Daystate, simply amazing!

[gamestalker]

My youngest son came over tonight asking me if he could borrow one of my Leupold or Vortex scopes for a new pellet gun he bought. He has a fixed 6x Leupold on it right now. I was like, are you crazy, I'm not letting you put one of my good scopes on an a pellet gun, just so I can get stuck with the shipping for having to send it in for repair. But he explained that by design it doesn't shake the internals loose like most air guns, something I don't completely understand.

Then he showed me what he had bought, not your average every day pellet rifle. First of all, it's a really nice looking rifle, great wood work. I didn't even know about these, but I haven't been able to yet confirm his claim of near 3000 fps, though it sure seems to be screaming when I shot it. And accurate beyond any pellet rifle I've ever shot. He can shoot .177, 22 cal, .25 cal pellets, and also .30 cal., imagine a .30 cal. pellet rifle, and he also said something about a .40 cal. barrel. But what got me, is this is no toy, not at all. He said he was getting velocities across the chrony in excess of 2500 fps to 3000 fps depending on the settings. I know very little about it at this point, I only got to spend less than an hour with it shooting.25 cal. pellets, which was pretty amazing.

He also told me that Arizona game laws have deemed it legal for deer hunting, unconfirmed by me, but all interesting claims.

Anyone else heard of these air tank rifles? Are they really what they are said to be? Feed me, I can't seem to find out what they are truly capable of concerning velocities.

GS

 

[WNTFW]

Gamestalker,
IIRC all Leupolds are airgun rated but not parallax adjusted down to short range.
You can check with Leupold. Don't go by my memory!

Also they can adjust the parallax down to what you want as well.

Also the big bore stuff is used to kill larger game - look on youtube and there should be some videos.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=big+bore+air+gun+kills

 

[entropy]

Caveat-Pellet guns put scopes through harder recoil than most Magnum rifles. It's just directed 180 deg. from the usual way.

 

[jmorris]

I have pushed .22 cal pellets over 2000 fps, but not pneumatically.

The Daystate air ranger is pretty impressive but falls around 2000fps shy of pushing a pellet 3k fps.

http://www.daystate.com/manuals/im/x2_technical_specifications.html

 

[GLOOB]

Sounds like a bunch of hogwash. Pellets don't fly straight at supersonic speeds. And firing a solid bullet at 3000 fps is ridiculous. Even if it only weighed 7.9 grains, that would still vaporize a good bit of solid steel on contact. I'll believe that from a shoulderable 8lb air rifle when I see it.

But great wood stock and accuracy? Yes, I believe that!

 

[entropy]

OK, I was referring to spring piston guns. The recoil is from the spring compressing the air in the cylinder. This can often exceed .300 Win Mag. levels.
Scopes made expressly for airguns are actually made more recoil-resistant than most regular rifle scopes. Only ones designed to withstand .50 BMG are made stronger.

Obviously this doesn't apply to constant air action guns; the tank provides the pressure there, nor to Co2 guns, the Co2 cylinder provides it.

And yes there are air rifles capable of taking deer.

http://www.pyramydair.com/a/Air_guns/588/vel_1300_0T1650_0/page_1/brands_12

http://www.pyramydair.com/a/Air_guns/588/brands_18

Poke around the Sam Yang guns. Plenty of candidates for a deer pellet gun. I haven't seen the Daystate yet.

 

[JohnKSa]

He said he was getting velocities across the chrony in excess of 2500 fps to 3000 fps depending on the settings.

Something's wrong with the chronograph. The most powerful airguns typically fall a little short of duplicating blackpowder velocities.

The gun sounds like a PCP (Pre-Charged Pneumatic) and they generally provide the highest power in airguns. They have none of the odd recoil associated with spring-piston airguns but can have recoil similar to a blackpowder firearm dependent on velocities and pellet weights.

Daystate is generally known for producing top-quality airguns. Sounds like he has good taste.

 

[gamestalker]

It's not hog wash, this is a real deal big game air rifle. And these pellets weren't 7.9 grs., they were like 50 grains. And I believe they were 25 caliber, maybe .30 cal.. Like I said, I didn't get a lot of time with it, and it was dark, I only got to shoot a few rounds with the head lights on. But it was really cool. It was rather loud, really loud actually for an air gun. And recoil was also quite noticeable, and of conventional type, such as what one might experience with a center fire weapon, though not excessive.

