CZ SP-01 Range Report and Questions

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eerw,

Yeah I've already ordered some Wolff extractor springs and hopefully will get them in sometime this week. Hopefully that fixes the problem. If that doesn't work then I'll try the new recoil spring. The brass seemed to be ejecting fine in all three types of ammo (when it did actually eject).

Hopefully that's as much as I'll need to do. I really really love the gun...if I can make it totally reliable then it will definitely become one of my favorites. If not...I guess I'll have to start looking for a new 9mm!
 
please keep us posted

I really really was wanting an SP-01. Does it have the same frame geometry as a p-01? I was on the fence with those two not knowing which way to go but now I might just make the switch to beretta.
 
The SP-01 has a frame that is SIMILAR to the P-01 but not the same, The "geometry" is the same -- it has the same feel, etc. The P-01 is a "compact" and its frame is shorter (lengthwise) and less high (grip height) than the full-size guns (which include the SP-01). Both the P-01 and SP-01 have an accessory rail. The SP-01 frame is STEEL, while the P-01 is alloy. The P-01 is decocker only, and the SP-01 is available with decocker or safety. The P-01 uses flush-fit "compact mags" (but wll accept full size mags that extend beyond the end of the grip); the SP-01 uses full-size mags.

Go to the CZ-USA website and look at the SP-01 Shadow, which is modified for IPSC competition.

I'm pretty sure the SP-01 (the standard model) has the same trigger as the P-01, which is the newer trigger with more curve, (and shorter reach); some folks don't like that -- and the SP-01 Shadow seems to have the older, less curved DA/SA trigger. (I haven't handled a "Shadow," yet.)

http://www.cz-usa.com/products_handguns.php?m=1
 
I hope it works for you...

I have two SP01s and both have been real winners for me...

BevrFevr..
the frame has the same beavertail as the 75bSA and uses the same trigger as the PO1..it is steel vs the alloy of the PO1 also..it is a good feeling gun..
for me it works out better than a Beretta because I have short fingers..and this CZ I can reach comfortably..

the was some mention of a alloy framed SP01 from the IWA show...but only internet rumor so far..

good luck to you..sorry to hear your CZ is not working out..
 
I have short fingers also. One of the big draws for me to cz. Is the sp-01 easier to reach the controls than a 75b?

Yeah I hope I can get it worked out too.
 
BevrFevr..

yes...I definitely can reach the trigger better on the the SP01 and PO1 guns...
 
Regarding the newer (?) CZ trigger having a steeper curve, I have found it much less comfortable than the "standard" one (my index finger felt a little squeezed -not intolerably so, but "cramped" nonetheless). But then, I have fairly large hands and I imagine that folks having smaller or average sized hands might very well prefer the curvier trigger.
 
BevrFevr: I not only sympathize with you but entirely agree with much of what you have to say concerning poor workmanship and shoddy customer service, not only on the part of CZ but other manufacturers as well. I'm 62 years old and have been "into" guns (all kinds, rifles, pistols, shotguns, blackpowder, airguns; you name it) since before I was a teenager. I served four years as an Air Policeman and shot on the AP pistol team. I've shot trap and Bullseye pistol competitively and competed in many, many pistol "combat" courses before retiring from a 26 year le career. It has been my experience that over the course of the last couple of decades or so, the quality of gunmaking has deteriorated in too many instances and so has factory "assistance" when it comes to rectifying said deficiencies. What's more, I've come to the conclusion that one of the main reasons this sorry state of affairs persists is because the "brand-washed" customer has become an enabler.

You know the type. Rather than fault (name of brand here), this mind-set will come up with a veritable litany of excuses for their precious product's problems, including (but not limited to) the following usual suspects: magazine/ejector and/or recoil springs are too weak/strong; wrong kind of ammo (what? you're using WWB?); lack of dry-firing (oh, your trigger spring broke?- too much dry-firing!); need to polish that feed ramp and, when all else fails, you must not be holding your wrist stiff enough. And when the messenger dares voice a problem with a brand new, out-of-the-box firearm, you know whom the brand-washed seeks to kill.

Among the way too many guns that I own, I have a CZ 85 that, so far, I've been pleased with. But a good friend of mine whom I influenced to buy a new 75 has experienced nothing but grief with it (feeding and extraction issues) along with pathetic factory assistance. Unfortunately, so long as the buyer continues to defend shoddy workmanship and puts up with customer disservice, we will all just have to fluff and buff and tweak our way to getting a gun to work like it should have from the get-go.
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I couldn't agree more, too many manufacturer "apologists" on the forums. All the manufacturers could improve, some more than others. But it reminds me of the car business. And look at what is happening with the domestic manufacturers. Not that CZ is Toyota or Honda, by any means!
 
