CZ-52: Small. Fast. Reliable.

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PaulDaisy

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For some $150, a Cz-52 can be readily had from a number of sources. I figured it might be worth while to post my experiences with the gun.
I had around 400 rounds through it. All of it - FMJ Sellier & Bellot, as no hollow points are manufactured at the moment. I have not had a single malfunction of any kind. In fact, I was determined to find out if the 52 is reliable, and I have not even cleaned it well after I received it: just scrubbed out 50-yr old hunks of grease and swept the barrel to clean out dead spiders and mice :) and off to the range it went.
The small 30 cal round appears fast. I didn't clock it but the blast is quite sharp, and beats the .45 in pitch and shockwave. I'd say it is comparable to 357 sig, not quite though. Ejection is violent: I try to pick up the cases to load with some Hornady XTP, and they fly some 30-40 ft away, so a catch net is a good idea. Sights are not the home defense style - they are slim and small, and fairly difficult to pick up. Accuracy was good straight out of the box: 7", 8-shot groups at 25 yards off hand, not great but it is my fault clearly (I am still - and always - in skill aquisition mode), not the gun's.
I refuse to clean the 52 - want to see how it will perform with a 1/8" deposits it is starting to build up. Also, my next project is hollow point ammo to try in it.
The 52 is hefty - heavier than most modern plastics. Size wise, it is smaller (thinner) than most. I know - people will frown at a 30 caliber in a self-defense situation, and I do have a .45 too, but I have to say - I like the Cz-52 a lot and given the low cost, think you owe it to yourself to get one and give it a try.
Cheers,
P.
 
The 7.62x25 easily outstrips the .357SIG in the velocity race. I think that S&B ammo is rated at a rather optimistic 1625fps or so. It's probably actually doing a bit over 1500fps which is way up there for an autopistol cartridge. Of course, it's only pushing a 80-85grain pill... It has its uses though--small surface area + high velocity = amazing penetration. And, based on comments about the .30 Mauser (a similar but not quite so speedy cartridge) it makes a decent stopping round--when bone is hit. Evidently the high velocity creates a lot of bone fragments which act like shrapnel.

They're pretty neat pistols. You're the second person in two days to call one a "little gun" on the forums which I find slightly amusing. Little might be a stretch, but they certainly are THIN. If you can find a good holster and belt, they conceal surprisingly well due to this feature.
 
Oh, there are a LOT more HP choices than that:

https://secure18.websitecomplete.com/reed1911/shop/showDept.asp?dept=1185

I recently made a CZ-52 my car gun, for the reasons already mentioned, as well as these:

1. Haven't tested myself, but I think it would be a b**** against auto-glass (even with aftermarket treatments), unlike many calibers. I know it practically makes you a communist to say so, but my confidence in .45, as one example, is not great in such conditions. After full-power 10mm and 357SIG, this may be the semi-auto cartridge of choice for that type of barrier penetration.

2. At a $119 a pop for the top condition guns (you can get them in lesser conditions for as little as $89), I'm not going to pass bloody stools if the gun gets stolen out of the car (or with the car, for that matter). And should that happen, the bad guys are probably going to be clueless what to do with the damned thing.
 
My concerrn about this gun and these rounds is, for want of a better term, "collateral" damage.

They seem to penetrate pretty well. Too well, in fact, for a gun you might want to use in up-close and personal situations (the most likely for a CCW weapon.) Seems like it could go through the bad guy, through the wall and, maybe, through a neighbor's kid.

Maybe I've misinterpreted the data -- if so, someone please explain the realities of this gun/round. If I ever had one, it would be a range-only gun, until someone convinces me otherwise. (I'm ready to be convinced.)
 
$89 - $99 is the going rate if you have your C&R FFL. It's worth the price of the C&R FFL (3 years for $30.00) on that 1 purchase alone IMO.

I got one a year or so ago. It is a fun pistol. It's almost as fun shooting it as watching other stare wide-eyed when you cap a few rounds off :what: . It has a pretty good bark to it. Looks worse than it feels though, it's actually a comfortable gun to shoot, for me anyways.

cz52.jpg
 
I also have my CZ as a car-gun. Not only do I think it would punch through auto glass with no problem, I would expect it to punch through most modern automotive sheet metal and still have oomph on the other side.
Of course, a FMJ Tokarev fired from a CZ52 can be pretty much counted on to overpenetrate a human target. The magazine that resides in my CZ is loaded with those Brazilian JHP's from Makarov.com, with the top round and the chamber round being MagSafes. (Yes, they are available in 7.62 x 25. No, they are not easy to find, but if you go to the website you'll find them.)

