CZ 75 Police Use?

[razorback2003]

Is there a reason why CZ 75's are not used by police here in the States? Customer service/Quality when compared to Sig, Smith, HK, Glock?

I even read an article in a CZ magazine that military contractor types were using these overseas. Is the quality really that good, magazine lie, or do most use the Beretta 92's, Sigs, and Glocks again because these are a better quality than CZ? I have read about the weak springs and poor quality extractors on CZ 75's. Could this in addition to tests be why no major agency in the States use the CZ 75?

 

[beatledog7]

Lingering stigma of the Warsaw Pact?

 

[mgmorden]

The CZ-75 is plenty good enough of a weapon - and its used a lot in foreign countries.

As to why - its anyone's guess. They were a communist country until the early 1990's (which is a bit after the initial wave of PD's switched to autoloaders), so that would rule them out as a potential supplier until then.

It may also be a question of just how much they pursue it. If CZ isn't bidding on the contracts (or isn't being aggressive with their pricing when they do bid) then they won't get picked. I'm convinced that Ruger doesn't make much of an effort here either - they seem to be doing fine in the civilian sector and their pistols enjoy a good reputation, but almost no law enforcement issues them.

Also, though you mention Beretta 92's and SIGS, the vast majority of the contracts have gone to Glock. S&W is gaining some traction there with the M&P, but the cold hard truth is that there just aren't that many DA/SA's issued.

 

[Ghost Tracker]

CZ 75 is a fine platform in all it's many variations. I don't think CZ aggressively went after major civilian & military contracts when the design was relatively new (1970's?). I even remember when they were very hard to get & expensive when you could FIND one. Since then, they've increased their manufacturing capability & distribution network but, at the same time, newer (more popular, cheaper) designs have come to the market from bigger, more mainstream pistol manufacturers. But then Walther hasn't gotten a big contract in a while either.

 

[sirgilligan]

I can only offer speculation. If my speculation sounds reasonable and maybe even logical it might be part of the reason CZ pistols haven't been adopted in mass.

As already stated:

Lingering stigma of the Warsaw Pact

Very reasonable.

They were a communist country until the early 1990's (which is a bit after the initial wave of PD's switched to autoloaders)

Sounds plausible to me.

But then Walther hasn't gotten a big contract in a while either.

I like this comment.

I haven't had any need to use CZ's customer service. My CZ 85B is running like a champ. I do see posts that people have used their CS and more often it is praise of the service.

I have used Smith & Wesson customer service. It was on a recall. Everything went smooth and easy.

I have used Sig Sauer customer service. It started out bumpy and I got mad, but it smoothed out in a few days and I was treated to my satisfaction.

I do not own an H&K or Glock.

To follow the thought on Walther, Walther is well respected but not widely adopted as a police sidearm (because I haven't seen any police carrying them and I do look and see what they carry when I am out traveling). The same thing can be said for H&K, FNH, Browning, Colt, Springfield Armory, Ruger, and many other respected manufacturers.

Is there any reason that the CZ 75 platform would not make a good service pistol? Not that I know of. It is designed to be a service pistol. It has been used by law enforcement and military all over the world. It is rugged. It is easy to take down and clean. It is robust. It is accurate.

 

[sigarms228]

PDs have very limited budgets these days and will continue to do so for probably many years. They need the least costly reliable and accutate pistol that will do the job and generally place a high importance on having a contant trigger action, and adaptability to the user meaning that changeable backstraps and being amidexterous design are important. Glock and S&W are the big players for that and will continues to be. No way around the fact that poly pistols are cheaper to produce, probably by far, than metal frame pistols. They are also much easier to maintain.

More elite agencies such as the Secret Service and Navy SEAL can budget for what will be the best for their needs and typically use SIG and/or HK.

I personally could care less what the PDs user for their choice in pistols. They drive Fords and Chevys too.

Make your buying decision on what works best for you.