Before one calls somebody a manufacturer apologist, you might want to think about who actually makes the parts in question.

Does CZ actually make the springs in the gun, or do they contract outside to help keep costs down?

The same thing goes for many other companies and industries.

For example, Volkswagen was having huge problems with coilpacks on some of its newer vehicles. They issued massive recalls and still had issues. Finally, it came down to firing a shoddy supplier and getting someone who could make the parts properly.

Another example is that most folks think of an airplane as a single thing instead of the sum of its parts. If an engine explodes on a 747, is that Boeing's fault?
Absolutely not.
Boeing has never been an engine manufacturer.

Just because CZ put out a gun with a bad extractor spring doesn't really mean CZ makes crappy guns. They may need to replace a supplier or bust heads at said supplier.
Weak customer service is never fun to deal with, but thats also one of the things that suffers when consumers forever demand low prices.
 
I take exception to anyone calling Walt Sherrill an apologist.

If you re-read this thread, he offers objective observations on CZ's in general and BevrFevr's pistol in particular. I see no grounds for accusing him of being an apologist. True, he is a big CZ fan, but he does not let that cloud his judgment. He is not blinded by brand loyalty, he is no spouter of "Glock Perfection."

From his many posts here and on CZ Forums, he has shown himself to be a very knowledgeable firearms enthusiast and a gentleman, freely offering his time and insight to who knows how many members over the years on both forums.

I'm sorry you had problems with your CZ, BevrFevr, and I'm sorry you got called a whiner. Neither give you the right to goad Walt or accuse him of being an apologist. Please conduct yourself in a manner more befitting someone of your intelligence.

Good luck wth your pistol. I hope your experience with their customer service this time around is more to your satisfaction.
 
I'm a regular participant here and on the CZ Forum, where I'm a long-time member. Bevr is frustrated from his experience with his CZ, and by the many accolades he hear here and elsewhere about CZs. Those cheers and raves bother me, too. I don't think ANY gun is that good. Even a Glock. <grin> I've noticed the following:

1) The fewer guns you own, the more likely you are to think the gun you own is one of the best that ever was.

2) Many folks defend their weapons as though they are defending their manhood, and seem to get their handguns and their other "gun" confused.

3) Many folks are absolutely nuts about CZs and think they are nearly perfect. See 1) and 2) above. I think that explains a LOT of the CZ mania -- many CZ shooters are first-time pistol owners or new to the sport, and have had little exposure to other guns.

4) Others just like CZs because they've had other guns and like CZs better. I'm among this group.

One of Bevr's first messages was:

I have endorsed cz for years but I have been in denial. I had ftf's when the gun was new. Replaced the recoil spring now it feeds better but extracts like crap.

What kind or quality gun requires spring replacement form the get go. For the time I have been waiting on my stuff to arrive from cz I could have walked there and back many times. I am rapidly loosing faith.

Oh sure they are accurate, but my self defense pistol is no longer a cz. Maybe I will feel better when my parts arrive.
Click to expand...
Bevr says he's had his gun for 10 years or so and it still isn't right. His judgement of the "brand" is apparently based on this one gun that he's toyed with for a decade. He's unhappy, and with cause. For a while, he thought it was a break-in issue. Reasonable assumption. For a while (300 rounds, maybe?) But he's put thousands through it, he tells us.

I've had maybe 20 CZs. I've still got several. One of them, my 85 Combat, I've put probably 30K rounds through. The only thing I've replaced is recoil springs (and a new extractor spring, even though it wasn't malfunctioning.) Angus Hobdell, a member of the CZ shooting team (and a very competent gunsmith) says he's got a CZ that, with 40K rounds through it, is still running the original factory recoil spring. Not all CZ springs are bad.

The only CZ that has caused me problems is a 75B SA, which was customized before I bought it -- and it needed a new extractor spring. Not perfect. But if you shoot it, you know its a very, very well-tuned and accurate gun.

I've been shooting one CZ or another since 1997 -- when I first discovered them. Except for a Glock 34, and a couple of really nice CZ clones and, once in a while, as SIG GSR, CZs/CZ clones are about all I shoot. (I've got a very nice Browning HP that sits in the gun safe. I'd sell it, too, but its just so darned pretty.) I have several Sphinxes. They are "CZs" made in Switzerland. They put CZs to shame, in terms of fit and finish. But they cost 3-4 times as much as a standard CZ. I'll probably pick up a Glock 35 one of these days, and carry a Kahr P9 or a Kel-Tec P3AT when doing CCW.

