Dad didn't pass PA background check

[Cheeseybacon]

This past weekend I went to a gun show along with my dad and a group of friends. My dad intended to buy a himself a handgun (Beretta 8000) while he was there, but unfortunately he didn't pass the automated P.I.C.S. (Pennslyvania Instant Check System) background check thing that is standard procedure for PA gun purchases. Now my dad is a very law-abiding kind of guy, so this was completely unexpected and he was absolutely shocked and horribly embarassed. I was embarassed for him, especially in front of our friends. I felt even worse after I proceeded to then buy myself a Glock 26 without hitch.

While they didn't flat out say he was denied, the dealer said that "an immediate decision cannot be made at this time", which if it's anything like applying for credit, is their polite way of saying you've been rejected/declined, right? So what could the problem be? I can say with certainty that my dad has never done anything severe enough to ever put him on a "criminals/crazy people/do not sell guns to" list. He's not had any problems buying rifles in years past, and many moons ago he bought himself a Ruger Super Single Six with no problem.

The dealer at the show suggested that he get a CCW permit first, because it would make future gun purchases much easier. The problem is, Pennsylvania issues permits based off of the results from the same P.I.C.S. system that they use to approve gun purchases, so if they wouldn't give him a gun based off that system, why the heck would they give him a permit? Does anyone know what he needs to do to get the ball rolling and get this straightened out? Is this a matter he should take up with the Sheriffs office, or possibly the State Police, or who?

 

[Ash]

All he needs is to have a bad guy somewhere with a name the same as, or similar to, his name to screw things up. Folks named Mike Smith, Dave Jones, or any other very common name find that they get delayed often.

Ash

 

[Erinyes]

IANAL, but if the PA system is anything like the NICS system, then what the dealer said is exactly what he meant. Your dad most likely got a "delayed" response. I don't know what PA state law is like, but if the dealer doesn't get a "denied" response within a few days, your dad would most likely be able to pick up the gun.

 

[45Badger]

Happens occasionally with folks with common names (Bob Smith, Pete Jones, etc). If the other Bob or Pete beat their wives, it can get confusing. Using the social security number usually helps weed out that error. Sometimes, it's just a mistake.

From what you wrote, he was not denied, just delayed. Embarrassing hassle at a weekend gun show, but if he is an "upright citizen" this should be easily correctable. Check with your favorite gun shop, but I think State Police are your next step in clearing this up.

Not sure what county you are in, but in York County, it's not just a NICs check to get a CCW. Check with your local sheriff on that.

 

[Cheeseybacon]

He definately doesn't have a common name, that's for sure.

So if it was indeed "delayed" for some crazy reason or another, will the Gun dealer be calling him in a few days telling him he's approved, or will he get something in the mail, or does he just have to go try again?

 

[LAR-15]

Sounds like he was merely delayed not denied.

Go check with whoever adminsters the insta check to get it cleared up

 

[Desk Jockey]

Happened to me in Colorado last year; an outright denial. Yes, it's embarrassing and frustrating. If he's denied, he should follow the process required for an appeal. But if he's an upstanding, law-abiding citizen, then it's almost certainly an error that can be fixed.

I had to trade letters with the Colorado Bureau of Investigation and wait a few weeks, but they straightened it out. My name isn't Smith or Jones, but someone with an arrest record has the same name and a similar birthdate. CBI said they would put a note on my file to avoid this mixup in the future. I've made one purchase since then, and was approved with just a slightly longer-than-normal wait.

 

[gyp_c2]

yup...

...it's an example of why so many of us are concerned...They make so many mistakes that it's not even funny...and it sucks that it's the law...
Delayed doesn't mean denied, but sometimes neither does denied...He'll have to follow-up on it with whatever agency oversees the damn thing though...

good luck and post a follow-up...

 

[motorheadjohn]

When I bought my 10/22 Ruger, the shop was surprised it went through. Three other sales that day hae been delayed the same as your pops, but mine went straight through. It was the Friday before Christmas

 

[DFW1911]

Happened to me...

in Colorado AFTER I had my CHL, go figure. I called CBI and they were great, got the matter straightened out in no time.

Actually I think they were a bit embarrassed as to how someone who is permitted to legally carried a concealed weapon could be denied purchasing one. It turns out those "similar name" theories are accurate, that's what happened in my situation.

