CRF vs. Push feed - which has the smoothest/fastest bolt throw?

[Benelli Shooter]

When you compare the Winchester 70 and similar CRF guns to the push feed guns, which tend to have the smoothest and fastest bolt throws?

Remington 700s I have seen tend to have an uneven amount of force that is required to operate the bolt over it's cycle. It tends to take some force on the rotation of the bolt out of battery, a smooth glide back, minor force picking up the next round, then extra force to lock the bolt in place after the round has been chambered.

While not horrible, these aspects make it less smooth and less desired for a fast follow up shot.

Are CRF guns different in this respect?

 

[ArmedBear]

I figure a bolt gun is a single-shot that stores a bit of extra ammo.

 

[JesseL]

It's going to hard to generalize all CRF action vs. all push-feeds in this regard, but I will say a CRF shouldn't have the extra resistance when you close the bolt since you don't have to force the extractor to snap over the cartridge rim at that point.

 

[ArmedBear]

I think that it has more to do with the design of the bolt, not the feed (though of course those are related).

Some bolts are essentially a metal bar that slides freely in a cylindrical hole, with lugs to lock it in place when you load the gun. It can flop around a fair amount, since the design of a bolt action like a Remington doesn't hold it in place.

Others are metal bars that rotate inside a rail system that does not rotate, but rides on rails in the action. It rides straight forward and back. Enfield, Mauser I think are like this.

I don't know about the 70, since I haven't ever had one and can't recall what the bolt was like in others' guns. And I have to plead ignorance regarding the Enfield's feed design, even though I have two of them. I don't have them in front of me, and I haven't looked at them in a long time.

 

[Horsemany]

Generally speaking a push feed will feel smoother than Mauser style actions. There are a number of reasons for this. One being the mauser style doesn't distribute the friction as evenly as a simpler action. Some consider the smoother simpler push feed to be a superior weapon out of ignorance IMO. Smoothness usually adds or detracts nothing to performance and is not really an indicator of quality. And some designs that are known to be smooth can have bad apples that are not smooth. An example would be the Remmy 700 which is commonly smooth. I have 2 that are so smooth you can tip the rifle slightly off level and the bolt will go flying back. I have another 700 that binds and sticks in several places. My point being it's not even safe to generalize about which guns are smoother. I have a wide variety of guns in my collection some are typical $500 guns and some are higher end semi-custom guns. Some of the cheapest guns I own have the smoothest bolts. The thought that smoothness has anything to do with quality is amateur.

 

[Art Eatman]

Looks to me that "smoothest" would depend on how much polishing was done to the rubbing surfaces. Old Krags and Mauser 98s are pretty doggoned slick.

Fastest? A 60-degree bolt that's highly polished...

 

[ArmedBear]

Weatherby's action might be one of the quickest, but they don't make a short action.

That matters, too. You can get a quicker followup with a .308 than a .300 Wby, just because the magnum cartridges are much longer. When you're in a hurry, they suddenly become about 2 feet long.

 

[Benelli Shooter]

The largest amount of resistance on the Remington 700 that I felt was closing and opening the bolt on a chambered round. It took a decent amount of force to open and close the bolt.

Does that make sense?

 

[JesseL]

The largest amount of resistance on the Remington 700 that I felt was closing and opening the bolt on a chambered round. It took a decent amount of force to open and close the bolt.

Does that make sense?

Did you fire the round, or eject it unfired?

Opening the bolt on a fired round with a cock-on-open gun generally does two things. Primary extraction of the brass which may be somewhat stuck to the chamber walls, and recocking the striker mechanism. Both of these add to the effort involved in lifting the bolt handle.

In a push feed action (assuming that there is sufficient headspace) most of the resistance in closing the bolt will be from the extractor being forced over the rim.

 

[jmr40]

I think it is more of an individual gun thing but if forced to choose I have found I can cycle the bolt a bit faster on push feeds. I don't own one but the Kimbers I have handled have the smoothest CRF action I have ever handled. Tikka's have the slickest actions over all of the guns I have tried. Rugers which are CRF seem the hardest for me to cycle. Learning to work a bolt gun quickly while still shouldered takes a little practice and can be done quite fast with the right gun and someone who has practiced.

 

[Horsemany]

jmr40

Your experience with the models you mentioned is the same as mine. The Kimber is easily the smoothers CRF I've ever felt. It's even smoother than the famed pre-64 model 70 IMO. I agree with you on the Tikka and Ruger as well. The Rugers are stiffer because the bolt actually rides on the magazine follower. Open the floorplate on a Ruger. They get buttery smooth. I've noticed CRF actions get MUCH smoother with use. Other than the Kimber most of mine have been sticky at first.