dangerous dogs

[rantingredneck]

Well already I've been called overly emotional and a liar by you, and you have at least implied that I lack the "intelligence to separate emotion from critical thinking" so I guess you're right there on the low road too. At this point I've got nothing more to contribute to this discussion without furthering the descent. I will however stand by my earlier statements wholeheartedly and bid you a good day sir.

 

[joab]

Good for you, it wasn't posturing. I related a personal experience and my thoughts both at the time and now.

Posturing

And if you owned that dog, and you do anything other than express your heartfelt remorse for keeping it, you just might be next

Posturing

He's lucky I ran out of shotshells, or he'd likely be right next to 'fluffy.'

I can point out more if you'd like

Perhaps you 'skipped' a few lines too. The dog was a danger, the owner had been warned by animal control half-a-dozen times to destroy the dog or keep him indoors. The owner refused, said it was his right to keep any animal he wanted; plus 'fluffy' wouldn't hurt a fly. And he never will again.more posturing by the way

I skipped nothing and nothing that you just wrote has any relevance to your chasing the dog down and shooting it in front of the owner, that was vengence pure and simple

That is what my wife the PA is for; my job is to stop the threat, permanentlyP word again

The threat was gone, remember you had to chase it down the street

Well excuuuussssseee me! I didn't realize that I needed your permission or approval to state that when you keep a dangerous animal that has previously done harm, that you were warned to destroy it or keep it indoors, than when you knowingly and negligently let the animal out and it attacks someone, that you suddenly have the right to claim a grievance against the person who puts it down.

What happened to the macho man, why the whining
Do we now need your permission to critique your actions or your rationalizing of them
The dpg was not a threat it was gone, you had to chase it dowm remeber

Lemme get this straight. You have a vicious animal. You know its vicious, you've been told by animal control its vicious; to destroy it or keep it indoors. (In fact, he was ordered by a court to keep it indoors unless it was on a CHAIN leash being held by the owner). You let the animal out in the back yard, then you see someone in the FRONT yard shooting the dog... AND YOU ARE GOING TO RUN OUT INTO A GUNFIGHT AGAINST A MAN ALREADY SHOOTING!?!

You are a fool if that is what you'd do.

You're the one shooting into someone else's property and I'm the fool
You are a foll if you think that people will not shoot you from cover
You are also a non reading fool if you can show me where I said that I would do any of that, I merely asked a question. maybe some of your macho bretheren would shoot you in the back for do such a thing
And again more rationalizing
The dog was not a threat you had to chase it down in it's own yard

Of course this country is full of fools, so I guess its conceivable that you would shoot a man over shooting your vicious animal IN THE FRONT YARD, when you let it out in the back..

Of course this country is full of fools, so I guess its conceivable that you would shoot a man over shooting your vicious animal IN THE FRONT YARD, when you let it out in the back...

Try using that thing on top of your shoulders for thinking instead of as a hat rack. Anyone in either situation would know precisely why the dog was being shot; to run out guns a blazing would guarantee your own demise, wounding, and if you lived, imprisonment for a very very very long time. Juries don't seem to have much patience for people who knowingly and purposefully put at risk others... Were my daughter to have died, our district prosecutor said he would have sought second degree murder charges against the owner, and believes he would have secured a conviction.

Why don''t get your head out of your hatrack
Where have I even implied that I would run out guns a blazing
I said nothing of the sort.
The fact that that is the scenario that you create in your head shows that i was so right about your propensity for macho posturing


But see redneck he didn't go anywhere
Did you really think that he would

 

[50 Shooter]

Brainstem,
I feel for you and your daughter as I have been there, being a child attacked by a large dog. I know if it would've been me in your shoes I would've done the same thing.

The only thing that still amuses me to this day about my story is my dad, when he saw me covered in blood he passed out. My dad is going to be 66 this year and I still wouldn't want to fight him.

I feel the most for your daughter as she has to deal with other kids, that will be the worst as kids can be the harshest. I know it's not their fault as they don't understand, it will take you, your wife and your daughter to explain it to them. I've lost count of how many times that I've told my story to people that I meet. Hopefully with plastic surgery making bigger advances now from when I was a kid your daughter will be able to live a great life. I usually don't see my biggest scar unless I've been out in the sun.