I sold a pristine SIG P-210-6. While it is an exceptionally nice gun and exceedingly accurate, it wasn't really ideal for the type of shooting I do -- mostly IDPA. And, unlike some here, I don't view guns as treasures never to be sold; they're tools, and when the tool doesn't fit me or the job I must use it for, I sell it and try to find one that does.

Bevr is upset, and should be -- his gun isn't functioning as it should. But to condemn the brand because HIS GUN isn't functioning as it should would be like condemning all SIG P220s because of one bad experience (see the message about the P220 Jamamatic, here on the Forum.)

Bevr took quite a while to address his problem. Just recently (weeks ago, not years ago) he sought out an extractor spring. It apparently still hasn't arrived -- which would have angered me, too. Is he justified in his complaints? Certainly.

But as I said earlier, part of the problem was to put off dealing with the matter for 10 YEARS. His "denial" -- his choice of words, not mine -- was part of the problem. He said he has done all othe common stuff, but mentioned only a recoil spring. As I noted previously, we can only respond to what he writes, not what he doesn't write. Common stuff would typically be extractors, extractor springs, and maybe checking the chamber for roughness. Recoil springs would not be a common fix, nor would be looking for burrs on the slide rails -- but any of these things COULD contribute to a solution.

I've had guns that were frustrating. I've taken them to gunsmiths, or sent them back to the factory. I sure didn't say they were all bad.

CZ has apparently had a bad run of springs. But, that is a recent thing, and not something that was afflicting guns made more than 10 years ago. Even some Mec-Gar mags (now OEM for CZs) have had apparently weak springs. That's not a CZ issue, however.

Should Bevr have had better service from his gun? Certainly. Should he expect quick turnaround on his springs? Certainly. That's the biggest complaint, and a good one.

Should he expect perfection? He can expect it. But, hey I've even had a spring break in a Glock (trigger return). Stuff happens.
 
Clean 97 GTI: Is a manufacturer responsible for defective parts that were contracted out? Of course they are! To use your example, if Boeing contracts for a part (be it an engine or a tire) that later proves defective, they absolutely share some blame for said failure. It is the host company's responsibility to insure that all contracted parts meet strict specifications.

In the case of gun manufacturers, the very same principle applies. If,say, Colt contracted with Wolfe for their springs (does anyone believe that any gun company makes their own springs?) and a batch of Wolfe springs that were later determined to be defective were installed in some Colt pistols and sold to consumers, do you think Colt's warranty absolves them of the problem and that they should tell you to take your whining to Wolfe for a resolution?

Every company that markets a product is responsible for selling it as advertised. If contracted parts are found to be defective (and this happens all the time , of course), the company's recourse is to take it up with the supplier that THEY opted to use and either seek redress with the supplier or find another one. If an outsourced engine on a Boeing plane were to blow up and passengers were hurt or killed as a result, you can bet your boots that Boeing will find their name on the ensuing law suit as a defendant.

No company makes perfect products (not even them Glocks, as Mr. Sherrill so succinctly pointed out :) ). But when a product doesn't measure up, it is up to the company to make it right with the customer. Blaming an inferior product on a contractor the company chose to make its parts for just doesn't cut it. And if CZ made some pistols with some springs that weren't up to snuff (not saying they did), it's up to CZ to fix the customer's problem with all due haste and not the Boing Spring Company.
 
Walt you may want to ease up on the goofballs there buddy. You are reading things between the lines that just aren't there. Actually you may try reading some of the lines. I did not write that I am actually a 300 pound talking gorrila either but what the hell does that have to do with anything.

This thread was started talking about cz malfs. If you can't face it, look the other way as we talk about it a while.

How many cz's have I seen malf. Just two. How many cz's have I seen shot? Just two. Sure it is a small sample set. What am I to believe more my eyes or some everybodies ringing endorsement over the INTERNET.

I will say it one more time so that you may read it. I love cz's just not my cz. Andi if I can't get this one to work I doubt I'll be buying another.

CZ has my phone number, my address, my name and the serial number of my gun. How freaking hard should it be for them to send me the damned parts?
 
CZ

I never had any problems with my 3 CZ pistols or any kind of ammo, just no problems whatsoever. Having said that, I find it very hard to believe that Mike Eagleshield at CZ would deny you help if you need one! Send the pistol back, they will take care of you. If you want a real good action job on your CZ, send to Jim Miossi at Miossi Gun Works.
 
