crazy talk in a gun shop

[proven]

i was in PA visiting family over the holidays. while there, i stopped in a local gun shop to do some window shopping.

there was an older gentleman just hanging around shooting the bull with the woman behind the counter when i spotted an ar15 on the rack behind the counter, and asked to see it. this was your typical bushmaster m4gery with no bells or whistles and one exception. the bbl was a 14.5 with a permanently attached izzy flash suppressor.

as she handed me the rifle, i said "oh, this is a 14.5" bbl". the old man corrected me, and said "no it's at least 16" or it wouldn't be legal". to which i started to reply, "well if this flash suppressor is perm.....". the woman behind the counter then produced a tape measure, and said "well, let's see". she then held the dumb end of the tape (the part with the hook for those that don't know) at a random point on the lower receiver and pulled to the end of the muzzle and stated "yep about 18 inches". the old man quickly agreed "yep, gotta be around 16' where the threads start. has to be or it aint legal".

i didn't have the energy to continue the conversation, and quietly left.

so how many times have you heard crazy talk like this from uninformed shop owners/workers.

 

[General Geoff]

Would have been funnier if she measured it properly, discovered the barrel itself was only 14.5 inches, got real scared, and quickly took the rifle into the back..

 

[Big Bill]

Idiots!

 

[proven]

Would have been funnier if she measured it properly, discovered the barrel itself was only 14.5 inches, got real scared, and quickly took the rifle into the back

yeah that would've been good.

 

[SHvar]

It is amazing how many dont realize these things, especially in a gunshop. I guess they never read the owners manual, or did any research before ordering the rifle for sale. It also demonstrates just how many have no clue about the laws, what they effect, and how to measure barrels.

 

[chris in va]

I would have pressed the issue to further educate them.

 

[proven]

chris- part of me wanted to. if you've ever tried to correct someone who thinks they know more about guns than you do, you know it can be like talking to a brick wall. i hear some pretty crazy stuff at gun shows too, but again i generally walk away.

 

[CZguy]

i hear some pretty crazy stuff at gun shows too, but again i generally walk away.

Always a good policy.

 

[stubbicatt]

I dunno. For those insistent upon ignorance, I would not wish to interfere.

I'd have left also.

 

[Wonder9]

if you've ever tried to correct someone who thinks they know more about guns than you do, you know it can be like talking to a brick wall.

No doubt you were the topic if conversation after you left. They may have even felt quite impressed with themsleves with that quick schooling they gave you.

 

[finfanatic]

Gun shows especially

This happens at Gun shows especially.

Sometimes, you can tell the sellers are just trying to sell their merchandise....".38 special? For self-defense! Too much recoil. What you need is this...."

Then, you have stuff like this....

I was looking at some rifles on a table with a pretty young girl behind the table.

Another prospective customer stopped and said, "What is that?" He was pointing at a Mosin-Nagant 1891/30.

The girl said "Let me get ______." and retrieved an older guy from down at the other end of the table.

"It's a Mauser," he told the customer/shopper.

My mouth hung open in amazement.

When the shopper asked what it fired, and the seller said, "7.62" I couldn't stand it anymore and said "It's a Mosin-Nagant 1891/30 and it shoots 7.62X54which is not the same as 7.62X51 Nato."

The old guy selling the rifle gave me a wicked look then said, "Er...yeah it's a Mosin na...na....It's a Mosin."

Caveat Emptor

 

[notorious]

Not exactly a gunstore, but I went to an Airsoft megastore at the behest of a buddy who's into that stuff... it was abhorrent.

The girl who was helping us did not know anything, literally. Whatever we asked to see was met with a "What?" and we ended up just pointing to the item, often several times.

Then we ask for a price and she had to ask the guy at the register for every single item. No point in asking for any specs or recommendations... I get more info out of staring at the wall.

As far as crazy real gun talk... I had an employee at a gun range go absolutely apesh1t about 3 months ago when he saw me with a Mosin M44 with the spike bayonet deployed.

He ran and told his boss that there was a mad man in the parking lot running around with an AK-47 and a bayonet, sweeping the gun around at people.

Now... what I did was check out my friend's M44 and I put the bayonet on to see what it looked like. The parking lot was typical of outdoor ranges, with the shooting line right there next to the cars. I had the bolt open and I was standing next to his car trunk, with the muzzle to the ground.

He ran back and threatened to call the local Police SWAT team on me. I told him, go ahead... say hi for me when you tell them that there's a guy with an unloaded bolt action rifle at a gun range so you want SWAT response.

