Couldn't We Petition Big Brother About Norinco?

[GEM]

I'm going to denounce Chinese guns on my Chinese computer and then go watch my Chinese TV, wearing my Chinese clothes!!

If we let in Chinese guns, next thing you know, George W. Bush will try to sell our ports to some Arab country like Dhubai that was home to 2 9/11 dudes, funneled the terrorists' cash and was a conduit for North Korea and Pakistan to selll nuclear secrets to our enemies.

I think I will pick up my Chinese phone and order some good ol' American BBQ takeout to show my patriotism.

BTW, I shoot a Glock - homeland of HITLER!!

 

[Roswell 1847]

George W. Bush will try to sell our ports to some Arab country like Dhubai

You should read up on that deal a little better. The British Company that controled security on those ports wanted to sell out to Duhbai Ports. The only controversy was whether the sale of a British Company could be delayed or blocked only because they wanted to sell to an Arab company.
Doesn't pay to read only the headlines or comments on the Huffington Post.

 

[Timradcliffe345]

Since the vast majority of European surplus I've seen including Russian manufactured arms, comes from the satellite states like Poland, Yugoslavia, and Czechoslovakia Russia itself never crossed my mind.

Still "Undemocratic" is a long ways from harvesting the internal organs of political prisoners and running massive slave labor camps that build the junk Norinco sells.

I'll agree that Putin is showing his hinney by resuming long range bomber probes, thats what the Russians did in the 60's. Thats why we had F-102 interceptors flying all weather intercepts to guard our coastlines.

Now days the Russian Bombers are easy meat for our Fighters. Only purpose those flights serve is to try to tie up resources and flex muscle.

I agree that China does poorly on the human rights issue and it speaks of poor judgement to buy PRC goods. On the other hand, Russia has just as poor of a record when it comes to human rights (Chechnya amongst others). I urge people to buy US manufactured goods. It certainly doesnt hurt that it counters the trade deficit and the weak dollar. In any case, its a free country, spend your money as you wish.

 

[Roswell 1847]

PS to the Dubai thing
From Wiki

The full scope of the Khan network is not fully known. Centrifuge components were apparently manufactured in Malaysia with the aid of South Asian and German middlemen, and used a Dubai computer company as a false front. According to Western sources

So Germans and illdefined "South Asians" use a phony Computer company in Dubai as a front to have Centrifuge parts built in Malaysia.
A frien who worked for a small local company was building shock mountings for missile guidance systems and didn't know it till the first shipment was returned because they didn't pass quality control. I learned of it when he asked me to ride shotgun when we went to a small airfield at midnight to pick up the returned items. When we got there the pilot had two of his buddies riding shotgun because he was offered so much over scale for the night flight he was afraid the containers held heroin. The urgency was that the company would be fined ten thousand dollars a day if the mountings were not brought up to spec within a few days.It was funny at the time.

Tim:

Russia has just as poor of a record when it comes to human rights (Chechnya amongst others).

Chechnya? You got to be kidding.
Besides, as I said I don't buy Russian, though I hadn't given it much thought.
Putin only recently began showing his true colors.

PS
GEM
The first time I saw the insides of a Glock I figured it was a lemon, and the guy that owned that one shot the end of his finger off with it later on, don't ask me how. I've seen enough photos of Glock breechs peeled like bannas not to consider one.
Now all you need in a PRC Clone of a Glock. They can make them from tooth fillings from the Prisoners they work to death, and recycled two liter Pepsi Bottles.

 

[no_problem]

<<I'd like to see some cheap Chinese stuff come back.>>

We don't have a Lobbying group.

 

[Roswell 1847]

BTW
GEM
Check your Computer if its like mine it was made in Taiwan. Taiwan is the good China . Taiwan good, PRC (Red China) BAD, can you remember that?

 

[ROMAK IV]

Clinton banned then because he could! The 922 part of the law allows him to do so. It had nothing to do with the Communist part of China, because, as we know, all kinds of things are imported from China. China had bent over backwards, and modified their product line to comply with GHW Bush's import restrictions on "assault Weapons." It was easy, because China was exporting newly manufactured firearms, not, as in the case of other countries' SKS's, C&R firearms. I guess you have figured out, that new made SKS's couldn't be imported by any country into the US, and the ban on AK's is similiar. So how is it any better that China can't export certain firearms to the US, but can export poisoned pet food and toys with lead paint? Who is getting hurt here?

