dangerous dogs

[rantingredneck]

Perhaps, but you still came off as a heartless jerk. It would be one thing to counsel cool heads in general when dealing with dangerous dogs and their owners. It's quite another to be a smart @ss to a man who posted what he did.

 

[Brainstem]

Perhaps.

But this thread has seen far too many posts to the tune of "Not only will I shoot a dog, but the owner too".

That sort of agressive, pointless posturing, is why the other half of the country is trying to legislate us out of existence.

Like I said. You keep a dangerous animal, it gets loose and does to my child what that one did, and you do anything except declare your heartfely sorrow and misery for what you did, and the likelyhood is you will end up right next to that dog. Owning a dog is MORE of a responsibiity than a firearm. guns don't go off for no reason, dogs are living animals and can suddenly and violently have a schism. If you knew about the animals behaviour and did nothing to stop it, like destroying the animal, you are guilty of the attack; not the animal. And as such, you will be punished. Just like that wacko broad in San Francisco who's dogs mauled her neighbor to death. Where is she now? Still in prison.

So, be honest. If that happened to you, would you calmly and politely wait for the police while some idiot screamed at you about shooting fluffy???

Didn't think so.

Like I said, you best stay on your side of the fence.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

perhaps?

definitly the lowest.
the times i've had to deal with what i call the typical moron who prides himself on his "bad" dog shooting the owner is often preferable to shooting the dog. not the dogs fault. i've seen it in the weirdest ways a friend had his pit chopper in his own yard when a neighbor walked her ****zu by the ****zu charged chopper in choppers yard got one bite and the doggie er m chopper got exiled once again a moron dog owner cost a dog big.

 

[Noxx]

Perhaps, but you still came off as a heartless jerk.

I'll give you that. I could have been a lot less flip. My apologies to Brainstem if you thought I was making light of the injuries your daughter received, I'm not. I intended to point out the line between defense and revenge.

 

[Noxx]

So, be honest. If that happened to you, would you calmly and politely wait for the police while some idiot screamed at you about shooting fluffy???

I don't know what I'd do until I was there. I'd like to think I'd keep a gun on that goof until the police showed up.

I have however been involved in a fatal altercation before, and I can tell you that there a lot of repercussions that don't spring to mind in emotional moments.

What I can tell you, is that if the man himself is not an immediate threat, it would be criminal to shoot the guy, and you're not doing your family any favors from prison.

 

[Brainstem]

Revenge? No. I'm just asking you to think for a moment as to what that was like. You think that combat is heated? It is, but its nothing like watching your daughter be mauled by a vicious dog. Emotions are hot, and when the person's completely knowledgeable about the behaviour of the dog... well, it only compounds the probelm when he tries to defend the dog's actions.

I've been in combat and done really bad things for much less than having my child nearly mauled to death.

There is only one thing that the owner of a dog can do when it mauls someone. Express sincere sorrow and heartfelt remorse. Justifications only make the blood boil hotter. Just thinking of it now nearly makes me angry, and very very sad.

Who will ever want to marry her?

She will be alone. Because of some POS dog owner. 71/2 months in the pokey isn't nearly enough for the lifetime of hurt my daugher will suffer.

So put that in your pipe and smoke it.

 

[rantingredneck]

Exactly how does this:

I am in awe of your manliness. May I touch you?

Accomplish that:

I intended to point out the line between defense and revenge.

My take on it is you took a trip down the Low Road, got called out and now are trying hard to justify it.

 

[Noxx]

FWIW, I'm also just going to admit that I did in fact, read the first and last lines of your post before making said flip response, so that ones on me, hang me out to dry.

 

[toivo]

I intended to point out the line between defense and revenge.

Your snide comment about this tragic event made no mention of either defense or revenge. Nice backpedal, but it doesn't wash.

 

[rantingredneck]

Brainstem, again you have my deepest sympathies. My daughter will be seven next month. She and my 2 year old son were on my mind when I had my little chat with our neighbor about their dog and property lines the other morning. God bless.

 

[Brainstem]

I haven't any more time for this thread.. Probably not for this board either. Thanks for the welcome to the new guy!

 

[JWarren]

Brainstem,

I hope you don't judge THR by the comments of one person. That was, by far, the lowest response in light of your situation I've ever read on this or any other forum... ever. You are owed at the very least more than the half-assed, insensitive, and still rationalizing apology that you recieved. Sorry if that is blunt, but I call 'em the way I see them.