Take care,
DFW1911

 

[jnojr]

CBI said they would put a note on my file to avoid this mixup in the future.

If you've never been convicted ofa crime, why is there a "file" on you?!?!

 

[bumm]

I wonder if your dad goes down in the statistics as another criminal who was kept from buying a gun?
Marty

 

[crebralfix]

Buy used. There is no check.


WrongEdit by Brian Williams, There is still a check whether new or used

 

[The Rifleman]

Again the computer is linked to the National Crime Institute Computer. That's a Federal Computer Check - not a State Computer.


When they run your name for a traffic stop in Pennsylvania - the dispatcher will say his NCIC came back clean and negative.

A gun show is the last place to purchase a firearm, especially a pistol.

Think of it like this, you have 1,000 people at that show's, that show's up with the intention of buying a new gun. Then you have 10 ouotlaws that figure that the system will be busy enough that they might get away with a unlawful gun purchase.. Hoping that they might get away with something.
Sometimes it happens.

If your dad can remember, he will tell you about just a few years ago in Pennsylvania there was a 3 day waiting period between the time you purchased a pistol and the time that they delivered it to you. That is the reason why the Brady Bill didn't affect the Pennsylvania sales of firearms and also the reason why after they changed the law that you could go into a gun store and after the Insta Check call you could take home the gun the same day. You don't need a pistol permit and it doesn't change the procedure they use to sell it to you.

PPP - Personal Protection Permits - also known as Conceled Weapons Permit are issued by the County Sheriff after they do a background check on you.
They take your picture and also $20 - $25 for 4 or 5 years.
You have to have a reason to get one - say if you are a buisnessman and carry large sums of money. If your job requires that you carry a firearm etc.. Not just because you have delusions of being Rambo or the Terminator.

If you buy a firearm for someone other than yourself, that is called a STRAW BUY. That is highly illegal in Pennsylvania. You could be arrested even for just trying to do something like that.

On weekends, during the winter, there are lot's of gun shows and such that clogs up the system due to the fact that most of the people that work at the Insta Check - NCIC are home with their family's.

The new system goes back the whole way to when you were 18. So if you got away with it in the past, and now your name comes up. The sheriff will revoke your PPP and you will not be allowed to carry a Conceled Weapon anymore. If you remember the questions on the application - they ask are you a habitual drunkard, do you have drug or alcohol problems? A DUI will make you a habitual drunkard... Do you have a history of mental illness, have you ever been committed to a mental institution? etc. etc. etc...
Have you ever been convicted of a mistermenor that was punishable by more than 2 years in jail? Have you ever been convicted of a felony?

Pennsylvania also has a Sportsman's Permit that allows you to carry a pistol while you are hunting. You are not allowed to carry it conceled and you are not allowed to transport it loaded. So basically it isn't worth the paper it is written on. If you check the Pennsylvania Laws, if you are a properly licensed hunter, wearing the mininum amount of Blaze Orange, you can carry a pistol while hunting. You can transport it to and from any designated firing range and also to and from any Licensed Gun shop for the purpose for getting it repaired without a permit.

 

[Ala Dan]

I think often times, that the system is automated to delay a rotating
numerical system, in order that they can check that persons status
a bit more closely. Also, with the NICS system anytime anyone has
been fingerprinted for any reason (even year's ago), it often times
results in a delayed status. Just tell your father too be patient, and
if nothing turns up in 'bout three working days time he probably will
be able to pick the firearm up. BTW, some times the fed's have been
known to call the dealer back before the 72 hrs is up, with an approval
status~!

 

[armedandsafe]

Happened to me a couple of years ago. Seems that NICS was convinced I was lying because I wasn't suddenly female, 32yo, and living in Columbus, OH. Seems some lady named Petra Hernandez was using my SSN, and NICS had managed to change all my personal info in their database with hers. Took some correspondence with Columbus PD, Ohio AG, US AG, FBI and ICE to get it straightened out. Columbus PD actually told me to stop worrying, because they had found the lady in question, and she had "gotten a new SSN." :banghead:

Pops

 

[geekWithA.45]

Also, with the NICS system anytime anyone has
been fingerprinted for any reason (even year's ago), it often times
results in a delayed status.

Hmmm...I don't think so.

