De-mil 45 powder?

[jonas66]

Just got 5lbs of generic pistol powder from American Reloading.
I know it's a bit of a gamble, but it seemed like fun for a good price.
Came to $18.40 total per lb shipped.

I'm sure many of you have seen the ad:

".45 ACP Pistol Powder #6
(De-mil)
Charge: 5.0 gr
Proj.: 230 gr FMJ
Avg Vel.: 850
Avg. pressure: 21245"

Anybody know anything about this stuff?

It's supposed to be de-mil shotgun powder.
It looks and smells -exactly- like Unique. (I know, I know... I'm just saying...)

That pressure number seems like it's up there at the high end.
They don't tell you what the pressure unit is, though I suspect a higher number like that indicates PSI rather than CUP.
Plus, who measured it, and how?

Googling has so far revealed almost nothing.
I know their "Midwest Powder" line is a re-distributor of commercial overrun powder, but I don't know where they get the de-mil stuff.

So I figured I'd ask about it here first, and if no one has anything, then:

--email ARL and see what they say
--take macro photos of it and of Unique for comparison
--finally buy a chronograph
--run ladders out of my 1911 for info and comparison to Unique

Goals: I'd like to use this for target 45 and 9, plus a variety of 12 and 20 ga loads with cast buckshot and maybe slugs...

If nothing else I can pop a piece of visco thru the cap for a $92 New Year's display...

Thoughts?

ETA:
(It's late, gotta sleep. I'll post pics tomorrow.)

 

[jm529]

5.0gr of powder pushing a 230gr bullet to 850fps seems like a lot faster powder than Unique. It seems more like a Bullseye load.

 

[jonas66]

jm529- yeah, you're right. I was just struck by the close resemblance.
Alliant shows 5.8 for 849fp with a LRN.
I'm certainly not saying it -is- Unique, but I am curious as to what it is and what I can do with it.

 

[reddog81]

5.0gr of powder pushing a 230gr bullet to 850fps seems like a lot faster powder than Unique. It seems more like a Bullseye load.

That’s the first thing I thought when reading the OP. 5 grains would be a target load for Unique with closer to 6 grains being a full strength load.

 

[jonas66]

But as I said- who did the testing for that powder for ARL? I wonder where that data comes from.

--geez, I really have to get to bed.

I'm looking forward to see what ARL has to say.

 

[Charlie98]

I have and run the shilen because of their ease of instilation on a savage.

".45 ACP Pistol Powder #6
(De-mil)
Charge: 5.0 gr
Proj.: 230 gr FMJ
Avg Vel.: 850
Avg. pressure: 21245"

It takes nearly 6.5grn Unique to get 850fps with a 230grn FMJ bullet. I would agree that it's something a bit faster...

 

[AJC1]

Sounds close to hp-38 or accurate #2

 

[EMC45]

I was thinking Bullseye as well.

 

[gwpercle]

As far as I'm concerned ... handgun powder without a lot of tested and published data is just about worthless .
Like having 10 pounds of Alcan #5 ... when's the last time you saw data for Alcan #5 ...1975 !
I'm lucky ... I collect reloading manuals ... Speer #8 , #9 and #10 have lots of Alcan data that I still use ... especially in these powder shortages we keep having .
But the truth is ... you need tested data for a powder and more than just ...one load ...
Unless all you reload is 45 acp / 230 gr.fmj and nothing else !
Gary

 

[AJC1]

As far as I'm concerned ... handgun powder without a lot of tested and published data is just about worthless .
Like having 10 pounds of Alcan #5 ... when's the last time you saw data for Alcan #5 ...1975 !
I'm lucky ... I collect reloading manuals ... Speer #8 , #9 and #10 have lots of Alcan data that I still use ... especially in these powder shortages we keep having .
But the truth is ... you need tested data for a powder and more than just ...one load ...
Unless all you reload is 45 acp / 230 gr.fmj and nothing else !
Gary

Having one data point on one chambering is ruff. I'm not willing to take that leap.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Depending on how old ammo/loads are they demilled it *could* be DuPont Pistol Powder #6.