Of course most people agree that MafSafes, as a rule, do not penetrate well. In this situation, with the inherent overpenetration of the Tokarev round, I think they are appropriate for the initial shots. And it doesn't hurt that the 7.62x25 MagSafes have been clocked at 2200 fps. That's a hell of a lot of energy to transfer into a target. I have fired a couple of them at the range. They definately take the typical CZ52 recoil and report up a couple of notches, and the 2-foot muzzle flame is a sight to behold. :what:
I plan on trying out some of those custom loads from Reed's Ammo pretty soon.
Speaking of CZ-52's, would anyone be interested in one plated in Satin Chrome? Classic Arms , where I bought both my CZ and my Mak, was doing runs of plated 52's last year, asking $189 for them at gun shows around here. (Their normal cost for a CZ52 is $119.) They were VERY well done, nice even plating inside and out. They haven't done any in awhile, but I think if I drum up some interested parties they might be persuaded to fire up the plating tanks. PM me if you're interested.
 
want one also

still waiting on C&R , but what rounds do I need to try to get for it for plinking and such? and where do I order them?
thanks
 
CZ-52s online (some of them):

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/CZ52_7_62x25_Pistol.html

http://catalog.jgsales.com/itemlist.php?classid=2613

http://www.militarygunsupply.com/shop/item.asp?itemid=CRCZ52

(they give the "dealer" price for online/phone orders, not their in-store retail price)

http://snipurl.com/d85f

http://64.82.96.51/pistols.htm

http://www.classicarms.us/htm/firearms.htm (way down the page)


Range ammo--S&B. I got 50 round boxes for 9.69 at the gun show, but you can buy it in bulk for about $8.50, I think (plus shipping).

Also, some dealers, like Classic Arms (the last link above) and Sportsman Guide have surplus stuff available--I haven't tried it myself.
 
Also, don't let those wacky bakelite "pressed thread" grips turn you off--there is a guy over at this forum:

http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/mb/surplusrifle

who supplies cheap polymer/plastic grips.

Here is an example of his work (in OD green):

http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/surplusrifle/vpost?id=310451

For members of that forum he charges $18, or $19 by Paypal (price includes shipping). Here's the text of the email he sent me when I inquired (I bought the black grips):

"The regular price is $24-$27 per pair plus shipping.
For board members, your price for a pair of grips is $18.00, which includes
shipping.
You can either pay by money order, or Paypal. If using Paypal, I do ask $1
more to help cover the fees they hit me with. Payment info is below.
As to colors, I've done many colors. The most popular are Black, Ivory, Dark
Gray and 'Army Green'. I've attached a couple of pics to help.

Turn around is usually under a week. Just depends on my work schedule,
materials, etc.

Thanks for the interest!

Shawn Riani
PO Box 346
Brooklyn, MI 49230

Or Paypal ID: [email protected]

Shawn
(Zee)"

They grips aren't fancy (there are wood Hogues out there if you want that), but they are fine, and mine fit well.
 
I am really glad to see that the 52 enjoys the popularity that I believe it deserves! I got mine (two) from Militarygunsupply, in unissued condition on CCR and they are keepers for sure.
I was shooting the same one yesterday, and finally think it could use a cleaning. After 500 rnds, the trigger started being rough, and I started pulling the shots to the left and low. Of course my more experienced friend landed 8 out of 8 into 4 inches right after I missed all of mine and blamed it on the trigger, so there - even with the sticky trigger the gun does shoot very well. I was pretty humiliated and had to throw a spent case at him, as you will all agree was well deserved on his part :)
I stand corrected on the hollow points! I didn't look very hard I guess. As far as overpenetration, I think that is very true and I would not try that at home. I am not sure that a hollow point would not overpenetrate either since it will not expand to that big of a diameter anyway. Oh well. If it goes through both bad guys lined up in the doorway, it will save money for me on a follow-up shot.
I plan to reload some XTPs and experiment with the loads. The only manual with selection of loads that I found is a Hornady, but that should do.
The original grips are a little thin for me, and for a car gun I'd probably put on a Pachmyar wraparound grip. For carry, I would keep it slim.
Yeah, for a "little" gun - I hear you :) not so little but feels little because its thin. And the ejected brass makes everyone in the next 5 lanes duck, I kind of like that as long as they are amused by that :)
Cheers,
P.
 
Anybody besides makarov.com sell the FNM Tok ammo? I won't do business with Bloss.
 
PaulDaisy:
Sir, I say, don't go there!

Got my C&R and bought one, along with new grips and an after market firing pin. An AIM reconditioned, which looks cute in it's black cover.
Then I got the second, an unreconditioned unit in the normal gray.
Which looks even better than the first...

Noticed the energy figures on the round, which are, as you'd expect, great. Then noticed the anti-armor capibility, which is the cream on the top.

Compared it to my normal carry, USPc .40. Longer barrel, of course, but the grip is about the same size. Plus, it's a lot thinner. Too, it seems that the weights are about equal...


If you continue down this road, you'll start thinking of CCW holsters, new sights, and, of course, the firing pin replacement.
Don't go there!
There are more modern arms available.