I did a quick search, and yes, people are killing deer with these. The tank can be charged to like 2,600 psi, he says 3K psi, ut my quick search referenced 2,600 psi. which really isn't all that much when compared to the pressures created with a center fire cartridge. And velocities don't appear to be what I thought he was saying, though I haven't fully researched this yet. I think maximum velocities are more like 1,000 - 1,500 fps depending on the projectile and caliber used, and the power setting.

GS

 

[Evil-Twin]

IM into air guns.. you may find this interesting,
http://www.pyramydair.com/article/_50_Caliber_Dragon_Slayer_Air_Rifle_December_2007/45

accurate air guns PCP, are in the 800 to 1000 fps range.
accurate = cutting a playing card in half slicing it in half via the thin edge.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...&mid=170DE7D9725B1010D9FF170DE7D9725B1010D9FF

Pellets will cavitate above super sonic speeds making them in very inaccurate.
by air gun competition standards..

air guns used at my gun club are in the 600 to 3500 dollar range.. scopes are in the 600 to 3500 dollar range... this is serious competitions..
of course serious air gunning is a sickness.
the guy with the camo hat is using a 2500 dollar rifle and a 3500 dollar Schmitt and Bender scope



a 20 dollar BB gun can be just as much fun.

High velocity air guns are used for close range hunting..

Air guns were used by some military forces in the late 1700's and early 1800's.

Some of my air guns
this gun has a left handed custom trigger



5 shots at each bull @ 50 yards






my left handed custom IZH air gun pistol



this is the Kevlar wrapped 4500 psi air tank (will fill my guns about 80 times ) cost to fill, 10 dollars at a local dive shop. my guns will accurately shoot about 40 shots per charge.



Stay with the BB gun and avoid the sickness.
Hope this helps

Bill aka ET

 

[gamestalker]

FYI, this isn't my sickness, this is something my Son has contracted. As for me, I get plenty of fun out of shooting my Walmart pellet guns, I wouldn't even consider dropping large piles of money on a pellet gun, they just don't do it for me. I like shooting guns that burn up fairly large quantities of smokeless gun powder.

I was just wondering what anyone might know about this Daystate PCP rifle.

GS

 

[Evil-Twin]

Daystate PCP are good accurate competitions guns.. we have a few members with them.. the crony right around 750 to 800 fps. regulated.,. .Its a highly respected brand name. They range in price from 800 dollars and up... but you can make one hole down range 50 yards with five shot groups...of course like most things, its more the gunner then it is the gun...

 

[jmorris]

It's not hog wash, this is a real deal big game air rifle. And these pellets weren't 7.9 grs., they were like 50 grains.... The tank can be charged to like 2,600 psi, he says 3K psi

There is a difference between velocity and PSI. A 3000 psi fill does not equal 3000 fps.

 

[GLOOB]

And these pellets weren't 7.9 grs., they were like 50 grains.

And a 50 grain bullet/pellet at 2500 fps would be beyond hogwash. That's 223 level. I think jmorris hit it on the head. A simple misunderstanding, perhaps.

There's a practical velocity limitation on air guns, due to the medium. Beyond a certain point, the air just can't keep up with itself. That's why the deer power airguns are shooting 30+ caliber heavy bullets ... still at subsonic speeds, and still around the energy of a powder burning service caliber handgun, at best.. An airgun can crack the sound barrier, but not by enough to make it practical. Barely breaking the sound barrier is severely limiting accurate range, because when the bullet drops below the sound barrier, it will encounter turbulence.

 

[jmorris]

I think the top end guys are using helium instead of air because they can get more velocity out of it vs air but still far from 3000 fps.

 

[Evil-Twin]

All high end competition air guns are regulated to be sub sonic... because above subsonic the pellet cavitates... 3500 dollar competition air guns shoot around 850 to 900 feet per sec.

 

[jmorris]

I was referring to top end power. High end 10 meter competition rifles are under 600 fps, with only .177 pellets.

http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Anschutz_9003_Premium_S2_Precise_Air_Rifle/2398

 

[Evil-Twin]

these were shot @ 850 fps....50 yards with five shots per bull.
you be hard pressed to come close to beating this target with a 1500 fps gun


My competition rifles crony at 850 fps
My 10 meter competition IZH pistol cronys at 500 fps

 

[gamestalker]

Ok, I got it at my house for the next several days, so will see what it can really do.

