ????????


Art Eatman: You need look no further than Mexico. There are oil, timber, precious metals, farmland, fisheries and a good work ethic. They have far more than does Japan. Mexico is as well off for raw materials as was the US, but for iron ore.
Yes, and like I already stated, the farmers in Southern Mexico are being evicted off their property (where their families have lived since white people first came there around 1516). When they try to rebel, to stand up for themselves, the USA helps Mexico (and Mexico is not exactly a world class example of democracy in action BTW) stamp out the rebellion. Also funny how your plan for their success is for them to sell us their resources at a reduced rate.
How is it that British ruled Hong Kong, with virtually no taxes and govt regulation, went from being a 3rd world nation to being a wealthy trade powerhouse in so short a time?
Mostly by keeping a small army/navy there the entire time. Also having the US as an ally to deter the Chinese from implemeting their "One China" policy until the British withdrew. Taiwan is still protected by the United States and Britian, because the United States and Britian are making the most $$ off its economy.

And to repeat, Japan has few natural resources, as compared to "successful" countries, yet they account for 1/3 of the world's economic activity.
1/3 the world's economic activity? I see another point I'd like to make. Quite often I make a statement, and then cite a source. You just make statements like this, and assume I (and other readers) should just assume that you keep track of the world's economic pie and rattle that figure off the top of your head. Try citing a source, it will lend you credibility, of which you currently have none.

The Soviet Union is another example of tearing down. Post-1917 in Russia, the literacy rate dropped. Instead of being able to export wheat, they imported it. Personal longevity declined due to poor diet. None of the Iron Curtain countries ever regained the economic status of the pre-Nazi era.

This is the only example of a socialist country any of you know? Never mind that six posts ago I said that the USSR was the one of the worst examples of a socialist country I could think of. Cuba would be a better one, a nation that has managed to survive on a socialist system for 40 years with the world's last superpower 90 miles away trying to undermine it at every turn.
BTW, Carter's grain embargo failed because the USSR was able to produce enough wheat and still have some left over for export. I know this because at the time, my family farmed wheat here in the USA. Again, cite a source and lend yourself some crediblity.

 

[Art Eatman]

Sorry, Roland, but as a lot of folks here can tell you, I'm pretty doggoned well credible. I'm not quite an Elmer Keith, but I'm pretty close to his "Hell, I was there." Seven+ decades will do that.

It's pretty much common knowledge--to those who pay attention--that in world economic activity, the US is right at one-third or a bit under, and (I mis-spoke about Japan, from a bit of hurry and divided attention with the Alabama game) Japan is about one-sixth. All other countries, combined, total about one-half. (The world total is about $32 trillion, last I read, and we're a tad over $10 or so trillion, mas o menos.)

Back to Mexico: Eviction of farmers? That's good ol' gummint for you. Absent the sanctity of land titles that we have, eviction can be by governmental whim, with not even our "eminent domain" laws. And you're back to the socioeconomic/governmental system to blame for miseries and woes, not a lack of resources.

Yeah, I can mis-speak, from time to time. But I don't bother with "credibility". At my age, I AM, usually, the necessary link. (And not the missing link, either. )

You're new, here, Roland, which is fine, no problem, but I suggest a bit of learning about who's here and credible, and who might be lacking in knowledge and experience.

As to links and references, I guess I just gave you credit for awareness of what I thought was common knowledge of economic data. It didn't occur to me that it was part of your Great Unknown. Mea culpa. But, while there are indeed drawbacks to youth, I'm generally charitable in overlooking them. A lack of enough time to learn the basics is not a good-or-bad facet of lifeitsownself.

Ciao,

Art

 

[bobby68]

I'm in california and i want to point out something that even the article acknowledges, just not very clearly. The california lefties are geographically centered around LA and SF... everybody else in the state thinks they are idiots too (just like all the right thinking folk in the rest of sane america)

If china would just make good on their threat and nuke one or both poplulation centers then the rest of the state could go about their business... or maybe one of those russian suitcase bombs. hmmm

 

[Roland of Gilead]

It didn't occur to me that it was part of your Great Unknown. Mea culpa.
It didn't occur to you that japan being 1/3 the world's econmy was wrong either. That was what I was pointing out, was that you were wrong. Mis spoke, mis typed, 70 year old's dementia, whatever. Say "hi" to Elmer Keith for me BTW.
You're new, here, Roland, which is fine, no problem, but I suggest a bit of learning about who's here and credible, and who might be lacking in knowledge and experience.
Yes I am, and I expect I have made some enemies here with this thread. What I am not is "new" in the grand scheme of things. I haven't quite made it to my 3rd decade yet, but I didn't fall off the turnip truck last night either. Also I wasn't privy to the brainwashing that apparently ran so rampant in the McCarthy era (coming back around again, IMHO). I was young when Regan started working his voodoo, but I remember the results, and for farmers and other middle class hard working people, they weren't positive results. And I arrived at the socio-political conclusions I arrived at because I got there myself, from studying systems and historical documents myself, not just relying on Madison County Alabama Schools to educate me sufficiently. I have even travelled abroad to that socialist stronghold Europe, who you seem to think is out to get you. Life time and life experience are not always related, forgive me for not assuming you have one just because you have had the other.

