Crimping without a cannelure?

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Hi all,
Really dumb question here, how do you crimp something like this?

http://www.berrysmfg.com/products-c13-38357_Cal_.357.aspx

They have no cannelure, and I have been told that a taper crimp is for light recoiling loads only, but the description on the products say that you have to load them over 800 fps, because they won't work. So do you just crimp it even though it has no cannelure? Will the die just make a cannelure? Do you have to cut your own with some special tool?

Sorry for all of the questions, pretty new to handgun loading, and rifle loading seems a whole lot simpler right now.
 
Not a dumb question at all for someone trying them for the first time. I've loaded a few thousand of the Berry's .38 Special bullets. I just make sure I've got good neck tension and then use a very light roll crimp wherever it needs to be. Just don't get carried away with the crimp and cut through the plating, or you'll end up with terrible accuracy.

Hope this helps.

Fred
 
The die will not make it's own cannelure.
You have a "roll crimp" in your die. You have to use it but you will end up cutting the plating unless you take care not to. You would have to adjust it so that it is a very light crimp but a heavy load could make them walk out possibly.

When I used those bullets and had to crimp them, I would use a very light roll crimp. It worked out fine for me. Your next best option is to buy a "Taper Crimp Die " for your .38/.357 loads. Remember, Your resizing die is the one that causes neck tension in your brass to hold on to your bullet. Not your crimping die. That just removes the belling effect from the expanding die.
 
I taper crimp plated revolver bullets, you will need to figure out the col and proper charge to stay between 800-1200 fps.
When testing loads take your calipers with you and monitor the col of unfired rounds in the cylinder if they are growing in lenght you will need more crimp. If you roll crimp you run the risk of cutting the thin plating.
 
Your resizing die is the one that causes neck tension in your brass to hold on to your bullet. Not your crimping die. That just removes the belling effect from the expanding die.
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I disagree, I have stopped bullet jump in revolvers by increasing the crimp.
 
I bought a Taper Crimp die for making shotshells for the .38 Special and also use it to crimp .38 Special rounds for the rare times I use plated bullets.
 
For the Berry's plated bullets, you need to use a "taper crimp" or you will damage the bullet.

A taper crimp does not hold the bullet in place. The case sizing die reduces the case to less than the bullet diameter. When the bullet is seated, case "neck tension" is what holds the bullet in place.

The purpose of the taper crimp is to remove the belling that's usually needed to seat the bullet plus a very little more bit more.
 
The purpose of the taper crimp is to remove the belling that's usually needed to seat the bullet plus a very little more bit more.
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This is true for cases that headspace off the case mouth. The OP is inquiring about crimping bullets for revolver, so you can put a whole lot more taper crimp on the bullet. I have pulled bullets with a heavy taper crimp I can assure you that it's a lot harder than pulling a bullet that has a taper crimp that removes the flare plus a bit more.
 
RCBS .38/.357 carbide die sets can be had with either a taper or roll crimp in the seating die. My set is a taper set, so I have a separate roll crimping die.

For plated bullets, I use moderate powder charges and the taper die.
 
Okay, thanks for all of the replies, and no, I did not read Berry's FAQ, I didn't even know that site had a FAQ section. All I did was see them in the last issue of Cabela's shooting catalog.

Is there any other kind of crimp? What kind of crimp is the Lee "Factory Crimp Die"? Does it work? I have been happy with Lee products so far, and would like to keep using them, if possible.
 
The Factory Crimp Die crimp depends on what caliber it is.
If it is for a revolver round, Then it would be a roll-crimp
If it was for a semi-auto like the .45 ACP, Then it would be a taper-crimp.
Some say it's great. Some think it is an answer to a problem that isn't there ( or something like that, I forgot how it was said )
 
Josh 45, when referring to cartridges that head space on the mouth, yes the crimp is not intended to increase neck tension. But regarding cases that head space at the case head, the crimp does absolutely provide neck tension that is very much needed to prevent bullets from walking out of the mouth. To test this fact, load up some stout loads with HS6 or Longshot without a crimp, and see what happens.

I don't bell any of my case mouths, so using the crimp is completely unnecessary for cases head spaced at the mouth, but that's just my method. However, cases such as 38 spcl. and other rimmed cases should have a roll crimp, or a firm taper crimp to prevent bullets from litterally leaving the case mouth all together.
 
Wow, did not know that this was such a hotly contested issue...

Does anybody reload without sizing? If it is possible, does it make it hard to load?
 
Try using just a crimp without any sizing and tell us how it goes.
Click to expand...
I am aware of the importance of case neck tension, this is why I have undersized expanders for certain cartridge bullet combos.
cases that head space at the case head, the crimp does absolutely provide neck tension that is very much needed to prevent bullets from walking out of the mouth. To test this fact, load up some stout loads with HS6 or Longshot without a crimp, and see what happens.
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I agree.
For cartridges that head space off the case head or rim a plated bullet can be taper crimped more than cartridges that headspace off the case mouth, this can stop bullet jump in revolvers and increase start pressure for slower powders providing a more consistent burn. If you have trimmed your cases a inside chamfer is needed with a heavy taper crimp.
 
Wow, did not know that this was such a hotly contested issue...
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Me either :(
I have loaded 158gr plated bullets for 357 mag. to 1200 fps and a heavy taper crimp was needed to prevent bullet jump without damaging the plating.
My comments are based on my experience and yours may vary.
 
From what I am finding, it seems that a taper crimp is the way to go, with the plating getting cut and all of that fun stuff.... will the plating on the hollow bases keep the skirt from expanding? Or will it be blown out just at a higher pressure?
 
I have loaded 158gr plated bullets for 357 mag. to 1200 fps and a heavy taper crimp was needed to prevent bullet jump without damaging the plating.
Click to expand...

I use a heavy taper crimp on .38's and .357's for some applications.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=5942202&postcount=37

Taper crimping for revolvers is different than taper crimping for autos. Whole new ball game.

From what I am finding, it seems that a taper crimp is the way to go, with the plating getting cut and all of that fun stuff.... will the plating on the hollow bases keep the skirt from expanding? Or will it be blown out just at a higher pressure?
Click to expand...
The only HB bullets you need to worry about "blowing out", are the lead 148 Gr WC bullets intended for low velocity target shooting. The plated "hollow base" bullets have much thicker and stronger "skirts".
 
I have loaded 158gr plated bullets for 357 mag. to 1200 fps and a heavy taper crimp was needed to prevent bullet jump without damaging the plating.
Click to expand...

The crimp can increase bullet pull, but it is still smaller than the neck tension created by the interference fit of the bullet into the case.

Adding more bullet pull in specific cases has no affect on the need for case tension to hold bullets.
 
Those bullets are generally not for hard recoiling magnum loads. The only reason to roll crimp is to keep the bullet from moving under recoil and to help slow burning magnum powders develope pressure for efficient combustion.

Light taper or no crimp should be fine. If you're gonna run with the Big Dogs get bullets with a cannelure.
 
I had some problems at first while loading Berry's plated 158gr flat points (38Sp). No matter how much crimp I used, I could still push the bullet into the case with moderate thumb pressure. The solution I found was to not bell the case mouth after sizing. The Berry's plated bullet is tapered at the base and seats smoothly without a bell in the case. If I do it that way, no crimp is necessary, and the bullet is seated nice and tight. In my situation, it seems to me that with no cannelure, the crimping operation is possibly causing a bulge in the case just below the crimp resulting in a loose fit. YMMV
 
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