I put my 2 cents on this thread a while back and left it behind me. However, your story deeply affected me. You and your family will be in my thoughts and prayers.


Please stick around, my friend.


-- John

 

[ar10]

99% of dog owners get the dog because they are "cute/cuddlely". As the dog grows they're either locked in the house all day or in a fenced back yard barking at everything that passes by. Some even take them for a walk once a day. The majority of the time they're ignored. And you wonder why the dog is a "viscious" animal?

 

[Mannix]

The rules of engagement for dogs and other animals are different than for 2 legged critters. Dogs have no rights! I should not have to show that the dog posed a lethal threat, the threat of injury should be enough. That's why dogs get put down for biting people, even if it didn't kill the person. The possible life long injuries to a human that may be the consequence of a dog bite infinitely outweighs the life of the dog. Any dog tries to attack another dog or a human without provocation needs to be either needs to be contained so it cannot attack anyone, trained to not do so any more, or put down. Any dog that successfully causes harm to a human needs to be put down, period. Any owner who fails to do any of them and their dog ends up killing someone needs to be put in jail.

For the record, I love dogs. I have also been attacked by a few dogs and have never sought to have the dog put down. I did, however, make sure the owners kept their dogs on a tighter leash and I recommended they go to the community education dog training course at the local high school.

 

[joab]

My take on it is you took a trip down the Low Road, got called out and now are trying hard to justify it.

Your snide comment about this tragic event made no mention of either defense or revenge. Nice backpedal, but it doesn't wash.

And these comments are trips down the emotional road

I understood exactly what Noxx was referring to and I too am tired of the endless macho posturing on these boards

Chasing a dog down the street and shooting him on his lawn away from the attack and not an immediate danger and then wishing that you had enough rounds left to shoot the owner is also far from High Road

I have been involved in an animal attack and my first concern was stopping the bleeding on the child not inflicting revenge on the animal and the owner

While we can sympathize with the girl and her father that does not change the fact that expressing a desire to shoot the owner is no more High Road than calling that comment out is.

You also have to consider what you would do if a crazed man was firing into your property at your dog if you were not aware of why he was doing it
Would it be unHigh Roady to say that I probably would shoot back?

 

[rantingredneck]

And these comments are trips down the emotional road

I understood exactly what Noxx was referring to and I too am tired of the endless macho posturing on these boards

How is seeing your 7 year old daughter savaged by a dog not an emotional experience? Is it un-High Road to be honest about the feelings he was having during an emotionally charged moment in his life? The comment Noxx made was inexcuseable and has probably cost THR a new member. Seems people are quick to judge his actions as "macho posturing". Please....

 

[toivo]

While we can sympathize with the girl and her father that does not change the fact that expressing a desire to shoot the owner is no more High Road than calling that comment out is.

The problem is that he didn't criticize or "call it out" the comment--he mocked the person who made it. He made no reference to the action taken, but merely insulted the man in an offensive, inappropriate, and childish way.

 

[joab]

How is seeing your 7 year old daughter savaged by a dog not an emotional experience?

Where have even implied that it is not?
I don't allow twisting of my words, now go back and show me where I said anything about Brainstem's emotions at all

The comment Noxx made was inexcuseable and has probably cost THR a new member. Seems people are quick to judge his actions as "macho posturing". Please....

So it is uncalled for for Noxx to give his assessment of the comments made by Brainstem but it is perfectly understandable for Brainstem to give his honest assessment of an event,
Some people are easily swayed by a sad story, please indeed

He is brave enough to shoot onto another's property but not to have his actions critiqued on a web site?

He made no reference to the action taken, but merely insulted the man in an offensive, inappropriate, and childish way.

He insulted the man's action's in a smart ass way
Heart breaking story aside his actions and comments were just as inappropriate as Noxx's

How is it that I understood Noxx's point exactly and you did not, emote much?

 

[Brainstem]

I understood exactly what Noxx was referring to and I too am tired of the endless macho posturing on these boards

Good for you, it wasn't posturing. I related a personal experience and my thoughts both at the time and now.