 

[Strings]

cool Roland... you hit Europe. I'm happy for you. Now... have you hit any of those Third World countries yet? Actually lived among the people in Thailand, or Malasia, or China, or Africa, or...?

See... me dad's living in Thailand right now. And while, from a materialistic standpoint, the Thai people have a lower standard of living, they're VERY happy. And really, they don't need to make all that much money: they might not have ALL the things we do, they DO have quite a few. Trick is, the "things" are cheaper there...

Yes... there are places in the world where a family's mean income is less than a thousand a year. The question you have to ask is: "What's the cost of living?". When people start screaming about "those poor people in the Third World!" only making $15 a week, they don't look at the cost of living. Got news... they aren't THAT bad off. And most wouldn't be willing to trade with us for anything...

 

[Glock Glockler]

Roland,

There is a huge difference between the Arabs and the Israelis, while we do help the Israeli's which enables them a higher standard of living than they would otherwise have, the Israelis dont have oil. Please don't blame the success of Israel on the US and the failure of the Arabs on our not supporting them because we actually do give some aid to them. The Arabs biggest problem is their own stupid culture. They could be global powerhouses if they got their countries in order but they's rather point fingers elsewhere instead of doing what is necessary to succeed.

How many Arab Phd.s graduate every year?

How many books are translated into Arabic every year?

How active are Arabs in the scientific community compared to Israelis?

They just cannot get over the fact that they are not the dominant culture they were millenia ago and will only cry about it. 'It's the fault of the Zionist Jews that we havent discovered toiletpaper"

Since we are being so honest, I DO think that you are an American who said that the 12 year olds should be grateful that you give them a job that they can work for 14 hours a day, $3 a day, until they breathe enough rug fibers that get sick and are unable to make it to work one day. Then a new 12 year old gets the job and the old 12 year old gets to wheeze in his cardboard house until he has the decency to expire from malnutrition and his respritory ailment. Those paper masks are just expensive to provide your child laborers with.

Like Mickey the Pickey says "If it's a fair deal to ya, take it", if you don't like those working conditions, don't work there. My roommate was working in a refridgerant purification company and was complaining about how the crap in the air he was breathing was hurting his run and how he felt unhealthy, so he quit. Now he is doing a combination of sales, pest trapping and removal, and construction until he finds a more steady chemical engineering job. The key is taking responsibility for your own decisions, and it's obvious that you don't respect these people enough to accept their choices. They have a choice not to work there, they could do whatever they did before company X put a factory there, but they choose to take that job. It's better than what they did before.

If those rug fibers are soo nasty to breath in they should team up and do a group by for some of these, it would not even be a half a day's wages. Ain't capitalism grand

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd/product.asp?sku=ZWA-608&mscssid=MJ9RGF85VDVS9NK7GFP9FW14JN2N13WB

Now, you do know why companies started to provide healthcare to their employees, right? They figuered out that they lost production when a skilled employee could not work, but if they kept them in better health they were more productive and profitable to the company. Funny how that works, isnt it?

That is why I feel perfectly comfortable (and unashamed) to call you an ???????. Maybe the biggest, most unapologetic ??????? I've communicated with via internet. And that is really saying something, ???????.

That is pehaps one of the best compliments I have ever gotten, thank you, good sir.

BTW if your answer is to guns and ammo up, you better get started. I expect I have many of the same guns you do. So if that is how you propose to solve the world's economic problems, by all means, let's get this ????ing show on the road. You barstool commandos always are so ready to gun up. Don't I sound scared, ????????

Believe me, I'd like nothing more than to meet all thw world's socialists on a big field and settle this thing once and for all Braveheart style, but we both know that will not happen. I actually dont need to shoot anyone, free enterprise has shown itself to be vastly superior to command socialism time and time again. Through business and time my ideas will win out, just as the notion of the theocracy has no legitimacy and has largely been relegated to the dustbin of history so will the doctrine of socialism.

Mostly by keeping a small army/navy there the entire time. Also having the US as an ally to deter the Chinese from implemeting their "One China" policy until the British withdrew. Taiwan is still protected by the United States and Britian, because the United States and Britian are making the most $$ off its economy

Keeping a military there enables them to concentrate their resources on production but you have to be able to produce something in the first place. Why is it that a relatively safe country like France is economically stagnating or even contracting? I guess their superior economic model isnt working.

Cuba would be a better one, a nation that has managed to survive on a socialist system for 40 years with the world's last superpower 90 miles away trying to undermine it at every turn

It survives sooooooo well that people risk their very lives to escape it at any opportunity they can. Maybe all those people trying to swim to the US on an inner tube are just crazy and don't knwo what a sweet deal they get in Cuba, maybe we're just stupid for not trying to escape this oppressive capitalist tyranny.

 

[RealGun]

If you read some posts that are way out there and choose to respond, aren't you being baited by a troll? For some reason lately, I find that I have had to add a few THR folks to my ignore list.