 

[Crunker1337]

Brainstem, though I'm not a father, I feel for you man. I can't imagine what it would be like to see your daughter in that state.

While I agree that you were within your rights to kill the dog; even chase it until it's dead, allow me to point out:
- while you didn't do anything wrong in killing the dog, you probably should have been more worried about helping your daughter by stopping the bleeding, taking her to a safe location, or making the location safe. You didn't do any of those by shooting the fleeing dog, though doing so was perfectly understandable; and you probably saved animal control some trouble. It probably would have been best to fire a shot at the dog to make sure it would give you a wide birth, then giving your daughter (who I'm assuming was in serious pain/blacked out by now) your undivided medical attention.
- implying that you'd have shot the owner, idiot that he is, is quite frankly disturbing. While I understand that in an elevated emotional KILL EVERYTHING state it would be quite hard to think clearly, it's quite another thing to say afterwards, now that you should be able to think clearly and dispassionately, that you would indeed have killed the owner. Let's think about it like this, the owner was not threatening you (though he was being a major a**), he was no clear threat to you, and shooting him would accomplish nothing. Your daughter's condition would not have improved, the dog would not have been any more dead, nothing. In fact, you'd make things even harder on your family by going to jail. While I totally understand that in passion you may well have killed him, think. That would not have been justified by any means. You are accountable for your actions, no matter how angry you are, not matter how bad your daughter was hurt.

Please don't judge this whole forum by one poster, immature and dastardly as one of his comments were.

 

[joab]

Well already I've been called overly emotional and a liar by you, and you have at least implied that I lack the "intelligence to separate emotion from critical thinking" so I guess you're right there on the low road too. At this point I've got nothing more to contribute to this discussion without furthering the descent. I will however stand by my earlier statements wholeheartedly and bid you a good day sir.

Wow, still twisting huh?
I asked a specific question when you could not answer it honestly you ducked it, what do you call that
Where have I called you overly emotional
A little hypocritical maybe but where have I said overly emotional
Like I said I do not allow my words to be twisted, honest people don't have to do that anyway
Have the day you deserve , sir

Wow I must have missed this particular piece of posturing
care to show me where I alluded to "coming out shooting"

And yes, I'm more than brave enough to shoot a vicious animal that nearly mauled my daughter to death NO MATTER WHERE HE IS. And if you come out shooting as you have alluded too, you better hope hope that "fortune favors the foolish."

Now you are threatening to shoot me?

 

[cwdotson]

best

Brainstem, I haven't been on this forum long and I've already seen a lot of folks who make various comments on just about any and every topic, up to and including cooments of the insulting nature, but this takes the cake. We don't know her name but will put your daughter in our prayers. Despite the sad and greivous injuries, she is a survivor, and help her understand that she is and keep her strong, with what she will face in the future.

We weren't there and our children didn't take this, so I guess it's really easy to second-guess your actions. Regardless, the response posted regarding your actions was pointless and disgusting-It makes me feel like vomiting--Maybe it's time I found some other way to spend spare time than here.

 

[Crunker1337]

Why are some people getting so offended? True, Noxx made one inappropriate comment, but everyone's offered sympathy for Brainstem's daughter. All some of us are saying is that he could have handled the situation a bit better, and that killing the dog's owner would have been immoral and illegal.

This culture of victimhood is rather disturbing; the moment you suggest that the victim could have done a bit better you get called unsympathetic, non-human, and pretty much get threatened.
Try to not let your emotions cloud your thinking, people.

 

[toivo]

I asked a specific question when you could not answer it honestly you ducked it, what do you call that
Where have I called you overly emotional

Here is where you called him--and me--emotional:

And these comments are trips down the emotional road

It's in Post #115, in case you forgot.

I'll say it again: Noxx may have had a valid criticism of what Brainstem posted. But rather than make one, he chose to make a crude, sarcastic insult. Now he's getting heat for it. Why the shock and outrage?

 

[coyote_jr]

BTL

 

[Cosmoline]

it gets loose and does to my child what that one did, and you do anything except declare your heartfely sorrow and misery for what you did, and the likelyhood is you will end up right next to that dog.

That would be MURDER, boyo. Watch yourself. Even if provoked, if you are armed you must take control of your emotions. You can't kill someone for failing to express sufficient sympathy.