The amount and velocity is right.

 

[LiveLife]

Just got 5lbs of generic pistol powder from American Reloading.

Depending on how old ammo/loads are they demilled it *could* be DuPont Pistol Powder #6.

I don't think American Reloading is selling "DuPont #6". https://americanreloading.com/265-reloading-pistol-powder

This one does say "No 6" - https://americanreloading.com/reloa...49-45acp-pistol-powder-no-6-demil-10-lbs.html

But why fuss with demil powders when you can buy 8 lbs of HP-38 (Same exact powder as W231) for $212? - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ead-link-required.910908/page-2#post-12428447

I guess 10 lbs for $220 with free shipping/HazMat may be the reason?

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I don't think American Reloading is selling "DuPont #6". https://americanreloading.com/265-reloading-pistol-powder

This one does say "No 6" - https://americanreloading.com/reloa...49-45acp-pistol-powder-no-6-demil-10-lbs.html

But why fuss with demil powders when you can buy 8 lbs of HP-38 (Same exact powder as W231) for $212? - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ead-link-required.910908/page-2#post-12428447

I guess 10 lbs for $220 with free shipping/HazMat may be the reason?

It’s not mine. I didn't ask the question, I attempted to answer it.

 

[LiveLife]

I attempted to answer it.

5 gr of charge for 230 gr bullet does put the burn rate comparable to other powders we use for 45ACP loads.

It's good to have options in life.

For me it's 4.0 gr of Promo for my 230 gr 45ACP loads.

 

[AJC1]

I don't think American Reloading is selling "DuPont #6". https://americanreloading.com/265-reloading-pistol-powder

This one does say "No 6" - https://americanreloading.com/reloa...49-45acp-pistol-powder-no-6-demil-10-lbs.html

But why fuss with demil powders when you can buy 8 lbs of HP-38 (Same exact powder as W231) for $212? - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ead-link-required.910908/page-2#post-12428447

I guess 10 lbs for $220 with free shipping/HazMat may be the reason?

When bulk powders were less than half the price of the cheapest canister powder it had appeal. Two or three dollars a pound off is a hard pass.

 

[Rule3]

https://americanreloading.com/reloa...49-45acp-pistol-powder-no-6-demil-10-lbs.html


You can not ID a powder by looking at or smelling it.


Flake Shotgun Powder from Demil that works in 45ACP. Powder is clean and tested with the data below. Please DO NOT ask for additional load data.



Caliber – 45ACP

Charge – 5.0 gr

Bullet – 230gr FMJ

Avg. Velocity – 850 fps

Avg. Pressure - 21245

Work up all loads minus 10%

 

[bltmonty]

I bought version #1 45 acp from American reloading. the advertised load data is a low, but it's very good powder--consistent velocities, accurate, and easy to meter.

 

[higgite]

So I figured I'd ask about it here first, and if no one has anything, then:

--email ARL and see what they say
.
.

I hope they give you more info, but they do say this in the description... "Please DO NOT ask for additional load data."

 

[mdi]

A "classic" 45 ACP load is 230 FMJ over 5.0 gr Bullseye averaging 850 (or so) fps from a 5" barrel. I have some surplus powder, but before I pushed the "buy it now" button I found load data (BR-5 and WC820 are my favorites). The "Please DO NOT ask for additional load data" is, for me, a red flag, meaning they don't know or care much about what they are selling. Nope not for me...

 

[illinoisburt]

From what I've gathered their demil powders could be from just about anywhere. Frankly any pulldown is just as likely to be a canister rather than a specific identifiable one. Their limited data can at least give you a place to start with a burn chart and follow standard ladder tests at 10% under then work up. A chronograph would be useful and I wouldn't be using it to push max limits. The only real downside I see is if it works well you have no way to ensure obtaining another matched lot so load development has to start over from scratch with ever buy. Still for middle-of-the-road plinkers it should be just fine, especially at that price.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Came to $18.40 total per lb shipped.

