Cowboy Load versus Half Cock
- Thread starter FHBrumb
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CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Colt never put an octagon on the SAA.......but they should have! 
BobWright
Member
About the most useless "safety" device anyone could come up with. One of the requirements for a safety is that it be instantly disengaged. It did get the guns into this country, though.
Bob Wright
Miami_JBT
Member
I don't even recall Ruger being sued for the original design. They're just more litigiously minded from what I recall.
Miami_JBT
Member
My Uberti that I purchased close to 20 years ago came with the "Swiss Safety" and the "Hammer Block Safety".
My gun is a replica of the pre-1896 "black powder frame" and doesn't have a spring-loaded base pin latch, instead it has the older cylinder pin retaining screw. First thing I did with mine was get rid of the longer base pin with a traditional length one.
Since the gun also came with a hammer block safety, it is safe to carry with all six rounds. Best part is, it still has four clicks.
Hammer Block safety on the right.
The way it works, a little steel block physically keeps the hammer from going forward if the safety notch is broken.
Uberti moved away from that and instead now does a transfer bar or a floating retractable firing pin.
I much prefer the hammer block safety.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
The whole reason for the New Model action was Ruger losing lawsuits from folks who had a negligent discharge.
Uberti doesn't have a transfer bar or a floating firing pin. They have a retractable firing pin.
Miami_JBT
Member
Retractable/floating.... same thing, different wording.
And they did have a transfer bar safety too at one time.
Cowboy Time Machine: Uberti Replaces SAA Transfer Bar w/Glock Style Floating Pin – Cattleman II Review
Uberti takes the classic SAA and adds safe carry of a sixth round!
Jim Watson
Member
Half cock? There is a difference between half cock and quarter cock/safety notch. At half cock, the cylinder turns freely for loading and unloading.
There was always the Freedom Arms Model 97 Premier Grade, only $3021 with octagon barrel.
Winchester charged a whopping $2 extra for an octagon barrel on a lever action, but still sold more octagon than round barrels.
At least two suits that I know of. One was a kid who stole the gun and shot himself in the leg with it when he dropped it. Sued Ruger and won. Ruger later won on appeal.
964 F2d 376 Yarbrough v. Sturm Ruger & Co | OpenJurist
m.openjurist.org
Another one happened in Germany. Guy dropped a gun and shot another guy in the ankle. Ruger and the dropper were both found liable.
The suit contains a bit of information that provides insight into this question:
"Ever wonder why Ruger got taken to court so many times it forced them into switching to a transfer bar system, while during the same time Colt continued to build and sell their traditional SAAs with the original action and are still doing so?"
"Our research has turned up a case in Missouri similar to the case at bar, which we need to discuss and differentiate. In Bender v. Colt Industries, Mo.App., 517 S.W.2d 705 (1974), Bender was injured when a revolver which he had purchased from a retailer fell from his hunting coat pocket onto a concrete platform. The gun discharged and struck Bender in the face. The gun was a Colt single-action revolver and was the predecessor of the .357-magnum Blackhawk. The safety mechanism was identical and "Defendant's expert witness acknowledged that Colt had always had trouble with the sear; it had known for years that it was fragile and likely to break. Plaintiff [Bender] had no knowledge of this defect. Plaintiff's expert ... testified that the fracture and displacement of the sear caused the gun to discharge." The manufacturer therein interjected the "Exact Replica" theory, which would eliminate it from liability. "
So apparently there's some defense that Colt could use for their guns since they were an Exact Replica of an older model. But that defense wasn't available to Ruger's revolvers which were a new design unto themselves.
Anyway, the suits resulted in the "Read the Manual" warning stamp and probably the transfer bar design update.
By the way, one of the incidents is instructive. It wasn't the person who loaded the gun with 6 and dropped it that got shot. When you make the decision to do something like that, you're making the decision for those around you, not just for you. Just something to think about for the people in the: "It's my gun and I'll do what I want with it." camp. That works fine as long as you stay out of gunshot range of anyone with a different mindset.
Jim Watson
Member
There was a period of time when Colt was sending out SAAs with the hammers strapped down and a note that they were for display and collection, not shooting.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Nope, two completely different things.Retractable/floating.... same thing, different wording.
And they did have a transfer bar safety too at one time.
Cowboy Time Machine: Uberti Replaces SAA Transfer Bar w/Glock Style Floating Pin – Cattleman II Review
Uberti takes the classic SAA and adds safe carry of a sixth round!www.gunsamerica.com
Rugers, New and Old, have a floating firing pin. The firing pin "floats" in the frame. It is not attached to the hammer.
The Uberti has a retractable firing pin, that only protrudes if the trigger is held back. The firing pin is still attached to the hammer, i.e., not floating.
The Cattleman II has a retractable firing pin, not a transfer bar. The only thing associated with Uberti to have a transfer bar is the Stampede they made for Beretta. Uberti has never used a transfer bar on their branded guns, or those of any of their importers. You obviously didn't read the article you linked.
Miami_JBT
Member
Uberti makes guns, they made the Beretta Stampede. And since Beretta owns them, saying Uberti didn't make a gun with a transfer bar is like saying GM never made a luxury car since Cadillac is its own brand under the GM umbrella and that luxury model wasn't sold with a GM badge instead.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Here's what I said.
"Uberti doesn't have a transfer bar or a floating firing pin. They have a retractable firing pin."
There has never been a single action with a transfer bar and Uberti's name on it. They made the Stampede under contract for Beretta, BEFORE Beretta owned them. Legal records will show the manufacturer as Beretta.
slicksleeve
Member
Uberti 1873 Horseman NM Revolver 356090, 45 Colt, 4.75", 1-Piece Walnut Grip, Blue Case-Hardened Steel Frame For Sale | Uberti Firearms USA
Uberti 1873 Horseman Revolver: The 1873 Horseman revolver has the fit, feel and finish of original Old West models. However, its modern upgrades make this
ubertifirearms.com
Jackrabbit1957
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Uberti does or did market stuff with a firing pin and or hammer block thing, lots of monkey motion in it. I do have have an 1875 Remington by Uberti that had that hammer block set up, it was dismantled way before I got it. The Remmie has an octagon barrel like what the OP was looking for.
Yup. That's the internet I guess. A question about a specific thing turns into a debate about something. Should have seen that coming.
Thank you to those that actually discussed why half cock isn't a good substitute for load one skip one.
The rest of this was how many angels cab dance on the head of a pin...
I had a Pietta with a transfer bar a while back. It was a "Cabelas" marked gun. I currently have an EAA with the bar. I know they are put there, just can't find an octagon.
Thank you to those that actually discussed why half cock isn't a good substitute for load one skip one.
The rest of this was how many angels cab dance on the head of a pin...
I had a Pietta with a transfer bar a while back. It was a "Cabelas" marked gun. I currently have an EAA with the bar. I know they are put there, just can't find an octagon.
Jim Watson
Member
Miami JBT (post #30) is the first I have seen to say he depended on the early Uberti hammer block.
I wonder why it did not catch on.
Me?
I have shot Colt, ASM, Uberti, Ruger, and S&W single actions but only for CAS where you are limited to five loaded in any revolver.
I wonder why it did not catch on.
Me?
I have shot Colt, ASM, Uberti, Ruger, and S&W single actions but only for CAS where you are limited to five loaded in any revolver.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
I see no reason for anyone to get their knickers in a twist. Discussions are organic. They ebb and flow as they do. Is this your first time discussing guns with others?
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