He gave me some 25 cal. cast bullets, says they stabilize at higher velocity. This afternoon he said it was shooting a raged hole at 50 yds. with the cast @ 990 fps.. He set a 2x4 against his wheel barrow to see if it would go all the way though. It went through the 2x4 and the wheel barrow.

I wanted him to put the 30 cal. barrel on it, but he doesn't have any cast bullets for that barrel yet.

I almost messed my pants when he told me what he spent on this thing, not counting the scope, just shy of $2500. No way I would spend that kind of money on an air gun, I could get into very nice Rem 700 for that kind of money. Oh well, different strokes, for different folks I guess.

GS

 

[jmorris]

Ok, I can believe 990 fps.

I can promise you there is a lot more work involved in building his rifle vs the 700. Think of the number of additional parts required on it vs the firing pin on a 700. Remember the rifle itself has to contain and deliver just enough of its contained pressure to push the projectile (and all the ones after the first) to the level the rifle is set at.

I agree that for the price of quality PCP rifles you can get very nice firearms, only problem with a firearm is that they won't run off air.

 

[WNTFW]

I would spend $2500 - $4000 on an air rifle before I would a rimfire.
I can shoot the air rifle more places, like my yard.

 

[ARW]

The initial cost of a quality air rifle is typically high but afterwards the cost to actually shoot them is low.

The pellets are very reasonable and if you have a PCP the cost of filling an air tank is usually well under $10.00.

Alan

 

[jmorris]

The initial cost of a quality air rifle is typically high but afterwards the cost to actually shoot them is low.

The pellets are very reasonable and if you have a PCP the cost of filling an air tank is usually well under $10.00.

That could be a bit misleading and I would suggest anyone considering a PCP to add up all the costs before buying anything. Also look at the price of the projectiles as well, .25 cal pellets run $10/200 +\- larger bores are more expensive.

An "air tank" and gauges/"fill" adapter can run in excess of $700. If your PCP requires a 3000 psi fill, your tank will need to be a 4500 psi carbon fiber tank that will need to be recertified every 5 years and cannot be filled after 15 years.

Some dive shops also cannot fill to 4500 psi so again call around first before you buy as it might not be as easy as it sounds to get one filled.

You can compress to 4500 psi yourself, entry level starts around $750 for a working compressor but they are quite slow, the next step up is over $1200.

Like anything there are ways to reduce costs on the above (like a hand pump or building things yourself) but before you get one put "it all" on paper.

 

[Pete D.]

analogy

subsonic speeds, and still around the energy of a powder burning service caliber handgun, at best.. An airgun can crack the sound barrier, but not by enough to make it practical.

The comparison to a powder burning handgun is a good one. As good is the comparison to some of the black powder firearms.
Back in the 19th century in Africa, when BP was the propellant, increases in velocity in smaller bores were not effective so they increased the bore size....this is where the 8 and four gauge muzzleloaders appeared. Low velocity but a very large projectile.
Similarly, for more power in air guns, the trend for more power is toward bigger bores as opposed to higher velocity. Bigger bores are, for good or ill, the realm of PCP guns.
The large bore guns are available in 9mm, .357, .458, .500.
The good news about feeding them is that you do not have to use specialized pellets....regular lead handgun bullets or lead round balls work perfectly well.
Years ago, I picked up a .45 cal PCP rifle. I use Hornady .457" lead round balls or swaged bullets that I cast for my 1911. Very much subsonic but in airgun terms very powerful. The LRBs have a MV of just over 700 fps and the 200 grain LSWCs clock at just over 600 fps. Energies are similar at about 160 ft.lbs.

 

[Bobson]

If your local dive shop can't fill to 4500psi, check the local paintball pro shop. 4500psi fills are pretty standard in paintball. In the last ten years, I haven't been to any pro shop or paintball field, in any state, that didn't have 4500psi fills available.

 

[jmorris]

This website is pretty good for locating places that can fill to 4500, there are many that do not and some that say they do offend fall a few hundred PSI shy.

http://www.warpig.com/forums/fields/index.shtml