Trust me on this one!

As for me, I'm thinking a Docter red dot optical, since getting older does bad things to the eyes. The swaging set ordered is specified for 70 to 120 grain, flat based, 7.62 round nosed bullets. And the chronograph is the next toy to be ordered, most probably this month.

As I said, you do not want to wander off into this wilderness.

And I think a magsafe type of bullet is THE answer to over penetration in self defense targets.




I'm telling you, stop where you are, rearrange your thoughts, and then proceed to a more "modern" arm.
 
Further costing notes.

I paid 119, plus shipping for the first one, and 89 for the second, both on my C&R. Of the two, I'd take the second first, but don't forget shipping,

The second appears to be the better bet, but I've only a couple of hundred rounds through the pair, it being hard to find the empties on (in?) your back yard range in the middle of winter in NH. Lots more firing is necessary before this becomes my weapon of choice, and I do intend to play on "cranking it up".

I'd say get one: it's cheap, for now, powerful, and not really all that big. A .30 carbine in a 5" barrel is, to my mind, a good thing to have.
 
benewton:

Words of wisdom and experience, I hear from you, sir :)
I know... I got a Ruger P345 for carry. It is lighter, quieter and makes a bigger hole, and more varieties of ammo are around, and bullets, and such... But how do you resist the temptation? I like the 52 still. I most likely will not carry it but with the 100% reliability, I would not feel handycapped if I did. As far as reoading goes, the S&B is hard to beat costwise. But having put so much effort into finding that wildly ejected brass I feel almost obligated to load some. Besides, I have been wanting that Dillon 550 anyway.
Holster?! It came with a holster - although most people would consider me mentally challenged if I decided to carry it in it :)
Anyway, I know what you're saying. I use my C&R mostly for buying interesting rifles, not for finding an ultimate carry gun. But I have no regrets about using it to get the 52 at all.
BTW, the decock works properly on mine. I read that the problem developes with use. I have not had it so far and never dry-fire it, so the original pin still holds. But I am aware of the firing pin issue as well.

Cheers,
P.
 
PD:
The decock seems to work well on mine, as well, but I'm not one to chance it. In this particular operation, I see it as a 1911 which can be loaded while always on safe, which is my major problem with that old, but very good, handgun.

Last trip home, a GOOD thing for a road warrior, I compared the CZ to my normal carry USPc. Longer in barrel, same butt, thinner, and about the same loaded weight. All by hand, of course, not by scale and callipers!

The reason for the 7.62x25 is, of course, penetration, and. so far as I know, level III armor isn't enough for a hot reloaded round.
Overpenetration is a problem, of course, but I think bullet selection can overcome that. Plus, I get my bullet swage setup, in 7.62, in a couple of months, so I can try shot loads, the normal ball round, in a lighter weight, and so forth.

Anyway, time and facilities permitting, I'll be working with a pair of the beasts, a micrometer, a reloading set, scale, and so forth, to see just what I can get this weapon to do. Should be fun, I think.


A note on the firing pin replacement.
If nothing else, the trigger pull goes to 1/2 or less of the original.
Don't know if that's worth the price to you, but, there it is.
 
benewton: Heh, so you're in violation of your own wisdom, I see! Well, I am all for it :) Did you get the 7.62 swage kit for this particular purpose or just in general? I am not that advanced yet, so I will consider myself making progress when I reload factory bullets.
If I could improve the trigger, I'd like that. But I'm not an expert pistolsmith by any means, only willing to work on it patiently and carefully. I am thinking about taking it all apart and polishing up the parts to start with. I was accused of having too much time one evening two weeks ago when I sat down and, instead of working on the databases for my customers, spent 5 hours polishing up the barrel on my P345 to make it look nice where it shows through the ejection port. I told them, I needed a break, so I did. BTW, that made a big difference in the appearance of the Ruger (buth this is OT for this thread).
Cheers,
P.
 
I also use mine for a car gun. As mentioned, I am counting on it in case I need to shoot through glass, metal etc. I stashed mine in the car for about 9 months and then took it out and shot it without cleaning it. No problems.
I would probably not carry it for CCW because of the over penetration problems as mentioned at close range with nothing in between.
Easy takedown and cleaning on them too. When I did carry one I used a Yaqui slide with no problem.
Nothing not to like about them. Everyone should have one. Just dont reload the cases. :uhoh:
 
I do know guys who reload Tok ammo, but judging from the number of cracked necks and ejector dents on the brass I pick up off the ground, I would hope they only use fresh brass.
 
My one and only AD came from using reloaded ammo in the Tok round. The round is very high pressure and warps the case. Putting it through the sizing die apparantly does not really fix that (maybe it does). With the cartridge warped the gun will not go into battery. If one uses the decocker with the gun even slightly out of battery, BANG. Which is how my wife's pillow got a hole in it (she wasnt home). : :eek:
 
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