 

[Mr.Blue]

US PDs have moved away from all steel pistols. CZ is new to polymer pistols too. Perhaps the P-07 may catch on.

 

[KenW.]

They haven't been approached by a major US corporation to bring them into the fold, ala Springfield and the Croation HS2000 (XD).

 

[mgmorden]

They haven't been approached by a major US corporation to bring them into the fold, ala Springfield and the Croation HS2000 (XD).

CZ runs its own US-based corporation for their imports - CZ-USA. Given that Glock does the same and is dominating the law enforcemnt market, I don't think it's an issue .

 

[KenW.]

Sure it is. XDs aren't popular becuase they started here as HS-USA. And Glocks were the first successful poymer wonder-nine, a class by themselves at the time. No comparison.

 

[mgmorden]

And as I said in an earlier post, Rugers see nearly zero law enforcement deployment despite being a huge US-based corporation with excellent consumer sales.

I think you're establishing a pattern where none exists.

 

[KenW.]

Let the numbers speak for themseves. I understand CZs are great guns, but their US police use isn't widespread. Maybe Ruger could team with them and actually produce a desirable auto. Love their revolvers, but just can't get attracted to their autos.

 

[mgmorden]

I'm not contesting that their US police use isn't widespread, merely that the lack of major domestic "sponsor" to rebrand them is the cause of it. There's no reason to assume that as the most sucessful player in the market - Glock - also doesn't have that going for them, and your specific example - Springfield XD's, haven't really seen all that great of adoption by law enforcement either.

There's no pattern here to establish this as even remotely the cause of their troubles with LE adoption.

 

[KenW.]

We must agree ti disagree. My agency has several of us who carry the XD/XDm. There are no CZs.

This discussion is not only for we two people, and it is known where I stand. Fini.

 

[razorback2003]

It seems like a lot of people don't know what CZ's are and have never heard of them. I have a buddy that had never heard of CZ when I showed him my CZ 75 9mm. He liked the fairly slim grip width but didn't think it was in the same class as Smith and Wesson.

I did have to send my CZ 75 to Kansas City to get work done, polishing/cutting of the chamber, new Wolff extractor spring. Now the gun does not have FTF/FTE problems (well one in 500 rounds). I run cast 125 grain reloads through it now. I didn't know if having to get work done by CZ was common with these handguns to get them to run reliably.

My handgun does have the factory SP 01 18 round mags. Are the 16 rd mags from CZ or MecGar more reliable?

I like the weight of the gun when shooting at the range and also feel safer shooting reloads through an all steel gun instead of alloy or plastic frames.

 

[viking499]

Maybe Ruger could team with them and actually produce a desirable auto.

I have both. To me, the CZ is already desirable. The Ruger is not. Why would you want to bring CZ down to Rugers level?

 

[tipoc]

The CZ 75 was not widely available in the U.S. till the late 1990s and the early years of this century. They soon established a fairly wide market for their handguns and excellent rifles. So much so that about 6 years ago they set up their service and distribution center in Kansas City. Prior to that they had no established base in the U.S. they still have no manufacture done in the U.S. though they are moving in this direction.

So if you think of the time line the market for law enforcement was dominated by Glock, Berretta and S&W by the time CZ showed up.

CZ does not have the tech apparatus in the U.S. to maintain a large law enforcement contract. They hope to but are not there yet.

There was little to no interest by U.S. law enforcement in a DA/SA handgun that could also be carried C&L. There still isn't and law enforcement has been moving away from da/sa handguns.

tipoc

 

[PabloJ]

The CZ-75 is plenty good enough of a weapon - and its used a lot in foreign countries.

As to why - its anyone's guess. They were a communist country until the early 1990's (which is a bit after the initial wave of PD's switched to autoloaders), so that would rule them out as a potential supplier until then.

