CPS called on me and girlfriend because I own guns.

[BhmBill]

Some of you may remember this thread....

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=446895

I suggest reading post #5 before reading this, it'll make much more sense.

Let me explain what happened...

I moved in with my girlfriend (it's her house) and she had her friend (shes 37 or 38 years old, btw) living with her. Her friend didn't pay any bills other than $40 for the cable "dvr" box thing, she is unemployed. I do pay my gf money for the bills and mortgage, every month. Anyways, we'd been living like this the last few months no problem. My gf's friend went and stayed with her mom about 2 weeks ago for a lil over a week because her mom was having surgery, It didn't matter to me one way or another. While she was gone, I began open carrying and when her friend came back, I was sitting on the couch with my revolver sitting next to me on the couch, pointed away from everyone (we'd just gotten home and my belt had broken so my holster wasn't holding up the 40oz+ revolver very well, that's the only reason I had it out of the holster).

The friend started asking why I had it out, I told her why, "My belt broke and the holster keeps sliding around back(to the 5 - 6 o'clock position) so I took it out and set it down because the kids were in bed". She shook her head and a few mins later asked if I left it sitting out all the time, I said "no, this is the first time, and it's only out because the kids are aslee and my belt broke". She shook her head and waits a few mins before asking "So you just leave it out so her (my gf) kids can play with it?", I told her again, "No, it's only out because it's too uncomfortable to wear it until I get another belt tomorrow". She shook her head some more and I went to bed (about 11pm at this time).

The friend leaves and the next day my GF gets a call from her ex husband and he starts giving her the 3rd degree about my guns and how i'm a irresponsible and arrogant gun owner (because I bought a 1967 Merc a few days before, the guy I bought it from was a cop and asked if I had a permit to carry which isnt necessary, i just told him it was registered and that was that) and he wants to make sure that the home is safe. Apparently the friend went and told him, or told another person who told him about my guns, where they were, what I had, etc.

I wasn't too happy about it.

The next day the friend tells my gf she doesn't want to come over anymore because all me and the friend did was fight, which we didn't, I have no idea why she said that. The day after that she says she doesn't want to come over because of my guns (I've had guns here since the beginning of the year, kept my 870 loaded for defense until I got my S&W 581 .357. But I don't think the friend knew this) and she doesn't feel safe. My gf tried to tell her about guns, but I told her "Forget it, don't waste your breath, let her believe what she wants, you think you're gonna convince her guns aren't evil after she ditched you because she saw my revolver ONCE?". I wasn't tryin to get involved, but this friend of my gf's said some very hurtful and out of line things to my GF that I cannot say on here. It's great having a very pro-rkba girlfriend.

The friend came and got her stuff today and left, me and gf aren't sad or anything. She doesn't believe the friend was a true friend, the friend made no attempt to stay friends and said nothing but "I'm leaving", "youre a bad mother", and "your bf is a psycho gun owner", even after my girlfriend wanted to stay friends, blah blah blah.

I offered to take her shooting months ago, and she scoffed at the idea of it. I occasionally told her stuff about guns as I learned it (self defense stories, legislation, etc), but she disregarded it and didn't care to hear it, so I just stopped telling her about the RKBA or anything related to it, long before she left.

Am I wrong for not pushing the subject harder? Not talking to her more about it? I had no desire to keep telling her about the 2nd amendment or anything. She's a simpleton and doesn't care to hear anything that may differ or object with her opinion and beliefs, so I made the choice to not waste my breath. Did I make any bad moves/choices? I never once told my girlfriend to kick her out or anything even remotely close to it, other than to let her believe what she wanted about guns, it was purely her choice to leave.

Well.... 2 days ago my girlfriend was at work and got a text from a Friend (herein will be known as "Friend #2"), Friend #2 went off on my girlfriend because she heard from the ex-friend (From my original post. the one who bummed off my girlfriend. Herein will be known as Friend #1), that I had guns in the house.

Friend #2 said my girlfriend was crazy, a user (IDK how? I guess because she let Friend #1 live with her... rent free), a bad mother, unsafe, etc. and called me a "slob" (among other things), because me and my gf own guns and keep them in the house. Friend #2 tells my GF that having guns in the house is considered "child endangerment" and that she is mandated to inform CPS or LE (which she is). This woman did indeed call/write/inform the Child Protective Services about me, my gf, and our guns, claiming that the children were in "dire/imminent/impending physical danger" (or something like that, idk how it was worded), but not before Friend #2 told my GF that she "hopes one of the kids gets a gun and shoots the other in the face".... yeah... this came from a woman who runs a daycare and has administered corporal punishment upon my GF's son without her consent.... pretty sickening.

Yesterday, just over 12 hours after Friend #2 told my GF that she was calling the police/CPS because of "child endangerment", apparently CPS showed up at my GF's sons school and questioned him.