 

[hankpac]

After reading the entire thread, I am wowed by how far the content strayed from teh original post and question.
1. the initial reaction was exactly right. Since he didin't have spray, pulling the gun was appropriate. A dog is not a human, but it is a creature that can act on it's own volition. It will harm you, but it does not have to rise toa life threat to merit killin it.
2. yes the person defending himself SHOULD have called the law, and advised them of a dog running loose. If it is a urban area, it probably has an ordinance against dogs runing loose. File a complaint, since documentation is the only way the local court can act against the owner, and take and put down the dog if needed.
I recently filed a complaint against a friend's neighbor, when her dog ran off the protperty to attack me in the street. I was able to run it off, but it was clearly agressive, and on the attack. I had a 2X2 in my hands so I felt I could deal with it, a pit bull mix wearing a chest harness.
When the officer took the lady to court, it turned out she had already been ticketed for loose dogs, and had been given a 90 day suspension (stay out of trouble for 90 days, or the first sentence gets enacted, in addition to any new actions) She didn't make 30 days. the court said get rid of the dogs, move from the town, or we will seize the dogs, and destroy them.
I was satisfied, the lady moved, and took the dogs with her.

 

[jaholder1971]

I live in a small town that has leash laws. My wife also has house rabbits that she's built special "bunny runs" in her garden so when she's outside she can let the furballs out without them running off.

Any dog found in my yard unleashed while the rabbits are out there gets intercepted pretty quickly and sent packing. Any dog making a beeline for the rabbits will get shot, there's a .22 magnum rifle in the garden shed for that purpose.

Dangerous dogs? No brainer. Dog are property and there's no reason to let a dog injure you before it's dead. If it's running at large and so much as growls it's dead.

 

[Cosmoline]

I assume you'd have no problem with a neighbor shooting any stray rabbits.

 

[joab]

Here is where you called him--and me--emotional:

Yeah, and?

Where have I denied that
Show me that post in case I forgot

No go back and read and tell how your answer even remotely answer the question asked, which is
where have I implied that seeing your child mauled by a dog not an emotional experience?
Should I show you that exchange in case you forgot

I'll say it again: Noxx may have had a valid criticism of what Brainstem posted. But rather than make one, he chose to make a crude, sarcastic insult.

And he apologized for that, but did not back off that valid criticism and that is what he continued to catch heat for
I can show you that in case you forgot

Why the shock and outrage?

Exactly
Why do you feel the need to be shocked and outraged?

 

[toivo]

Where have I denied that
Show me that post in case I forgot

Right here:

Where have I called you overly emotional
A little hypocritical maybe but where have I said overly emotional

It's Post #130. I'm tired of doing your homework for you. Next time, look it up for yourself. You should know what you've posted.

Saying "Where have I said X?" is a denial of having said it. It's that simple.

The reason Noxx continues to get heat is that his apology was less than total and less than sincere. It falls into the all-too-familiar category of "I'm sorry if you were offended, but you didn't understand me--what I really meant was X and I'm still right and you're still wrong." While our celebrity culture might consider this an apology, I'm happy to see that many of the people on this board don't.

When Noxx took the low road, he blew his credibility. He may have had a point originally, but by entering the discussion in the way he did, he lost his audience. At that point, the best thing to do is to apologize and step back from the argument. Choosing to continue guarantees lots of heat. Having a valid point doesn't excuse low-blow tactics. In fact, it's the opposite: the tactics invalidate the message.

I'm not shocked and I'm not outraged. I'm just disappointed in the level of discussion here and generally sick of this whole thread. Have fun beating this dead horse.

 

[joab]

You responded to a post by Redneck without doing your homework now tell me how what he said has anything to do with what I said in my first post

Saying "Where have I said X?" is a denial of having said it. It's that simple.

Well at least you comprehend that much
Now go back and show me where I said that he was OVERLY emotional
Like I said I don't allow my words to be twisted
When you finish that tell me how my first post commenting on the emotional nature of the insults spewed at Noxx has anything to do with the emotions of a father who's child has been mauled
Do some of your own homework
I say again I don't allow my words to be twisted, honest people wouldn't do that anyway

Now on to the hipocracy

The reason Noxx continues to get heat is that his apology was less than total and less than sincere. It falls into the all-too-familiar category of "I'm sorry if you were offended, but you didn't understand me--what I really meant was X and I'm still right and you're still wrong." While our celebrity culture might consider this an apology, I'm happy to see that many of the people on this board don't.