The only real downside I see is if it works well you have no way to ensure obtaining another matched lot so load development has to start over from scratch with ever buy. Still for middle-of-the-road plinkers it should be just fine, especially at that price.

If it really is Pistol No.6 it’s at least 60 years old. I’m not sure exactly when service contract .45ACP was loaded with No.6 but it had to have been between 1933 and 1965. 1933 is when the powder was developed and approved (wasn’t available to civilians until 1937) and it was discontinued in 1961, with probably four or five years worth in the pipeline. Just my opinion but that’s a bit high price for powder that could be anywhere from 60 to 90 years old and stored who knows how, who knows where. Could be great, could be ready for the campfire.

 

[Jim Watson]

I doubt it is DuPont No 6.
Sharpe shows top loads of No 6 for 230 gr .45 ACP as 3.8-4.0 grains.
The vendor also advertises a No 7 of different burn rate, I think he is just making up designations.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I doubt it is DuPont No 6.
Sharpe shows top loads of No 6 for 230 gr .45 ACP as 3.8-4.0 grains.
The vendor also advertises a No 7 of different burn rate, I think he is just making up designations.

Okay. Probably not. Typically I’m wrong about these things. But why completely ignore the page I posted from the Ideal No. 40 (1955) showing a range from 4.7-5.1gr for Pistol No.6? Just curious.

 

[Jim Watson]

Just missed it, I reckon.

Sad day when DuPont quit making specific pistol powders. 5066 was said to be good stuff.

 

[jonas66]

Seems I have some catching up to do...

Depending on how old ammo/loads are they demilled it *could* be DuPont Pistol Powder #6.

Well holy carp I hope it's not that! <<< How old is that anyway?
ETA: (nvm, saw that answer a few posts later...)

I guess 10 lbs for $220 with free shipping/HazMat may be the reason?

It was $92.00 for 5lbs, shipped, no other taxes or fees, hazmat included. Came to $18.40 /lb delivered.

And since it's a de-miled shotgun powder, I thought there might be some overlap there for me with 12 and 20 ga. There are more than a couple of shotgun powders which are used for target pistol loads, that's common. I use several as it is.

I bought version #1 45 acp from American reloading. the advertised load data is a low, but it's very good powder--consistent velocities, accurate, and easy to meter.

Thanks for that info bitmonty- IIRC, (?) -- that one was listed at lower avg pressure than the one I got, for around the same velocity.

The "Please DO NOT ask for additional load data" is, for me, a red flag, meaning they don't know or care much about what they are selling. Nope not for me...

I do appreciate the need for caution. I will proceed accordingly.

...follow standard ladder tests at 10% under then work up. A chronograph would be useful and I wouldn't be using it to push max limits. The only real downside I see is if it works well you have no way to ensure obtaining another matched lot so load development has to start over from scratch with ever buy.

I will be buying a chrono, finally, and running ladders.
The powder will be used for target rounds, practice-- so I'm not burning up Bullseye, or hs-6 ...or worse, my dwindling supply of 3n37 or n310.

I'm not a great shot, maybe a passable one...so trigger time by itself is valuable.

...Plus, I have to admit-- I'm still kicking myself for not hogging up on the dirt cheap Vectan powders Graf's was selling for like $9 or $10 per lb on sale or whatever it was back in early 2020...I waited and waited and then they were gone and everything hit the fan...and those $115 5,000 pc cases of Unis Ginex primers....

Yeah, I may be suffering from a bit of FOMO.

ETA-- I haven't emailed ARL yet, and I wouldn't be asking them about load data, --rather about any info they might have on what the product is and where it came from when. Manufacturer, distributor, date, what have you. It does have a lot #, but I don't know who assigned it that or why.