I bought my 75B compact used with an unknown number of rounds through it, and the recoil spring had gone soft (1997 build). I changed that with a Wolff spring, and no problems for the ~5000 rounds since.

Oh, and WWB bulk pack gives it fits. Wolf steel, laquered or plastic, no problems. It even feeds and runs *a-merc* as long as it actually goes off. Hornady XTP, federal AE, magtech, u-something or other lead reloads, Atlanta Arms, S&B, cheap surplus, no problems. Just WWB Bulk ball, particularly 115gr.

You may have extractor spring issues, but I point handily to WWB Bulk ball as suspect ammo for extraction issues if it's the *only* problem ammo. I'm still on my factory extractor spring.

Oh, and Bevr, will you take $100? :evil:
 
hessy

Don't find it too hard to believe. It's happening right now.

And why should I eat the shipping costs? and the hassle finding a dealer to send it in. etc. They can't spend 75 cents to send me 5$ worth of parts./
 
Bevrfevr, I wish I had $, as I would take your SPO1. :( I agree that every manufacturer has lemons. In my short days as a range officer on a rental range, I have seen every single name brand fail, including CZ, my former pistol, the EAA Witness, Glock, HK, Taurus, Ruger, Berreta, SiG, Walther, etc. It happens.
Everyone here who knows me knows I am a CZ nut. I have shot many many pistols, and the CZ simply fits me best, works best for me, and has been perfectly reliable, so far. That is why I have a PCR and PO1, total mag interchangabilty, and holsters, to, so if one DOES break, I have a backup.
I hope that things turn around for you, BF, I really do. If you get a chance, wrap a hand around a PO1 for grins and giggles.
 
Bevr wrote, in regard to slow customer service:

Don't find it too hard to believe. It's happening right now.

And why should I eat the shipping costs? and the hassle finding a dealer to send it in. etc. They can't spend 75 cents to send me 5$ worth of parts.
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You want the importer/factory service center to pay shipping for service on a 10-year old gun? It would be nice.

You don't have to use a dealer send it in, by the way -- you can do that yourself. Its perfectly legal. Its just not cheap. (It is a lot cheaper to have a dealer MAIL it, than for you to send it by UPS or FedEx. The difference is enough that it might be worth the time it takes, if you can find one to do it.)

Was your gun originally imported by CZ-USA? If your gun isn't CZ-USA marked, it's a USED gun as far as CZ-USA is concerned. Three or four other companies imported CZs, and a bunch of GI brought them back for "West Germany," without import marks -- some customized by Frankonia.

With a brand new gun, gun most makers will pay shipping to the factory if warranty work is needed. If its not a new gun, if its used gun, or 10 years old, most gun makers will expect you to pay for shipping the gun to them. Don't believe me? Try to get SIG to pay shipping back to the factory for a 10 year-old gun. Or a used gun. Ditto S&W, H&K, and Glock.

After your first couple of messages in this chain of messages, you claimed you liked CZs but you just didn't like yours. Later, here and in another message chain on THR, you've started warning people off CZs, complaining about CZ reliability and service. That doesn't read like someone who "likes CZs, just not mine."

Why not 'fess up: you just don't like CZs anymore...
 
poor fella

If you can't read just say so. There are people that do that for other people.

I never warned anybody off cz. not once. I did recommend that a guy keep his piece rather than trade it.

I did share my experience. What's wrong with that. If you were going to buy a pinto and somebody told you that occasionaly the gas tanks explode burning everyone involved to a hideous death. You would be the guy saying "Well I had a for truck and it didn't blow up!" But reality shows us otherwise.

And as far as shipping goes, nobody at cz ever even mentioned sending it in for service. Of course I asked about that but they ignored that part of my email. It was sort of a "fix it yourself, I'll send you the parts" response. Which I was ok with... sort of...

BUT THEY NEVER SENT THE FREAKIN PARTS!

YOu would think though that in the name of customer service, they would rather spend 75 cents than me spending at least $25 plus expenses to ship it. That is what I have a hard time with. I don't know what kind of business you are in but I do feel for any customers you may have.
 
Well for what it's worth I appreciate the photo because my CZ 85 has started to have the same problem with extraction. I am going to send it to my 'smith to get fixed as I already broke a pin punch trying to get the pin out. Hell the gun was made in 1988 and saw service with my brother in the RCMP Aux. and with a the guy who bought it new. Love the gun, wish I could get the extractor retaining pin out but no big deal.

Until just recently this gun was flawless and will be again.

Thanks Walt for all your assistance over in the CZ Forum. You are no apologist and from my experience you sure as hell can read English - at least the Canadian version. LOL

Take Care
 
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