Chasing a dog down the street and shooting him on his lawn away from the attack and not an immediate danger and then wishing that you had enough rounds left to shoot the owner is also far from High Road

Perhaps you 'skipped' a few lines too. The dog was a danger, the owner had been warned by animal control half-a-dozen times to destroy the dog or keep him indoors. The owner refused, said it was his right to keep any animal he wanted; plus 'fluffy' wouldn't hurt a fly. And he never will again.

I have been involved in an animal attack and my first concern was stopping the bleeding on the child not inflicting revenge on the animal and the owner

That is what my wife the PA is for; my job is to stop the threat, permanently.

While we can sympathize with the girl and her father that does not change the fact that expressing a desire to shoot the owner is no more High Road than calling that comment out is.

Well excuuuussssseee me! I didn't realize that I needed your permission or approval to state that when you keep a dangerous animal that has previously done harm, that you were warned to destroy it or keep it indoors, than when you knowingly and negligently let the animal out and it attacks someone, that you suddenly have the right to claim a grievance against the person who puts it down.

You also have to consider what you would do if a crazed man was firing into your property at your dog if you were not aware of why he was doing it
Would it be unHigh Roady to say that I probably would shoot back?

Lemme get this straight. You have a vicious animal. You know its vicious, you've been told by animal control its vicious; to destroy it or keep it indoors. (In fact, he was ordered by a court to keep it indoors unless it was on a CHAIN leash being held by the owner). You let the animal out in the back yard, then you see someone in the FRONT yard shooting the dog... AND YOU ARE GOING TO RUN OUT INTO A GUNFIGHT AGAINST A MAN ALREADY SHOOTING!?!

You are a fool if that is what you'd do.

Of course this country is full of fools, so I guess its conceivable that you would shoot a man over shooting your vicious animal IN THE FRONT YARD, when you let it out in the back...

Try using that thing on top of your shoulders for thinking instead of as a hat rack. Anyone in either situation would know precisely why the dog was being shot; to run out guns a blazing would guarantee your own demise, wounding, and if you lived, imprisonment for a very very very long time. Juries don't seem to have much patience for people who knowingly and purposefully put at risk others... Were my daughter to have died, our district prosecutor said he would have sought second degree murder charges against the owner, and believes he would have secured a conviction.

 

[Brainstem]

He is brave enough to shoot onto another's property but not to have his actions critiqued on a web site?

WHAT CRITIQUE?

And yes, I'm more than brave enough to shoot a vicious animal that nearly mauled my daughter to death NO MATTER WHERE HE IS. And if you come out shooting as you have alluded too, you better hope hope that "fortune favors the foolish."

 

[rantingredneck]

Where have even implied that it is not?

Already quoted above.

I don't allow twisting of my words, now go back and show me where I said anything about Brainstem's emotions at all

Didn't twist them.

So it is uncalled for for Noxx to give his assessment of the comments made by Brainstem but it is perfectly understandable for Brainstem to give his honest assessment of an event,
Some people are easily swayed by a sad story, please indeed

No, it's uncalled for for noxx to be a complete obnoxious smartass and then to be in complete denial about it. He could have critiqued what was said by Brainstem in a vastly different manner and we wouldn't be having this discussion right now.

He is brave enough to shoot onto another's property but not to have his actions critiqued on a web site?

Now who's posturing?

He insulted the man's action's in a smart ass way
Heart breaking story aside his actions and comments were just as inappropriate as Noxx's

If that is the case it could have been handled much better by Noxx and by you come to think of it.

How is it that I understood Noxx's point exactly and you did not, emote much?

Are you not human? I understood Noxx's point. His original point was to be an a-hole and he got called out and started backpedalling.

 

[Sindawe]

Brainstem, I'll echo JWarren's comments to not let the comments of ONE individual turn you off of the entire forum. Noxx's comments were crass and most definatly NOT representative of the caliber of people whe have here.

Though I'm not a big fan of children, I fully understand and support your views on shooting the animal the mauled your daughter. Such behavior in ANY domestic animal is not to be tolerated. Your situation soulds a lot like what one of my friends went through in his neighborhood, with one of his less than considerate neighbors keeping uncontrolled dogs that had a history of attacking people. The only reason those doggies were not dead the night they attacked a pedestrian walking her dog is that the doggies had run home by the time my friend had returned with his SKS. Even the town cops asked my friend why he did not shoot the canine vermin dead.

 

[Jamie C.]