They basically interrogated him. They/She (the CPS specialist) asked him if me and my gf abused drugs or were alcoholics, he told the truth and said "no".

They asked him if me and my gf fought and hurt eachother, again he told the truth and said "no".

They asked if me or my gf ever hurt her son or daughter physically/sexually barf, he, of course, told the truth and said "no".

They asked if he could get into my guns and "play with them", he again told the truth and said "No. The guns are kept in a safe and we can only touch them if we ask and mom or Billy is watching."

They ask if he could get the key to the safe, he basically told her "No, why would I? Guns aren't toys".

They didn't get the answers they needed to take him into protective custody, so they came over to my GF's house, where I was with her daughter. When she arrived, I did not know she had already talked to my GF's son.

She knocks on the door, I go to condition orange, check the peep hole, and answer the door. She says shes from CPS and here to talk to me and my gf's daughter because there are allegations of physical risk and harm to the children. She asks to come inside and starts walking forward like she was coming in before I answered, of course I told her "NO, you may not come inside". I do not know her, no idea who she is, and claims to work for the government.... yeah... shes not my friend and im not gonna treat her like one, absolutely no reason to trust her. She was all surprised (I guess these people just expect everyone to let them in) and sad because I made her stand outside (I didn't invite her over and it's not my fault it was 90+ degrees). So she starts asking questions, asking if me and the gf fight, if were drunks, do drugs, etc.... I answered truthfully. She soon asks to speak to my gf's daughter. I told her hold on, I gather up my guns that I had out on the table, put em in the safe, and get the daughter and tell her someone is here to talk to her.

This next part was kind of humorous....

The gf's daughter comes downstairs, I open the door and tell her this woman wants to talk to her. My gf's daughter STOPPED in her tracks, looked at me, looked at her, looked at me, looked at her, looked at me and waited for me to tell her what to do. At first she didn't wanna talk, I don't blame her, and of course did not approach the CPS lady. She did GREAT! She didn't approach or talk to the stranger (note: I only told her this woman wanted to talk to her, I didn't say the daughter had to talk to her), which made me very happy. The CPS lady took note of this (I assume as a positive note). After some begging and pleading as I just stood there, the CPS lady called my GF at work and asked her to tell her daughter to please talk to her (I sure as hell wasn't going to make the kid do anything she didn't want to), she gave the phone to her daughter and told her it's okay to talk to her, they said goodbyes and love yous, and hung up.

The daughter finally started talking after alot of "friendly" and "come play" talk from the woman. I just stood there as she questioned the daughter.

She asked the daughter alot of the same questions....

The funniest ones were when the lady asked "Does anyone in the house hurt you?"

The daughter said "YEAH!", the CPS lady says "REALLY?! WHO HURTS YOU?"

She says.... "OUR DIXIE DOODLE! SHES OUR DOGGIE. SOMETIMES SHE BITES AND SCRATCHES ME!"

I had to look away and laugh.

The CPS lady asked her if anyone was mean to her and fought with her, the daughter said "YEAH!", the lady again says "REALLY?! WHO?!"

The daughter says "MY BROTHER! SOMETIMES HE DOESN'T SHARE HIS CANDY OR TOYS."

I looked away again to laugh.

She asked if she was allowed to play with my guns or anything, she told the truth and said "No! you don't play with guns!"; not bad for a 4 year old!

Overall it was very musing and humorous to me. The lady says she'll be back in the morning around 7am to talk to the daughter again and inspect the house.

Had anything been wrong, by law, the CPS lady could of taken my gf's son and daughter away on the spot.

None of this is funny to my gf though. She's 8 months pregnant, has done nothing wrong, and has CPS investigating her for child neglect/abuse, and she is having to miss work over this. We were too happy with the overall situation (who would be?).


Soooo.. this morning rolls around. The woman arrives, talks to me and my gf, questions the daughter and basically repeats the same questions she did the day before, inspects the house (makes sure theres food, running water, power, looks at the gun safe, etc.), apologizes for wasting our time, agrees that guns are fine around children and should be taught about them, and tells us we'd be receiving a "all clear" letter in 5 - 6 weeks from her, but that we shouldn't wait up because everything was better than just "okay".

Overall interview time over 2 days was maybe 1 hour 30 minutes. Done deal.

Lots of unnecessary stress on all of us (gf slept maybe 2 hours last night) and it's even sadder that Friend #2 wasted this CPS womans time when she could of actually been helping children who really need her.

Friend #2 had to sugar coat what she told them, because simply having guns in the house isn't enough for them to come investigate, let alone push aside other cases to investigate us (which the CPS lady told me she did). Friend #2 based her opinion and allegations on EXTREMELY BIASED HEARSAY from Friend #1.