P.S. There's no rule about handling guns in the parking lot at that range, btw, so don't go off on that. People at that range walk from their car to the firing line with their guns out of the case all day and people loiter around the lot or other areas with their firearms exposed all day, as long as the action is open, nobody says anything.

 

[possum]

if you only knew the kinda folks that work in the shop near my house oh my lord.

 

[CajunBass]

What I'm surprised by, is that people are still surprised by this kind of stuff.

 

[MachIVshooter]

chris- part of me wanted to. if you've ever tried to correct someone who thinks they know more about guns than you do, you know it can be like talking to a brick wall. i hear some pretty crazy stuff at gun shows too, but again i generally walk away.

If you have the time, it's so worth it to prove your point. The more the incorrect individual insists that they are right, the more humbled they are when proven wrong. But more importantly, they're less likely to spread the kind of misinformation that we are constantly dispelling on this board.

So many people simply accept what they're told because of who told it to them, never research the facts, and are never challenged when regurgitating the fallacy. Part of our duty in the preservation of RKBA and the shooting community is to help educate those who don't know.

Of course, the key to partaking in these debates is making da*# sure you're right, lest you become the duma$$.

 

[shevrock]

I was at a gun shop a few days ago [Wednesday?] and found a 30-06 arisaka. sadly i called it an ariska. Either way the shops got really nice people. they got my grandfather a really good deal on a hi-point. Back on topic though, the lady didn't know much. thankfully she was receptive, especially when i referred he to THR

 

[SaxonPig]

Well, what the man said was correct about the legal length being 16" right? What's crazy about that?

And if the suppressor is permanently attached, then it does indeed become part of the barrel as per the ATF, right? So the barrel length would in fact include the suppressor, no? What's crazy about that?

Now the way the clerk measured the barrel sounds incorrect (and I suspect it should be 16" and not the 18" she got) but that's an easy mistake to make. I've seen many people make a mistake in measuring a barrel. Hardly seems crazy, though.

Seems like much ado about nothing.

 

[woof]

Doesn't the permanent supressor alter the legality regardless of barrel length? Anyway, if you wanted an interesting reaction you could have pulled out your cell phone and said - "I'm calling my friend at ATF."

 

[taliv]

<--- has the ATF NFA branch on speed dial


no, not regardless of barrel length.

 

[madcratebuilder]

chris- part of me wanted to. if you've ever tried to correct someone who thinks they know more about guns than you do, you know it can be like talking to a brick wall. i hear some pretty crazy stuff at gun shows too, but again i generally walk away.

Sort of like some gun forums!

 

[jpwilly]

What I despise are the shop owners who assume you know nothing tell you what they think you need to hear to make a purchase and recommend to you X product because it's what all the commandos are using.

 

[Bartkowski]

if you've ever tried to correct someone who thinks they know more about guns than you do, you know it can be like talking to a brick wall. i hear some pretty crazy stuff at gun shows too, but again i generally walk away.

Ya, try doing this when you are a hell of a lot younger than the people too. They look at you like you are a baby just rambling on.

I especially like it when places don't know what they have for sale. I asked a guy what he wanted for the tin of 7.62x54r and he told me he didn't even know what it was. Gun shops, and dealers at gun shows don't even want your money; they just want to have stuff for sale. When you ask to buy it they don't know what to do.

 

[proven]

Well, what the man said was correct about the legal length being 16" right? What's crazy about that?

i spoke as to the bbl length, not total. which is what the old man replied to. actual bbl length and total are two different things. just like there are 11" bbls with 5.5" flash suppressors to make them 16"+ total, but the actual bbl length is still 11".

Now the way the clerk measured the barrel sounds incorrect (and I suspect it should be 16" and not the 18" she got) but that's an easy mistake to make. I've seen many people make a mistake in measuring a barrel. Hardly seems crazy, though.

sounds incorrect? do you know the proper way to measure total bbl length? how is it an EASY mistake to make?

 

[BHP FAN]

that depends on whether the flash hider is permanently affixed or not.If it is,legally the overall length is the barrel length.

 

[proven]

i was mistaken. the flash suppressor was an izzy, not a phantom. either way the result is the same.

here's the exact rifle.

and here's bushmaster's description.

M4 Profile 14.5" Barrel (designed to accept M203 Grenade Launcher) with permanently attached “Izzy” Flash Suppressor for a total barrel length of 16". Barrels are Hard Chrome lined in both Bore and Chamber for long life and ease of cleaning.

14.5" bbl, with a total (overall) bbl length of 16".