He apologized completely for how he said it, did your 'homework" not get that far
He did not apologized for the sentiment which should be fine with you since you are the one who said

I'll say it again: Noxx may have had a valid criticism of what Brainstem posted. But rather than make one, he chose to make a crude, sarcastic insult. Now he's getting heat for it.

Now how does that mesh with the comment I quoted above
Does he have the right according to you to make the observation or not
Apparently in your world if you do not present your critiques in what you feel is a socially acceptable way then he loses his right to make any comment

it's the opposite: the tactics invalidate the message.

Only to very simple minded people

 

[toivo]

OK, now we're quibbling over the use of the word "overly." This is getting ridiculous.

Noxx has the right to say whatever he wants. If he chooses to do it in an insulting way, he should expect to get some heat for it, and he should expect that heat to continue as long as the discussion continues. That's what's happening now. The horse is dead. The original poster seems to have left the building. You can keep calling me a hypocrite and playing the "find where I said X" game as long as you want. I think I've made myself clear.

 

[joab]

I thought you took your baseball home already

Words mean things and by applying the word overly to the comment you have changed the comment

Why should you not also recieve heat for the insulting and juvenile way you are behaving for as long as you act insulting and juvenile

I don't allow people to twist my words and lie about what I say. I can show you where you two have done that
The fact that neither of you can back up the things you are attributing to me speaks all that needs be about your credibility
Well that and the fact that you say one thing and then another and try to back pedal between the two and then there's the whole twisting to make your point thing

 

[toivo]

See Post #142.

OK, now I'm really done. I think we're the only two people left in this thread anyway. It's been fun.

 

[50 Shooter]

Actually you're the only two arguing over what someone else said, which BTW was uncalled for. Just let it go and move on as it isn't adding anything useful to the thread.

 

[joab]

True but Noxx's observation was valid and should be explored
And now that he has completely apologized for the way he made the statement then that should not be an issue anymore to anyone that is over the age of twelve

The fact that some choose to attack the poster, and those that see through the manner and look only at the validity of the statement, by making verifiably untrue statements is unfortunate

 

[Brainstem]

Ya know, I really intended not to post another thing on this forum... until out of curiostiy I read a few of the responses.

Yup, I came off as a bully and a jerk. nope, I didn't intend it that way.

No, I don't have any animosity towards Noxx or joab, and I think that they both make valid points. i am a very 'reactionary' type person, probably why I've been in combat arms platoons my entire 19 years in the Army. Two declared wars and three theatres later, I'm still doing what I do.. shooting and breaking things.

I will say that a few of the responses made me re-evaluate my thoughts on the matter.

I would also clarify a point. I never meant that I would shoot a dog's owner if they weren't suffeciently remorseful; what I meant to say was that in such an enraged state I would be very likely to do violence if the dogs owner, knowing that he had a vicious animal; an animal that just nearly killed a 7 year old child, tried to defend the dog's actions. That is what I meant to say.

The guy knew what his dog did, he's the one that called him home.. that's why I chased that cur down.. he wasn't going to get away. All the dog's owner had to do was put him in the truck and drive 1/2 mile across state lines and he was home free. THAT dog was going to pay, right then and there. THAT dog did it, I saw him with my own two eyes. And THAT owner knew what a dangerous animal he had. He often bragged about training 'fluffy' (his actual name) to 'attack' on command. He knowingly and purposefully trained that dog to be a razor, a weapon. THAT weapon was going to be destroyed then and there.

 

[gunsmith]

getting back to the topic

The OP should carry a glock in a proper holster.

At this point I removed my pistol and chambered a round and drew a bead on the dogs head.

An unloaded gun is an expensive paperweight, a glock is safe to carry one in the pipe.
I guess you feel safer if it should happen to fall out of your pocket, but you can drop a loaded glock and it wont go bang.

 

[Don Gwinn]

We'll let that bit of advice be the end of the thread. I can't believe you guys turned this into six pages of drama.