 

[Gunnerpalace]

Are we actually talking about banning guns?

If I want a Chinese M-14 I should be able to get one and not have to spend 1200 for a SA.

 

[buck00]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/BUSINESS/12/14/china.ustrade.ap/

Just hours after diplomatic sendoffs were exchanged at a resort outside Beijing, the U.S. Commerce Department said America's trade deficit with China jumped 9.1 percent to $25.9 billion in October, a record for a single month.

So far this year, the U.S. trade imbalance with China is running at an annual rate of $256 billion, on track to surpass last year's record high of $233 billion, which is greater than in any other country.

Its pretty foolish to think we are "taking a stand" and "hitting China in the wallet" by not buying Norinco SKS and AKs. We pump a TON of money into China through other trade if you look at the numbers. Getting rifles from them wouldn't even be a drop in the bucket.

I think more trade is the way to convert China. Little by little they are becoming more capitalist (despite all the goose stepping and posters of Mao). It will be the same way we beat the Soviets- not through war but economics.

I'd love to see the Norinco ban lifted, but fat chance with the political climate.

 

[Mannlicher]

I have no problems with not supporting the chinese Military. They own Norinco.

 

[Roswell 1847]

but can export poisoned pet food and toys with lead paint? Who is getting hurt here?

And those products were recalled at great expense to the importers and exporters, or hadn't you heard. At least one Chinese plant wheel committed suicide over these screw ups.
When contaminated drugs caused deaths the man responsible was executed.

I have no problems with not supporting the chinese Military. They own Norinco.

Well at least Mannlicher gets the point.

Norinco ran SPIES into the US.
Norinco cut a deal with what they thought to be Mob connected arms merchants to deliver 2,000 full auto AKs to underworld end users and bragged they could bring in 300,000 more.
Norinco agents sold Chinese SAM missiles to undercover FBI agents delivered into the US.
What more evidence do you guys need that Norinco was not kosher?

As for the flood of substandard crapola coming into the US from China, stop buying it and Wally World will stop restocking it.

If a privately owned company in mainland China produces a decent product more power to them, but Norinco is owned by the Chinese Military and their products are highly suspect at best.
The Chinese Military Industries use Slave Labor, some of those slaves were condemned to that living hell for no other reason than they were Christians who were suspected of praying in their own homes rather than in the State run meeting houses run by Communist Atheist overseers.


At the present time our government can not cut off all trade with China because only China has a productive Rare Eaths mine in full operation.
Rare Earths are necessary for the magnets used in our Cruise Missiles.
A Liberal Democrat (read Marxist) ex Clintonista gained control of the only North American company which produced those magnets, patents and all, and moved the whole shebang to mainland China.
We need rare earths, the EPA closed our only mine, so we still deal with the Chinese.

 

[redactor]

What many people fail to realize (I think), is that every weapon that we buy from an enemy nation is ONE LESS that they will have to use against us.

 

[ilbob]

The reason nothing is made in America anymore is because we don't want anything made here. Just try to get permission to build a factory anywhere in this country and you will realize just why very little is made here anymore.

For the most part it is not about labor costs, although that is a part of it. It is that no company can afford to wait five or more years for permission to be granted to build a new factory.

Don't like the price of gasoline? Guess why it is so high. No new refineries have been built in the US for nearly 40 years.

Don't like importing foreign oil? I bet you can guess why we need all that foreign oil (hint - the US has about 200 years worth of coal in the ground in existing mines, many that are now shutdown).

The company I work for wants to expand its operations. The village we live in decided in its infinite wisdom that our little plot of ground is more suitable for retail or a hotel. So guess what? We are having to move. No doubt the village will mourn the loss of jobs and get some federal or state grant for retraining of dislocated workers. But guess who dislocated those workers?

 

[Roswell 1847]

What many people fail to realize (I think), is that every weapon that we buy from an enemy nation is ONE LESS that they will have to use against us.