I guess I needed to vent a little.

People, please educate children about guns and gun safety. Teach them about the 2nd amendment like you'd teach them history, reading, writing, etc.

Did I mess up anywhere? Are we really at fault? Was the situation handled as good as it could have been?

Phew. My fingers are tired.

 

[neverjeg]

GF needs new friends.

 

[blkbrd666]

inspects the house (makes sure theres food, running water, power, looks at the gun safe, etc.),

I wonder how they raised kids before running water, power and gun safes??? It's a damn miracle we're all here...ya know?

 

[kwelz]

You handled it much better than I would have.

 

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

So called Friend #1 is just pissed at you because you ruined her free ride.

And yes---she needs to rid her life of those catty b--ches.

 

[BhmBill]

She is distancing herself from people like this.

Friend #1 and Friend #2 are trying to talk to her friends and spread their misinformation.

If someone believes 2nd hand biased hearsay and turns their back on a friend like these 2 did... then, they aren't much of friend, are they?

A friend would support another friend, whether you like their opinion or not.

So far every one of these misinformation spreading "friends" has claimed to "know the law" and "knows guns", but say it's illegal for us to own guns, or to have them around kids, or my rifles are "machine guns", etc.

I've studied damn near every municipal, county, state, and federal firearm law, on top of the 2nd, 4th, and 5th amendment. Anything that pertains to me and guns, and they try to tell me we don't know what were talking about.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Did I mess up anywhere? Are we really at fault? Was the situation handled as good as it could have been?

No you didn't mess up. But, if GF does not IMMEDIATELY AND FOREVER sever ties with the friends you need to consider hitting the door.

If she's got vindictive friends you might be the next target. Just be careful. One nutcase and a restraining order and you are Lautenberg'd right into no guns.

 

[mbt2001]

Some friends...

I don't know why chicks do stuff like that. My mother in law is that way, by that I mean anti-gun. Long story short, it has made our life way more complicated for no reason other than she doesn't like guns... or me apparently.

So we quit talking / visiting and the like. Cause / Effect.

 

[BhmBill]

She is going through her rolo-dex-o-friends and reconsidering who she hangs and associates with.

Man, I can't even think straight.

I need to go shooting this weekend!

 

[EP1990]

no. you did the right thing. people like that are difficult to get to about stuff like that. dont even try to teach them because people like that dont care, they are a "simpleton" as you say, they will believe what they think and nothing else. i had a teacher like that who was very anti-gun. i got on to her one day. She posted an opinion comic, a guy hunter with a gun, above the hunter it said Assault rifle, except with the assault crossed out and replaced hunting rifle. then during the discussion she mentioned several bullets coming out at once. basically i went on and was like "the only thing that makes that an assault rifle is that it can hold more then 10 bullets. (the hunter was holding an ak), also that rifle is not a full automatic, it is semi automatic. civilians cannot own fully automatic rifles unless they have a class three gun license, which is very difficult to obtain because of the restrictions," i told her she probably didnt even know the difference so i went on to explain to her what they were. at the end i said "and by the way, multiple bullets do not come out all at once. they come out one at a time, just in rapid succession." she still did not seem to understand and i just left anything and everything that dealt with firearms alone. i have been in multiple situations like that and not one of them seem to get it.

 

[jaholder1971]

This whole thing sounds like an episode of Jerry Springer.

Time to find your own place. Shacking up with some chick with kids, an angry ex and a bunch of girlfriends who haven't matured beyond high school is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Sniper X]

Serriously, I would go to a lawyer and talk about sueing the bigmouth idiot for slander. I would scare the crap out of that idiot, so the next time she lets her way left political feelings take control of her brains, she will maybe think twice. I would also have a talk with the police about maybe bringing her up on making a flase report based on absolutely no knowledge of wrong doing. I had a lady one time who saw me carrying a gun, as I always do. She told a police officer I was brandishing it and was a danger by carrying it. I got a quick questioning, and after a call to see if I was clean of warrants and a check on the serial numbers on the gun, I had the cop take a report for her making a false report. I heard later she got a citation and had to go to court! We need to d something to keep these poeple from trying to run our lives.

 

[John Wayne]

You should have told the CPS woman that your girlfriend's friend leaves kitchen knives out for your children to play with while your guns are responsibly locked in the safe

 

[BhmBill]

Thank you Gentlemen.

Time to find your own place. Shacking up with some chick with kids, an angry ex and a bunch of girlfriends who haven't matured beyond high school is a recipe for disaster.

The ex husband has come around, btw. He's asking me for gun advice now and wants my help.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Hell hath no fury...