Y'know, I'm still trying to get my head around the concept that people have a right to let their animals run around and do as they please, and that nobody else has a right to do anything about it... It's absolutely astounding.

The fact is, it's the animal's owner who is obligated to keep the animal out of any situation that may get the animal killed. Period. It's not the general public's place to have to go to any extra effort to avoid a conflict or a problem with said animal.

Let me put it this way: I have six dogs. Their combined weight is more than a quarter ton, with the little one of the bunch being over 50 pounds. Any one of them get out of our fenced-in yard, and I fully expect it to catch a bullet before I can round it up and get it back inside. And that's just how it should be.

Sorry, but this whole "Shoot my dog and I'll shoot you" attitude is a load of crap. There are laws in most states that require you to keep your pets up, and if you break them YOU are the criminal, not the person who's forced to deal with your pet.

Anyway, if it were my dog that mauled Brainstem's daughter, odds are he wouldn't have gotten the chance to kill it, 'cause I'd have done the job myself before he could have gotten to it. Probably would've the second I thought it even had such tendencies. But that's just me.


J.C.

 

[joab]

Redneck if you want to stick to a lie that is your choice I asked you to point out where I even mentioned Brainstems emotions not where I commented on the posts of other memebrs, but if all you have to go on is twists then I guess that is all you can do

He could have critiqued what was said by Brainstem in a vastly different manner and we wouldn't be having this discussion right now.

I think we would, it just would not have open the door to the equally low road rebuttals

Now who's posturing?

Perhaps you should look up osturing

If that is the case it could have been handled much better by Noxx and by you come to think of it.

If not for your comments on his comments I probably would have commented differently
See how low road begets low road begets low road
But then I am not an emotional person

Are you not human? I understood Noxx's point. His original point was to be an a-hole and he got called out and started backpedalling.

So now we descend to low road ad homs
Yes I am human and possess the human intelligence to seperate emotion from critical thinking as apparently you do not. You kinda look a little a-holish with that comment yourself

 

[Noxx]

Well let's just all consecrate the culture of victimhood shall we? The hallowed american tradition that if you are the innocent victim of misfortune, you are right, and just, and beyond question.

Was my original comment inappropriate? Yes it was, and I apologized for it, however it seems for many here an "unmitigated" apology should include "Not only was I incorrect, but you are wholly in the right, attractive, and smell nice.".

Being sorry you said something carelessly does not divest you of your right to an opinion. It sounds like a bunch of Al Sharpton's in here "NO NO NO, you *said*...".

To those of you who think we lose a poster over that, allow me to inform you, the people who publicly threaten to take their ball and go home, are usually the last to leave. Control your empathy.

Now, I'll go ahead and say what I should have said in the first place.

Brainstem, I find your attitude towards the situation you were involved in thuggish. The assertation that you are within your rights not only that time, but any in any subsequent incident, to shoot the owner of the animal who is not an immediate threat to your life or others, simply because you are in an elevated emotional state, disturbing to say the least.

The hypocrisy engendered here by emotional response, not only by the poster, but by many responding posters, dismays me greatly. I have heard many times on this board "If only the ACLU would remember the 2nd amendment is a civil liberty too.." etc. Well when we're touting our RKBA, remember the 5th amendment as well, they are not for you to pick and choose.

No person shall be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without the due process of the law.

When you assert that you will shoot someone, and feel within your rights to do so, simply because they "deserve it", you demonstrate the same sort of mental gymnastics as the extreme leftists who tell us that homicide isn't the poor criminals fault because daddy beat him.

If you'll look elsewhere on this board, you will find a very recent thread where a man was beaten to death by an emotionally charged mob because a child was injured by a car he was a passenger in.

Compare the responses on that thread, to this. Why are they so different, why do they make you feel differently? Ask yourself the hard questions, do posters here value Brainstems neighbors life differently because Brainstem is "one of us"?

I'm not nearly as disturbed by BS admitting he wanted to shoot the guy, wanting to is one thing, but by his statement that I originally quoted, that if I don't apologize to him for his having to shoot my dog, he'd shoot me too.

Hi, that's crazy. More importantly, it's wrong. Legally, morally, it's wrong. It's bad judgement, I don't agree with it, and seeing it paraded under the guise of righteousness p***** me off.

That's all I've got to say about that.