China sells Ak's to obtain cash for its spy operations and to obtain funds for raw materials needed for more advanced weaponry. They are phasing out the AK all together so each AK they sell relieves their overstock problems and the AK assembly lines act as machine operator and management training facilities for producing newer more effective weapons. They want to use up their old tooling, as they do production quality drops.

The more AK's the Chinese sell the more newer and more effective designs they can produce.

Who knows, if Chavez is finally ousted you might be able to buy new production AKs from Venezulela when a truly democratic administration takes office. Chavez has his plants going full blast while claiming to have peaceful intentions.

 

[Deanimator]

Whether you accept it or not, China is still communist controlled.

China is "communist" in the same sense that the Mafia are "Sicilian patriots". It's all just rhetoric.

China has returned to its preferred form of government, authoritarian kleptocracy.

Communist ideology in China is like an arcane religion in a science fiction novel, descended from some distant technological past.

Money talks, Maoism walks. If he thought it'd enhance his power and the national cashflow, Hu Jin Tao would adopt Scientology as the national creedo.

 

[ArmedBear]

BTW, I shoot a Glock - homeland of HITLER!!

Austria exiled Hitler. He didn't come back until he had an army and an air force to back him up, in 1938.

China, however, hasn't exactly exiled their ideology. Maybe it's not "communism", but it is murderous authoritarianism.

China has mobile execution teams, with four men in a minibus, to help speed up executions. Some in China say that 10,000 people annually are executed, often with only a brief "hearing."

http://www.omnicenter.org/justicecollection/deathpenalty.htm

Now I'm in favor of capital punishment for those who really deserve it, but somehow I doubt that the people executed by the Chinese are all guilty of multiple premeditated murder or anything.

 

[Roswell 1847]

China is "communist" in the same sense that the Mafia are "Sicilian patriots". It's all just rhetoric.

Speaking of Marxist Ideology reminds me of Jurrasic Park II, like the scientist says "First its all ohhing and Ahhing, then its the running and screaming".

Maoism is a Marxist vs Stalinist Communism, like the Hutu and the Tutsi only they can tell the difference at first glance.

ps
They shoot the prisoners in the neck to paralyse them then stuff the body into a waiting van where the organs are harvested while the heart is still beating. Sometimes the dying prisoner is conscious throughout. They don't use any pain killers because those would contaiminate the organs and reduce their market value.

 

[Joe Demko]

They shoot the prisoners in the neck to paralyse them then stuff the body into a waiting van where the organs are harvested while the heart is still beating. Sometimes the dying prisoner is conscious throughout. They don't use any pain killers because those would contaiminate the organs and reduce their market value.

Cite?

 

[Roswell 1847]

Cite?

The procedure has been described in TV interviews with those who witnessed it, its been a few years so finding anything on the net would take time.
For a long time Pro Commie propagandists in the US had people believing it was an urban Legend but a couple of years ago a High Ranking member of the Red Chinese Government went public because he objected to the way the harvested organs were distributed. He had no problem with chopping up prisoners, he just figured everyone should have an even chance on the organ transplant waiting list. Plus every heart and kidney sold in Europe for profit meant one Chinese Citizen who would not get his transplant.

Wei Jingsheng, an agitator at Columbia University's Human Rights Center, testified before the International Relations Committee and Government Reform & Oversight Committee of the U.S. House of Representatives on June 4, 1998, that while he was on death row a guard confided that often organ removal is the means of execution in and of itself. Wei, who now heads his own foundation in Washington, D.C., stated that the guard told him, "There are almost no exceptions. They first are given anesthesia. Just the same as killing a pig. . . . We use cloth to wrap them up and bring them to the execution ground. No one cares if they are alive or dead."

Further, Wei said he had confirmed, through a plan hatched with a 20-year-old cellmate, that executed prisoners were being harvested against their will. The young man, whom he called Zhang, was to cry out, "I'm not sick, I don't need a doctor," if he saw a medical team equipped to harvest his organs waiting at his execution. If there was no evidence of this, Zhang was to scream as the condemned normally would.