It may also be a question of just how much they pursue it. If CZ isn't bidding on the contracts (or isn't being aggressive with their pricing when they do bid) then they won't get picked. I'm convinced that Ruger doesn't make much of an effort here either - they seem to be doing fine in the civilian sector and their pistols enjoy a good reputation, but almost no law enforcement issues them.

Also, though you mention Beretta 92's and SIGS, the vast majority of the contracts have gone to Glock. S&W is gaining some traction there with the M&P, but the cold hard truth is that there just aren't that many DA/SA's issued.

The only two users I can think of is Czech Republic and Turkey (they use domestically made clone) but that is about it. The pistol is heavy and does not fit small or medium hands well even in partial cock position. Despite it's slight accuracy advantage I would rate it below Gen 3 S&W.

 

[Pilot]

The lightweight alloy P-01, and PCR both lend itself to carry, and police use. The decocked (half cock) trigger position is easy to reach, so no worries on having to have larger hands.

The new P-07 is CZ's Glock 19, and has had some teething problems which have been addressed. The word is they are coming out with a full size version. Both the P-07, and its full size brother would also lend themselves to the police market, but as CZ has gotten a very late start here in the U.S. don't expect them to be seem replacing Glocks and M&P's anytime soon.

 

[PO2Hammer]

I think the police in Kazakhstan use them;]

 

[armoredman]

CZ-UB, the parent company, is filling some major military contracts at this time, and that's where the money is for them right now - look up the CZ 805 and CZ EVO. The Phillipene National Police force did just recently decide to dump the Glock for the P-07, 118,000 man force according to the data I could wrinkle up online when I heard about it. Don't know anything about how well that is going, same as the Czech national Police changing from the PCR to the P-07, a transitional time. But most would blow that off as national pride, no big deal.
CZ-USA has almost primarily been aimed at the US civilian market, though it wouldn't mind a police contract, and has a few, IIRC, mostly smaller depts at this time. On the side, I do know a police chief in Minnesota who carries a CZ75, but he's the boss. The CZ pistols that are in the running for modern day police work would the P-07, SP-01 Phantom, maybe the RAMI-P for UC work, and a few models that haven't quite made it over here yet, the P-09 and the P-02. CZ-UB is moving more and more into larger duty and military sized pistols, and the Phantom has already scored one military contract, edging out the very dated CZ 82 and Glock. We'll see what happens later.
I wouldn't mind seeing my Dept switching to the CZ SP-01 Phantom, as I personally believe it is a better firearm - had 300% more Glocks fail with factory ammo than CZs - I say that because my CZs HAVE choked on some of my bad reloads in the past, fair is fair. But, as is all else, it's my personal opinion, having 9 years of experience with the Glock 19 and 17 as an issued sidearm, and qualifying Expert or Distinguished Expert with it every year.
Glock went after the police market with a vengeance, and got it away from Smith and Colt with super low prices on plastic guns the other manufacturers couldn't compete with. That's OK, that's marketing, and Glock won that one easily. The American manufacturers got caught flat footed and took a long time to catch up. S'alright, they're getting back in the game.
Perhaps someday CZ will start scoring major police contracts, after they get done with the military ones. We'll see, but in the meantime, I will continue to enjoy mine.

 

[Wil Terry]

I think it is probably because CZ chose to NOT use the marketing methods of BERETTA and GLOCK, Bribery.

 

[KenW.]

I was thinking CZ could help Ruger's autos more than the other way around, and also benefit themselves by being associated with an American name.

 

[HOOfan_1]

What help does Ruger need? They have been the top selling gun manufacutrer for years and the top selling handgun manufacturer for years.

 

[Bobson]

What help does Ruger need?

They should hire some designers on, and change up the aesthetics of their automatic pistols. The Ruger P-series are pretty ugly, IMO.

Frankly, I trust the Ruger name more than the CZ. If Ruger could fix CZ's short slide, or if CZ could fix Ruger's aesthetics problem, I could buy one (or both). Or maybe not.