Anyone who tries to get the government to take action against me is not, and never will be my friend. Being angry, not speaking, or saying bad things about people is normal for people having a fight. But the moment they try to get the government to actually ruin your life, I would never be able to tolerate hearing their name for the rest of my life. I would advise you seeing if your GF can cut off all, and I mean all contact with the friends who tried to sic CPS on you. And all contact meaning, when said friend is getting married in 10 years and finally wants to patch things up and sends an invitation, burn said invitation on the porch. That kind of cutting off contact.

And like another poster said, if you can afford it, see if you can sue her for slander. I'm pretty sure CPS would have to have detailed reports of the accusations, so if you've got the lawyer money, you may have a decent case.

 

[Yellowfin]

Sue the ex-friend for defamation and/or CPS for going along with it. Yes I am serious. This stuff needs to be made an example of in court so that others like yourself will have precedent to fight this kind of crap if it gets worse for them in the future.

 

[BhmBill]

I believe Friend #2 (note, i'm only calling them "friend" for the sake of simplicity. It's easier than "former friend b***h #1") called the CPS anonymously (the CPS agent mentioned that it most likely was an anonymous tip).

So yeah.. they're both cowards too.

Not trying to get low road here, but man... I can't express how upset I am over this situation.

The CPS lady said If they attempt to call CPS again or try harass us further, then we should take legal action. I wouldn't hesitate, but money is somewhat tight with the baby on the way.

 

[rbernie]

Anyone who tries to get the government to take action against me is not, and never will be my friend. Being angry, not speaking, or saying bad things about people is normal for people having a fight. But the moment they try to get the government to actually ruin your life, I would never be able to tolerate hearing their name for the rest of my life. I would advise you seeing if your GF can cut off all, and I mean all contact with the friends who tried to sic CPS on you. And all contact meaning, when said friend is getting married in 10 years and finally wants to patch things up and sends an invitation, burn said invitation on the porch. That kind of cutting off contact.

Pretty much so. I believe that we should make no room in our lives for people like this.

Best of luck, and sorry you had to go through it...

 

[Squeaky Duck]

I've been dragged through similar crap. Best thing to do is cut ALL ties to these two former friends once and for all. Seriously. Otherwise they will somehow always pop up and cause grief for you at any opportunity. Yeah it sucks, but otherwise you will be letting these yahoos run your lives as they see fit.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

if her friends were men smacking em might be in order as it is they hide safely.

 

[SSN Vet]

Dude....

The first question at the door for any CPS type is "do you have a warrant".

And you're much better off if you can record the conversation with a tape or cam corder.

They can and will lie to you, telling you that they have this or that authority... and they haven't broken any rules or laws.

They are accountable to no one...

Reality is.... no warrant... no power to do anything.

They can take your kids away from you and put them in foster care with a pedophile and you have not recourse against them after the damage is done.

 

[Ned Kelly]

Even though you are cleared your GFs name is in the system now. If another complaint is filed they may take the children no questions asked. At least that is my understanding.

The damage to your standing with the child and welfare services computer database is there. You could sue for slander. It may actually be in your best interest to sue because the same person could try to pull this again on you.

It's a big mistake to turn someone in and let the people you turned in know who you are. CPS will not divulge a persons name for that reason.

The CPS worker did her job. They have to pursue every complaint and examine it thoroughly.

They have a lot of power and authority too. I know a lady who used to be a Social worker. We were discussing all that stuff about warrants and what not. CPS is above the Constitution. They can bring a law officer and go in your house without a warrant.

 

[Squeaky Duck]

I forgot to mention, sounds like you did good with teaching your kids about guns ...

 

[redneckdan]

My family was the victim of a similar type episode while I was growing up. One day at school (grade school age) I was pulled out of class by the prinicpal and taken to a small room where it was just me and this offical looking female (the CPS worker) who started asking questions about my parents and if there were guns in the house. My parents had always told me from a very young age that if I ever felt uncomfortable at school to call them and they would immediately come help me. I asked the lady if I could make a phone call and she said that I could not and needed to co-operate or otherwise she would get the police involved. By now I really knew this was not a good situtation and I shut up until she got frustrated and went to get the principal. As soon as the door opened I relized now was my chance; I launched out of my seat, out the door opening, jinked between the two security guard (the CPS worker told them in no uncertain terms to stop me) and ran the fastest mile of my life back home. My mom was waiting for me because the neighbor on the corner from the school house was a family friend and when he said 'hello' to me as a ran past and I never bothered to slow down, he knew something was wrong. Needless to say, my dad went down to the principals office and raised holy hell. Come to find out it was a new on the job GPS worker trying to make a name for herself.

 

[kyo]

yea dude she should know to erase those 2 idiots from her life, and if she doesn't know that, then you have a problem. Lay it out very clearly. Her life was put on hold on serious allegations because of her "friends"
I would even get her to tell those idiots to never come near your house or the kids and might even get a restraining order on the stupid roommate.