After a long stretch of silence, Zhang sent the message. "My first feeling was of satisfaction, knowing that this evidence finally proved this practice. But this feeling was quickly replaced by another," Wei told the congressional committees. "My second feeling was of heaviness, knowing that this young man used his life to record an unbelievable crime. If I did not have the opportunity to tell others of this evil, if I did not have the opportunity to try and stop this evil from continuing, then I would have to apologize to this young man. All this time, I have deeply felt this responsibility. We must stop this practice."

Harry Wu spent 19 years in the laogai, and has also testified before Congress. His Laogai Research Foundation claims that when bullets are used, the target reflects the market: a shot to the head when a liver's wanted, a shot to the chest when corneas are in demand. Amnesty International also reports that a form of lethal injection gaining acceptance in China can be used to kill without damaging crucial organs, and can blur the line between life and death.
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0118/baard.php

And here
http://www.hrw.org/reports/1994/china1/china_948.htm

There is evidence, moreover, that official execution procedures are ignored when they make removal of desirable organs less convenient. As was noted above, Human Rights Watch/Asia has received reports of kidneys having been removed from prisoners on the night prior to their executions.(75) Still more shocking is the revelation -- made authoritatively in an official Chinese law textbook -- that executions are sometimes deliberately botched so that the victims' bodies can be kept alive longer, thereby making organ transplantation procedures more viable. According to the official source, "A very few localities, in order to be able to use particular organs from the criminals' bodies, even go so far as to deliberately avoid killing them completely when carrying out the death sentence, so as to preserve live tissue."(76) In other words, vivisection sometimes occurs.

"deliberately Botched" , bullet goes in neck rather than brain.

 

[RKBABob]

Don't we get enough cheap stuff from China already?

I, for one, am looking forward to the day when I can get my hands on a good, suede upholstered 7 1/2 shot French revolver! Of course, some people seem to think that the French Empire is the root of all evil... They wouldn't go to war when they weren't attacked, after all. but China's our good buddy, right?

 

[Roswell 1847]

I, for one, am looking forward to the day when I can get my hands on a good, suede upholstered 7 1/2 shot French revolver!

There actually was a special edition seude handled Colt Detective special with gold plated cylinder made by a Fashion Designer named Bjian. He was Arab but lived in France.
One thing you can say for it, it had the finest bluing I've seen on a Snubnose. Highest possible polish and black as jet.
The grips weren't bad looking either but the gold cylinder made it look gaudy and cheap.
I say this because my Brother once bought a lousy .22 revolver that had a real gold plated cylinder from a Jewler in Mexico in the early 60's. It had nice bluing also but the gun was an el cheapo saturdaynight special, hardly worth bringing home.

 

[RKBABob]

There actually was a special edition seude handled Colt Detective special with gold plated cylinder made by a Fashion Designer named Bjian. He was Arab but lived in France.

Boy, do I have the French figured out, or what?

 

[Beatnik]

So they're harvesting organs - so what?
We're paying money to see polymerized homeless Chinese people playing soccer in a museum. We're encouraging their despicable behavior on our own soil. Why should we care if they harvest organs on their soil?


Does anyone else see the irony in the federal government having the express power to cut off economic ties to China, and not doing it - and being expressly denied the power to stop ANWR drilling, and doing that?

 

[Prince Yamato]

China sells Ak's to obtain cash for its spy operations and to obtain funds for raw materials needed for more advanced weaponry.

Oh and like the USA doesn't sell weapons to rogue states and finance other shady operations?

I personally could care less what China and its people do to each other. It's none of my business. There's 1.2 billion Chinese. If the country gets that out of hand, they can start another revolution. Until that time however, I want a Norinco Type 56 "sporter".

Threads like this make me want to "buy foreign" just to spite the "Patriot" crowd.

 

[AntiqueCollector]

Oh and like the USA doesn't sell weapons to rogue states and finance other shady operations?

I personally could care less what China and its people do to each other. It's none of my business. There's 1.2 billion Chinese. If the country gets that out of hand, they can start another revolution. Until that time however, I want a Norinco Type 56 "sporter".

Threads like this make me want to "buy foreign" just to spite the "Patriot" crowd.

Unless you're buying weapons from the U.S. government, you wouldn't be supporting any such actions anymore so than paying your taxes does. With Norinco, though, it's entirely different as you are giving money directly to the Chinese government, not private individuals.