I've been printed up the gazoo, first when I was in NJ for my FID, and again a couple of times when gwa9 & I adopted our kids. Gwa9, being a teacher, has been printed even more frequently than I.

Neither of us ever got delayed.

 

[The Rifleman]

Today, 07:15 PM #13
crebralfix
Senior Member

Join Date: 03-07-04
Posts: 123

Buy used. There is no check.


In Pennsylvania - as of January 1995, you cannot buy or sell a used firearm without first going to a licensed firearms dealer and transfering ownership.
There is a call in fee - usually $5 - $10 + the transfer fee - usually another $5 - $10 and also you must pay PA State sales tax - 6%

Anyone found selling any firearm without first transfering ownership could face fines and penalities.

I know of a man that was accused of rape while in the armed services during the Vietnam Conflict. He was given a dishonorable discharge and was never charged with anything else. He came home and lived his life with no other problems. Last year he went to the court house to obtain his new PPP and when they did his background check - his old record surfaced.

Under the new MEGANS LAW, he was told that he was no longer permitted to own or carry a pistol or firearm.
So if he never would have applied for a permit to carry - he never would have been found out.
Now he can carry a firearm for the purpose of hunting, but he is not allowed to own it...

Ignorance of the law is no excuse and you cannot say that there was not a gun dealer in you area. Pennsylvania has more FFL ( Federal Firearms License) dealers than any other state with maybe the exception of Colorado and Texas.

I wonder how many people knew that? Or that you cannot do any gun repairs - including refinishing a gun stock without one.



Only for handgun must you use a FFL and yes you must have a ffl to work on a gun

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

He definately doesn't have a common name, that's for sure.

I thought my name was somewhat unusual, turns out there are at least five Larry Ashcrafts in Colorado alone.

Two or three years ago, I got a notice from my insurance company that my insurance was going up because of my "bad driving record". Turned out that "Larry Ashcraft" in Buena Vista or someplace had been wrecking his used Cadillacs and Suburbans on a regular basis.

I've never lived in Buena Vista OR owned a Cadillac or Suburban.

Definately a mistake, it will get straightened out.

 

[The Rifleman]

The sale of new and used firearms in the local trade papers went from about 20 a week in my area to less than 5.

The reason being that some people cannot pass the new background check and the people that usually got rid of their guns after hunting season are now hanging on to them.

 

[45Badger]

Couple things-

PPP - Personal Protection Permits - also known as Conceled Weapons Permit are issued by the County Sheriff after they do a background check on you.
They take your picture and also $20 - $25 for 4 or 5 years.
You have to have a reason to get one - say if you are a buisnessman and carry large sums of money. If your job requires that you carry a firearm etc.. Not just because you have delusions of being Rambo or the Terminator.

Not in my county and state (er, Commonwealth). PA is a "shall issue" state, and York County did not care why I wanted a CCP.

and...

In Pennsylvania - as of January 1995, you cannot buy or sell a used firearm without first going to a licensed firearms dealer and transfering ownership.

Are you SURE? I think that this is true for handguns. If it is true for long guns, I know a lot of law breaking citizens of the Commonwealth

 

[Mannlicher]

so cheesy,

I was embarassed for him, especially in front of our friends. I felt even worse after I proceeded to then buy myself a Glock 26 without hitch.

So now you put it out for all the world to see.

Your Dad could probably handle this on his own, don't ya think?

 

[Brian Williams]

I often get either delayed or referred to a individual when I purchase here in PA and when ever you purchase a gun either new or used if it goes thru an FFL they must do a PICS, and if it is a handgun in PA it must have the State police paperwork done and a PICS. Having a CWP in PA does not help either.

Part of my problemis there is a guy here in Lancaster who has the same name and is a slug.

 

[Bill_G]

FTF transfer of rifles in PA does not require an FFL. both parties must be PA residents, and legally allowed to own a rifle.

FTF transfer of handguns requires FFL.

 

[Ala Dan]

I've had doctor's, attorney's, police officer's, and even a judge with NO
criminal record delayed by the Fed's NICS check system. Also, I've had
several high ranking military officals delayed cuz they were fingerprinted
when they entered military service. I was a U.S. Army medic (91A10)
during the Viet-Nam War, as well as a 20 year veteran LEO, who has
has been fingerprinted numerous times; and I NEVER get delayed~!